Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Dkjester"

if this were true rogues would have been nerfed back to the stone age. With all the complaining about that, you would think if we had any influence at all they woulda been nerfed already. So therefore that logic is false.

It was nerfed because I think that is was a spammable, only GCD, longest range, high dmg skill which was OP in siege. It would be like if they let mages spam Fireball..... most instant spells have a cool down, unless they are DoTs. So IB being an instant with no cool down was NOT in line with other instant dmg spells. It is just that plain and simple. That is the reason I think it was "adjusted".

Priests without IB were able to hunt just fine, and still can. Saying that giving IB a cooldown made it unplayable, is completely false. There are other damaging skills for priests that kill just fine. No, you are upset cause you liked IB being a long range, no cd, high dmg spell for pvp. The fact that pretty much EVERY priest picked up /s for IB is quantitative proof to it being out of line with other balance. I had a few friends that picked up /s specifically for siege, and cause they knew it was OP.

IB not having a cool down is completely contradictory to every other instant damaging spell in the game. Face it, it deserved a cooldown JUST LIKE ICEWINDBLADE. Why should ICEBLADE not have a CD, but the /m ICEWINDBLADE does? Plain and simple... it needed it, it got it.... Deal with it.

lol at this statement this one defintly has never played a priest.
HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE THIS SKILL WAS NEVER OP UNLESS YOU GEARED FOR IT.
try gearing a rogue with pdef and see how hard it hits.
and for the record i di deal with it and i can still get 100 kills in sw the only difference is now there are way more 1 shots than ever before.
mr jester plz see my above post regarding damage ..........ITS ALL IN THE GEAR AND STATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOT THE SKILL
bottom line is dps classes could not stand getting beat in pvp by a priest.
it makes no difference what any of us say it is the way it is and it will not change but when hide gets a cooldown i will rofl all the way say well suck it up buttercup.
just like every m/w flippin to w/m ?
im done arguing with people that have zero logic skills.

Quoted from "Dkjester"

if this were true rogues would have been nerfed back to the stone age. With all the complaining about that, you would think if we had any influence at all they woulda been nerfed already. So therefore that logic is false.

It was nerfed because I think that is was a spammable, only GCD, longest range, high dmg skill which was OP in siege. It would be like if they let mages spam Fireball..... most instant spells have a cool down, unless they are DoTs. So IB being an instant with no cool down was NOT in line with other instant dmg spells. It is just that plain and simple. That is the reason I think it was "adjusted".

Priests without IB were able to hunt just fine, and still can. Saying that giving IB a cooldown made it unplayable, is completely false. There are other damaging skills for priests that kill just fine. No, you are upset cause you liked IB being a long range, no cd, high dmg spell for pvp. The fact that pretty much EVERY priest picked up /s for IB is quantitative proof to it being out of line with other balance. I had a few friends that picked up /s specifically for siege, and cause they knew it was OP.

IB not having a cool down is completely contradictory to every other instant damaging spell in the game. Face it, it deserved a cooldown JUST LIKE ICEWINDBLADE. Why should ICEBLADE not have a CD, but the /m ICEWINDBLADE does? Plain and simple... it needed it, it got it.... Deal with it.

It doesn't matter if it's spammable if it's the only instant skill they have that does any damage. M/wdn has enough hard hitting instants that if they rotate them they are never running out either so it's exactly the same, only not really, because M/wdn skills have higher range and hit harder than Ice Blade. But yet IB was the OP one.

You like to complain about the range, but the truth is it's far from the highest range skill. Nearly all of M/wdn skills are higher range than Ice Blade, some by up to 50M difference. It really wasn't that long ranged. And any other class that knew how to play had no trouble taking out the Priest/Scout's. Cause P/S's were pretty much all one/two shots for any decent dps class. They weren't unkillable.. just like the melee classes weren't unkillable. Balance! Shocker!

