Runes of Magic US / AU

highest range ive seen that i can recall is 250 so if you want to increase detection to 300, how about just changing it to a passive skill that is always on and the range is as far as the player has their view distance set to

so pretty much anything they can see on their screen detection will cover, but then again they would be able to see every single player in an invis tower in siege before any other class sees them on their screen, making invis towers completely useless for all classes and just another wasted function in siege (not sure if they can see defenses inside invis towers or not though)

reducing the range of throw is the most logical answer that will have the least impact on other features/aspects of the game..

Before you try to come up with some pvp excuse remember i dont play a rogue or scout

300 is a nice number because you can't see rogues sneaking around, planning/infiltrating across the map, but you won't get caught by surprise either...

and for passive: it costs focus/sec, so its a nice feature to be able to turn on/off at will

Quoted from "karmakarma"

highest range ive seen that i can recall is 250 so if you want to increase detection to 300, how about just changing it to a passive skill that is always on and the range is as far as the player has their view distance set to

so pretty much anything they can see on their screen detection will cover, but then again they would be able to see every single player in an invis tower in siege before any other class sees them on their screen, making invis towers completely useless for all classes and just another wasted function in siege (not sure if they can see defenses inside invis towers or not though)

reducing the range of throw is the most logical answer that will have the least impact on other features/aspects of the game..

Before you try to come up with some pvp excuse remember i dont play a rogue or scout

Wait what? you want scouts to see rogues in hide but not invis towers? this is the point where i really just say you are all a bunch of whiney...

I want to see invis towers too...really the only reason to bring scouts into seige lol, just to clear out towers after the rest of the guild cleared out all the players...

if it was passive it wouldnt have a focus cost, however still a range higher than 250 would give the scout to be able to see others in invis towers while still out of range of even the furthest ranged attack which is 250, mages only 250 skill is flame so thats not the issue, not even a skill worth trying to cast in siege lol, not sure what other classes have skills maxed at 250 either, but if detection did finally get a range increase then 250 would be the right spot to place it.

when thinking of increasing 1 skill or decreasing another i am trying to think of the pros and cons of both sides to it...

the main ones i think of below...

INCREASING DETECTION RANGE
PRO -- they would be somewhat of a scout class again even though they still need alot more work done
CON -- the effect it would have on Invis towers in siege (not being able to hide defenses or players well enough to get the scouts in range thus causing people to cry hacks all night)

DECREASING THROW/COMBO THROW
PRO -- scouts would be able to use detect as it is without any major drawbacks affecting both siege and the general rogue class isnt going to break (if it wasnt used before it got buffed then a slightly shorter range wont screw anything up)
CON -- rogues might take damage from time to time by scouts and other various mobs in the game instead of being another ranged melee class (not speaking of any specific rogue class combos, just rogue in general)

...

if rogues were meant to rely on only ranged skills they wouldnt hit so hard with a dagger

and i think scouts should see inside invis towers, just not at a range that no other class in the game has

Quoted from "karmakarma"

if it was passive it wouldnt have a focus cost, however still a range higher than 250 would give the scout to be able to see others in invis towers while still out of range of even the furthest ranged attack which is 250, mages only 250 skill is flame so thats not the issue, not even a skill worth trying to cast in siege lol, not sure what other classes have skills maxed at 250 either, but if detection did finally get a range increase then 250 would be the right spot to place it.

when thinking of increasing 1 skill or decreasing another i am trying to think of the pros and cons of both sides to it...

the main ones i think of below...

INCREASING DETECTION RANGE
PRO -- they would be somewhat of a scout class again even though they still need alot more work done
CON -- the effect it would have on Invis towers in siege (not being able to hide defenses or players well enough to get the scouts in range thus causing people to cry hacks all night)

DECREASING THROW/COMBO THROW
PRO -- scouts would be able to use detect as it is without any major drawbacks affecting both siege and the general rogue class isnt going to break (if it wasnt used before it got buffed then a slightly shorter range wont screw anything up)
CON -- rogues might take damage from time to time by scouts and other various mobs in the game instead of being another ranged melee class (not speaking of any specific rogue class combos, just rogue in general)

...

if rogues were meant to rely on only ranged skills they wouldnt hit so hard with a dagger

and i think scouts should see inside invis towers, just not at a range that no other class in the game has

But those scouts arn't in hide. You they might see you, but the mage can kill them as the scout runs in range.

are you not even reading the posts you quote? 250 is the max attack range in the game, that is a good range for detection to be ranged at

Quoted from "karmakarma"

are you not even reading the posts you quote? 250 is the max attack range in the game, that is a good range for detection to be ranged at

I am reading. Let me try to explain my self better, i am sorry. Scouts SHOULD be able to see mages in invis towers. Thats the whole point of scouts. The whole argument here is that scouts cant see rogues before they die because of the range of combo throw. By the exact same logic, a scout should see a mage in an invis tower before that mage can magma blade him. That mage, even if spotted, could still magma blade the scout though since scouts have shorter range than m/d. So in the end its still fairly balanced.

i agree scouts should see every class in an invis tower but at a max range of 250 for 1 very simple reason, if scouts got a skill range of 300 which is higher than any player or mob skill then everyone will want the range of their skills to be increased as well, that would cause alot of qq'ing and some good buffs or some really bad nerfs flying around, which do you think would most likely happen