Hm.. just like IWB. You do realize the differences between the P/S and the P/M correct? Like the fact that Icewind Blade hits TWICE, and also the fact that they have two other hard hitting instants that they can use while that cooldown is up? And that they have utility skills like Silence and lightning? Not to mention Freeze. Unlike P/S, who only has IB then can basically kite around in a circle for 3 seconds while they wait for it to come back up. Anyone who brings up IWB in an argument for nerfing IB is an idiot. Personal attack removed -- Kalvan

Make Ice Blade hit twice and give P/S two instant skills and a 5 second silence and a 10 second freeze skill, then the nerf can be called justified. Until then, quit comparing P/M and P/S for why it needed a cooldown.

No, iceblade wasn't op.. until you used it in siege. The fact it had no travel time combined with the terrible siege servers generally meant that nine times out of ten you got hit by some priest/scout camping in an invis tower and eyes before you even knew you entered combat.

I do agree p/s needs its elites revamped, just putting a 3s cd on one troublesome skill and calling it a day was lazy at best. They may as well make Ice blade passive that turns rising tide into an instant cast like m/p or wl/p, and give them at least one or two other spells to rotate through.

Quoted

HERE IS THE BOTTOM LINE THIS SKILL WAS NEVER OP UNLESS YOU GEARED FOR IT.

More or less, but it wasn't the pure mage statting p/s that were the problem, nor the healer statted ones. It was the hybrids - the ones that stacked just enough matk to lay people out in 2 hits or less (since who stacks mdef) and the rest of their gear gave them enough HP and defense to live through dumb low-blow spamming rogues. Also since they were in hybrid statted healer gear, they could usually heal themselves to full in 2 urgent heals, making them a one-man killing machine.
Not to mention there was no way to counter it without stacking enough mdef to make it so you gimped yourself in every other way. Sure a healer could withstand ice blades from an equal geared p/s all day, but there wasn't much they could do to retaliate unless they waited for the other guy to run out of mp, lol.

Ugh.

Can we just stop rubbing in how people on this forum killed the P/S class combo and stop beating the dead horse already?

Runewaker already "fixed" it. There's no need to discuss it. There is a huge ~36 page thread about the "discussions".

Close this thread of whines and tears already

/\ that is the point I was making, which obviously irked a whole buncha people.

But let me clarify a few things:

1) I do play a p/s, I played my g/f p/s which was geared for dmg, and I played BOTH our p/k/s, which were geared for healing. NONE OF THEM HAVE TROUBLE HUNTING!!! NONE!

2) I am not whining/complaining, I was not one that had anything to do with complaining about IB before it was nerfed. I only voiced my opinion AFTER it was nerfed.

3) Yes, lots of M/W switching to W/M, I expect to see a bigger nerf coming that way. So how is that an argument? Just like all the S/R that switched to R/S, or all the P/S now switching to R/S, I expect to see a nerf there.

4) IWB has the same cooldown. Yes it hits twice, only one of those hits are affected by the mastery.. Right? so it isn't double the dmg. Infact the point that IWB has a 3 second cool down and IB has a 3 second cool down... seems equal? RIGHT? Just cause mage gets other skills from picking /m... that is like arguing how skills on a R/W needs to be adjusted cause r/s gets shot..... Which lets not forget how /s got nerfed with the shot nerf... cause it was outside of the line with other game mechanics... which brings me to...

5) no one addressed that IB was the ONLY direct dmg instant spell without a cooldown. That right there proves that it needed one. EVERY other direct dmg instant spell has a cool down. Plain and simple

6) mr jester plz see my above post regarding damage ..........ITS ALL IN THE GEAR AND STATS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
NOT THE SKILL .... wait... isn't EVERYTHING thing in this game about gear and stats? So why cry about your IB getting nerfed if it is ALL GEAR AND NOT SKILL. Your arguments are just not cutting it.

At the end of it all. IB didn't have a cool down like all other direct dmg instant spells. That made it out of line with all other classes. Why did you all roll a p/s? was it just for iceblade? Cause that is all I am hearing... Cause if you rolled a p/s for ANY other reason, a nerf to that one skill would not cause such an uproar. Now for you to switch to a class specifically for JUST ONE SKILL. That should tell you something about that one skill, that it is enough for you to think to roll a whole class around a SINGLE skill. When that skill then gets "adjusted", you freak out.... That speaks volumes about that skill. More than any of your denying it, fighting against it, threats to quit, etc. That one skill was enough for you to play that class... Even W/M has 3 skills that make it good, not just one. Rogues, more than one... P/S you picked for ONE skill. I warned people I knew that it was gonna get nerfed cause it didn't have a CD... they didn't listen. They told me EXACT QUOTE:

"They may nerf it, but it is so OP right now I gotta have it"

Literally someone I know on Artemis told me exactly that. I know of at least 10 other people on Artemis that told me at some point that they were rolling P/S JUST cause IB was OP. They were characters in high end guilds, that took them no time to level/gear that character. Then when it got nerfed... they quickly moved to the next OP class. There are some on this forum here, that I remember being a scout, when scouts were OP, scouts got nerfed, they chose to go p/s, they not nerfed, and are now working to get a rogue.... Some people just gotta chase the classes with the advantages instead of playing what they like. If you are gonna do that, you gotta be a man and move on when they fix it. Ill be smiling at all the Rogues wanting to quit when they nerf them and then smiling again at all the w/ms that wanna quit when they get nerfed. If you play a class and think "man this is so awesome, ill never play anything else"... don't be shocked when It gets nerfed... rules of MMOs number 1.

Fireball- cooldown
lightning bolt- cooldown
Rising tide M/P- Cooldown
IWB- Cooldown
Magma Blade- Cooldown
Earth Surge- Cooldown
Earth Groaning wind blade- cooldown
Phoenix- Cooldown
ThunderSword- Cooldown
Rockslide- cooldown
Earth pulse- Cooldown
Mother Earths Wrath- cooldown
Stars of light- cooldown
Light Charge- cooldown


Iceblade- no cooldown.......

That doesn't seem outta place? That is why it got changed, deal

Funny a noob crying about a 70/70 elite that has a 2min CD only good for 5 seconds please go learn to play your class before you come QQ on forums

Quoted from "myraged"

Funny a noob crying about a 70/70 elite that has a 2min CD only good for 5 seconds please go learn to play your class before you come QQ on forums

3 min CD on m/wdn elite, and also m/r cursed fangs is instant, no CD...but the difference with cursed fangs is it relies on energy, which tends to dry up quickly. i really wish RW would have just changed IB to use focus, it would have been a much more elegant solution imo...

if p/s wants the elite to be like m/wd that's fine (I may even start playing mine again), but as a m/wd I want a 5 sec immune to all damage skill.....and hide, hide is op

Let me hand a clue to those who think that a P/S using Ice Blades is equivalent to a P/M using Icewind Blade...

As things currently stand, Ice Blades can be used every three seconds. This includes the GCD and the built-in 3 second cooldown. The only other viable attack that a P/S has is Rising Tide, which has a 2 second cast time. (I am not allowing for pots or elites that may mitigate casting times here.) Bone Chill? Oh yeah, that's a real biggie. Not.

I just know that some fool will bring up Chain of Light. Lemme tell you something--i was in siege last night on my P/S and an opposing Priest attacked me with...you guessed it, Chain of Light. It did minimal damage to me, did not interrupt my RT cast (on another target), and once I cast RT I hit the target a second time with IB. Killed it, and then a Rogue hit me with Low Blow and killed me.

Chain of Light does light damage. Priests do not have any other light-based skills or Light Mastery. All of their damage boosts are water-based.

So much for the other "viable" attacks that Priests have.

Now, let's see, how many viable instants does a P/M have?

Icewind Blade
Fireball
Lightning
Silence

Silence doesn't do any damage, but if it happens to hit and stick, the P/S is generally screwed.

Only foolish people will say that a P/S cannot quest effectively. They can, they just need to be smart about it with the limited "rotation" that they have. Fools also argue that a Priest is a healer and should stay in the kitchen and heal. Preferably barefooted and, if female, pregnant.