Quoted from "karmakarma"

i agree scouts should see every class in an invis tower but at a max range of 250 for 1 very simple reason, if scouts got a skill range of 300 which is higher than any player or mob skill then everyone will want the range of their skills to be increased as well, that would cause alot of qq'ing and some good buffs or some really bad nerfs flying around, which do you think would most likely happen

Mer. maybe.

honestly i think scouts should have a few attack skills at max range too, they are after all called scouts, if they cant attack what they see then might as well rename the class to "decoy"

edit: that would be a bit funny though...

person A: "what class do you play"

person B: " i play a d/m"

person A: "why do you play a druid/mage? you should try mage/druid instead, they hit harder"

Person B: " no you misunderstand, im the guild's decoy/mage, i just find people, shout it in chat then die"

If I recall correctly, scouts also can't see people who use an invis pot. They might want to also look into that too

Quoted from "Cike"

I don't know...the brick wall seems to have stopped talking to me...(not you darwec...)

@ darwec: we are not trying to remove throw/cthrow, nor are we trying to kill its use as a filler by reducing damage, we are simply trying to reduce ranged DPS in the way that would impact pve the least...how much would a 50 range reduction really effect those off classes? r/p gets heals and a stun, r/d gets heals and a ranged ale, r/CH get stuns and movement speed buffs, the only class I can think as having an issue with a shorter throw is r/WL, and that's cuz I don't know what its elites are....anyways, all rogues get sneak attack, a 3 second+ stun, if u have trouble when questing, use hide and SA....stuns and other CC skills are so underused, because everybody just has the burn burn burn mindset...

Quoted from "Cike"

I don't know...the brick wall seems to have stopped talking to me...(not you darwec...)

@ darwec: we are not trying to remove throw/cthrow, nor are we trying to kill its use as a filler by reducing damage, we are simply trying to reduce ranged DPS in the way that would impact pve the least...how much would a 50 range reduction really effect those off classes? r/p gets heals and a stun, r/d gets heals and a ranged ale, r/CH get stuns and movement speed buffs, the only class I can think as having an issue with a shorter throw is r/WL, and that's cuz I don't know what its elites are....anyways, all rogues get sneak attack, a 3 second+ stun, if u have trouble when questing, use hide and SA....stuns and other CC skills are so underused, because everybody just has the burn burn burn mindset...

how bout simply balancing R.M so youll stop QQing about rogue range/dps?? None of this was an issue till R.M. I have pretty much answered any thread up to this point where you ask a question so Im not exactly sure what ya even mean about talking to you. Im not talking to you or anyone in particular here anyway.

Most everyone bitching on this thread is bitching about SW, I don't really care how ya might fix to accomodate SW whatever will make yall happy just don't FACK with my PVE char PERIOD. Make rogue range 10 in SW for all I care long as after SW for PVE its back to normal. (don't really do that or rogues will be on here next wanting more range on throws in SW)

@ quaffy: no, scouts can NOT see people with invis pots, but that's not really an issue, as they have 2min CD and only last 15 sec...theoreticly, even if range of detection is buffed, rogue just uses invis pot to kill scout, then hide to take out rest of the group...though, again, invis pots really not an issue....

@ Daniel: this is not an issue that has arisen since r/m revamp...this has been an issue since throw/cthrow buff...
also @ Daniel: the whole point of this thread is to fix PvP WITHOUT fking up pve...

it amazes me how much r/m keeps getting brought up, this has nothing to do with r/m itself, only throw and combo throw range

its about all rogues being able to be in hide and attack scouts at a range greater than the scouts detection skill

IT'S NOT ABOUT THE DAMAGE ASPECT OF THROW OR COMBO THROW AT ALL!

well, karma found the brick wall...

lol

Quoted from "Cike"

@ quaffy: no, scouts can NOT see people with invis pots, but that's not really an issue, as they have 2min CD and only last 15 sec...theoreticly, even if range of detection is buffed, rogue just uses invis pot to kill scout, then hide to take out rest of the group...though, again, invis pots really not an issue....

@ Daniel: this is not an issue that has arisen since r/m revamp...this has been an issue since throw/cthrow buff...
also @ Daniel: the whole point of this thread is to fix PvP WITHOUT fking up pve...

and your solution is to fack up rogue by reducing its range on vital helper functions. strike 1.
that will fack up pve rogue unless your a r.s.

stick with the fix a scout theme! that's a better direction. stop trying to nerf vital functions that aren't even THAT OP.
There are some things that need nerfing GENRAL R/x, T/CT isn't one of them via range or damage decreases.

Or as Darwec has pointed out many time previous ...... stat your char for SW and my T/CT would hit you for practilly nothing.

Quoted from "danielrayment"

Or as Darwec has pointed out many time previous ...... stat your char for SW and my T/CT would hit you for practilly nothing.

hey brick wall nice to meet you, by the way did anyone inform you yet that this thread isnt about the damage? changing stats does nothing about the range of t/ct against a scouts detection, sleep on it lol

goodnight peeps

Daniel, explain to me why exactly, in very explicit detail(step by step would be nice), how a range of 100 on throw/cthrow would ruin "vital functions" of a rogue? I must be the biggest idiot in the world not to get this...