But the bigger fools are the ones who complained that IB was "overpowered". It wasn't, but they were limiting their complaints purely to PvP/Siege War. The large majority of them were Rogues, or were other melee DPS players, and used no MDef stats. They whined and complained loud and long about it and, well, the squeaky square wheels got the grease, and the P/S players got (and continue to be ) greased. As in turned into grease spots in PvP/Siege War.

In the mean time, Rogues and other melee DPS have...wait for it...gotten even more powerful. This makes them happy that they can burst burn instance bosses and 1 or 2 shot other players (those with little PDef, such as the P/S or most Mage combos) in PvP/Siege War.

I'm not happy with RW's having made the P/S far less viable in PvP/Siege War. Not at all. But I do what I can to make up for it. Being a "support" player that farms balloons and, occasionally, tower guards, isn't particularly "glamorous", and I can do some healing in Siege War. I';m only a fair healer in instances, though I do have some "healer gear". It helps, but I can't afford to find and tier up a healer-specific staff. Sucks to be me, I guess.

Every so often, I manage to kill one of those DPS characters who have almost completely ignored MDef. (Yeah, there is that stuff floating around. Mages, Druids, and other Priests usually have a ton of it. Even before the IB nerf, I had the most difficult time killing other spellcasters. Believe me, if a Mage lives long enough to Flame me, I'm toast.)

Last word: Nerfing a skill or class is never the answer. Balancing is. RW doesn't know how to balance skills or classes.

I actually think that was a great, thought out and constructive addition to this.

I would say Overpowered is not the right term to use, unbalanced is better. I agreed on the 36 page discussion that a focus cost would have been a better solution which would pull it in line with other skills in the game. It was however unbalanced that it did not require focus, nor had a cool down, that is the point I am making. The only other skills without a cool down, have an energy cost. IB was unbalanced, whether you believe it was OP or not.

I am glad someone else has said how PvE this change did not ruin the class, I applaud you for saying since so many here will not.

Yes PVP it ruined it. Which is why I supported the focus change to the skill. However, this was not what people were asking for here. No one else has brought up making it spammable and put a focus cost, they merely asked for the spammable part. Which is why I was making my argument that the nerf was needed, since it was unbalanced.

Of course it didn't ruin the class for PvE. But it DID destroy the class to being completely unviable. ANY class can be viable to quest.. I mean let's be serious here. W/P and W/D can quest, but is anyone going to argue that those classes are just fine because they can quest? No. Priest/Scout was made absolutely useless for the parts of the game that actually matter.. not the day and a half it takes to hit level cap.

Quoted from "Dkjester"

Fireball- cooldown
lightning bolt- cooldown
Rising tide M/P- Cooldown
IWB- Cooldown
Magma Blade- Cooldown
Earth Surge- Cooldown
Earth Groaning wind blade- cooldown
Phoenix- Cooldown
ThunderSword- Cooldown
Rockslide- cooldown
Earth pulse- Cooldown
Mother Earths Wrath- cooldown
Stars of light- cooldown
Light Charge- cooldown


Iceblade- no cooldown.......

That doesn't seem outta place? That is why it got changed, deal

Let's talk about how many of those skills you just listed are all on one class. Since you seem to be unable to grasp the point of P/S having nothing else to rotate with after Ice Blade unlike every single other class you listed.

Mage/Knight: Fireball, Lightning, Stars of Light, Light Charge, Magic Tricks. All hit fairly equally and are a viable amount of damage. Let's not forget Magic Tricks actually has no GCD so it's basically a free skill that actually hits harder than the rest of those. That makes 5. On top of the rest of the utility mages get in Discharge, Thunderstorm, Etc. Oh yeah.. Mage/Knight also has Enhanced Armor.. so they're gonna be even more durable than a P/S 99% of the time!

Mage/Priest: Magic Tricks, Rising Tide, Fireball, Lightning. I count 4. All can be rotated through to nearly never run out of instants. On top of the utility mages get with Discharge, Thunderstorm, ETc. Oh did I mention they also get a 30% hp shield AND the 5 second immune you all complain about from a Priest/Scout? Yeah.

Mage/Warden: Fireball, Lightning, Earth Surge, Earth Groaning Wind Blade(Hits twice), Magic Tricks. That would be 5 instants. 6 if you count the fact that EGWB hits twice. Oh yeah and fireball can erupt. Oh right and their fireball is a second shorter of a cooldown. The big boy on the block. Longer range than any other magic damage dealing class in the game, AND enough instants that they will never under any circumstances run out of something to use. Plus pdef from briar. You're right though damn those P/S's and their one 200 range skill that hits once!

Mage/Druid: Fireball, Lightning, Magma Blade (Hits twice), Magic Tricks. 4 instants. Quite a bit more still than P/S and about on par with M/P. No immune but they get an extra hit on magma blade and a harder healing heal as well as other benefits. Hm. Now would you look at that. At minimum, a mage has at LEAST 4 instants to rotate through, though really if you count the fact that Thunderstorm is an instant ranged spammable they will NEVER run out of things to use. Ever. P/S uses iceblade and has... bonechill and frost scars. That 4 damage is real OP.

That's at minimum 4 instants to rotate through. On top of skills like discharge, silence, thunderstorm. And really with thunderstorm you're never not going to have something to use, since there's no cooldown on that. And it's an AoE so hey you can actually hit several people! While under an HP bubble or in M/P's case an immune.


If you really honestly still don't understand how UN-OP Ice Blade was and how little it actually needed the nerf.. i'm really not sure there's anything else to say.

Yes PVP it ruined it. Which is why I supported the focus change to the skill. However, this was not what people were asking for here. No one else has brought up making it spammable and put a focus cost, they merely asked for the spammable part. Which is why I was making my argument that the nerf was needed, since it was unbalanced.[/quote]

hmmmmm wasnt there a rather large thread about how to fix iceblade??????? so your comment about making it spammable and not asking for a focus cost is moot.
What could they do to fix the Priest/Scout!!!!!!!!
i refer you to a 19 page thread.

I'm not going to debate over whether Ice Blade was OP or not, but I did
have some things I felt like commenting on. I'm not sure comparing a
priest to other offensive classes is viable. If we asked other RoM
players what the role of a priest is, I am willing to bet a majority of
players would say, "healer." Hmmm, a healer does not have as many
instant attacks as a mage does.. does not seem so odd to me. How about
instead of comparing the amount of instant attacks and rotations a
priest has vs. a mage, why don't you compare it to a druid/x? Is it
because that a elf healer vs. human healer is apple an oranges? Wait,
but comparing a healers offensive ability to a mages offensive ability
isn't?


I haven't played many mmorpg games that have had healers
with offensive rotations and could be a killing class. Now if you wanna
tell me that a pvp battle against a healer ended up taking an hour to
finish... ok, i beleive that. Healers heal and bring people back to life, mages cast magic that
hurts things, Knights and the like hit you in the mouth and hurt
you, Rogues and the like are stealthy, Scouts/rangers and the like are
range. Why is this even a topic of debate?! If you want to hurt
something, don't be a healer.A healer lost an offensive skill and is no longer
killing folks in a guild war, are you high?! Yes, but even being uber
roasted I am not willing to advise someone who wants to play a toon that
kills to ever be a healer.. and this does not just apply to RoM. So
what is this whole conversation about again? Oh yeah, a healer is trying
to compare it's offensive attacking to a mage. 0.0


[sarcasm] Don't get me started on
comparing my mage healing rotations and buffs against the different
healers, DUDE, I can't go through a healing/buff rotation like a healer
does.. RoM failed!! And, don't even get me started on my mage
rez.[/sarcasm]

Quoted from "Teebird"

I'm not going to debate over whether Ice Blade was OP or not, but I did
have some things I felt like commenting on. I'm not sure comparing a
priest to other offensive classes is viable. If we asked other RoM
players what the role of a priest is, I am willing to bet a majority of
players would say, "healer." Hmmm, a healer does not have as many
instant attacks as a mage does.. does not seem so odd to me. How about
instead of comparing the amount of instant attacks and rotations a
priest has vs. a mage, why don't you compare it to a druid/x? Is it
because that a elf healer vs. human healer is apple an oranges? Wait,
but comparing a healers offensive ability to a mages offensive ability
isn't?


I haven't played many mmorpg games that have had healers
with offensive rotations and could be a killing class. Now if you wanna
tell me that a pvp battle against a healer ended up taking an hour to
finish... ok, i beleive that. Healers heal and bring people back to life, mages cast magic that
hurts things, Knights and the like hit you in the mouth and hurt
you, Rogues and the like are stealthy, Scouts/rangers and the like are
range. Why is this even a topic of debate?! If you want to hurt
something, don't be a healer.A healer lost an offensive skill and is no longer
killing folks in a guild war, are you high?! Yes, but even being uber
roasted I am not willing to advise someone who wants to play a toon that
kills to ever be a healer.. and this does not just apply to RoM. So
what is this whole conversation about again? Oh yeah, a healer is trying
to compare it's offensive attacking to a mage. 0.0


[sarcasm] Don't get me started on
comparing my mage healing rotations and buffs against the different
healers, DUDE, I can't go through a healing/buff rotation like a healer
does.. RoM failed!! And, don't even get me started on my mage
rez.[/sarcasm]

Aah the classic "priests are healers get in your place" argument. Original. If you've never played a game that has offensive healing classes.. you haven't played many games have you? How about the most popular game in the MMO genre right now? No?

The whole point of this game is that it's versatile. You can gear one way or the other. Wardens can gear to be tanks or dps. Warriors can gear to be tanks or dps. Why can't a Priest gear to be a dps or a healer? If they choose to gear for dps and basically give up 99% of their healing ability they should not be punished for that. Especially when several parts of the class point to them being a dps/healer hybrid. Matk buff, iceblade, rt buff, water fairy that specifically does nothing for heals but increases damage. Etc.

"You're a healer get over it" is about as logical and makes about as much sense as "You're a woman get back in the kitchen". Same concept, different situation.

Ok, so we seem to be on the same page then. I interpret your post to read: "Teebird, you are repeating what has been said a million times and i think you are noob."
Now if you can interpret my reply: "Borella, if you're going to play a healer and find out that there just isn't that many attacks to use, it does not surprise me nor is it unordinary."


This is where I recognize you and I have a difference of opinions; which is not uncommon, and I can agree to disagree while still recognizing you as a solid source for RoM advice.

Quoted from "Teebird"

Scouts/rangers and the like are
range.

obviously you haven't learned that RoM is NOT like other mmorpgs...with this statement alone...

...and with your one statement I can tell you have failed to recognize the difference between being specific and speaking in generalities. I'm not saying you fail, I'm not trying to needle you, I'm not trying to take you down a level, nor am I trying to put myself in any sort of light.. Just saying that you may be reading a bit too much in to that whopping 6 words you quoted from me. Especially, when I was generally speaking.

yes, but scout doesn't fulfill it's class role...so priest doesn't have to either...

and yeah, i'm a butthurt scout who needs attention, what u gonna do about it? i can QQ all day...

Yes, you can (I can't, i don't have a scout so I don't share your pain.)

I agree scout has been mutilated in this game and some things are really unbalanced, they should fix that. My main point is that even with RoM being outside the box, it still should not be a surprise that a healer has limited attack ability. I am very noob to the forum, the last thing i need to do is pizz off some of the regulars here that post really good stuff. I mean no disrespect to you or Borella, especially, when you folks have the RoM experience you have. But, I feel like it shouldn't be too far fetched to compare a healer to another healer... How is the P/S combo vs the P/K attack wise? Does the P/K have more offense than the P/S, does the P/K have a 4 instant rotation, is the P/S the only priest lacking this skill rotation?