Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Lemonater"

This thread be worse than the p/s nerf thread. One o the most powerful classes in either pvp or pve, an they be tryin ter hold onter a very OP skill, lol. The argument that a decrease in either damage or range would break the class tis dumb. Rogues twere the darlin afore they buffered throw dagger skills, an even more so wit the buff. Statin that yer needeth ter be outside AOE range o ANY mob tis dumb. Yer supposered be close hand combat toons, not scouts. Bein able ter throw daggers the same range as another class can shoot arrows, wit more damage than arrows tis borked, mates. Whinin that yer cannot solo an instance witout that ranged attack tis foolishness at best. Instances never twere meant ter be soloed. Tellin players ter stacker more pdef, or that everyone needeth an extra item (eyes or elects) in siege be foolish as well. Too many timers me backeth away from those deadly hand daggers, only ter be throw-killered. An op-scout class witout havin ter roll scout. Tell me gain tisn't wrong.

Its broken in pvp because the one class that was meant to be its counter is broken.

most rogue combos are NOT broken in pve. R/wd r/s r/k r/p hold with mages and warriors evenly. R/m IS broken but not because of throw. Thats a whole differnt discussion.

Is that clear enough for you?

Can we make some concessions from both sides in this argument?

Rogues are op in siege war. This is a fact. BUT if scouts were a more viable class, rogues would not be an issue.

Throw does, current, have moderate range and decent damage BUT if people used siege war gear (and siege gear was easier to make) this also would not be as much of an issue.

Rogues in pve are very strong BUT a) its not because of throw and b) its mostly only r/m thats op in pve.

I think a few people have already agreed with me on the above. If we can use these as a starting point we can discuss rogues better.

So my pvp fix is the following: increase scout detection range. Many have already agreed this is necessary. Increase scout damage so its a viable class again. There is already many threads for this. Encourage the use of, and make sw gear easier to come by. Regardless of changes made, sw will continue to be as broken as it is without some kind of changes either in player attitude or in sw itself.

PVE fix: the hell is with enchanted throw?

Quoted from "thebadtouch09"

Quoted from "gigilomann"

Quoted from "thebadtouch09"




PS. Fix scouts and fix iceblade. Kaythanksbye.
Fix iceblade? someone who was crying for it to be nerfed ie. iceblade thread, now wants it fixed why? because his class is being put on the pedestal of being jeapordized of being nerfed?

If you are going to attack me based on things ive said previously, please try to do so while understanding my point of view and comments.

If you remember the iceblade thread at all i made the following points on it:
it was a 200 range spammable skill based on mana which never runs out. I dident approve of a cool down. I dident at worst i thought it deserved a focus cost. I also argued both points, and was just clarifying why people were upset about it. I was never of the opinion that it deserved a CD. Cus that was stupid.

The difference here is that, while throw and combo throw are based on projectiles (as thus basically as infinite as mana) they are on a cool down and a shorter range.

I am also still of the opinion that if after a scout fix, throw needs a range nerf, then sure. Go for it. Just fix scouts first.

Iceblade did need to be balanced and perhaps a 2 sec CD was overkill dunno really IM NOT A P.S so I try not to make to many comments along the line of HOW BEST TO BALANCE a P.S. (I rem running instances where P.S would do more damage then dps classes just cuase the spaming .. that crosses a line where one says we need balancing) . And like I said earlier about my trying not to make too many suggestions on how to balance P.S, I say the same to the 90% of NON-ROGUES on this thread trying to suggest whats good for rogues to someone that been playing rogue there entire RoM life (since the beginning).

Darwec I give + 1 to your previous thread which says some alone the same lines.


I do however disagree with the last line ya say here about Go for it after fixing scouts etc. There is abs so need/reason to lower the range of throws especially if scouts get "fixed". I know what your trying to say (if scouts get fixed your confident that all will be happy n shat). Just a comment along those line is opening the flood gates.

And BTW R.P is broken .... just not because of T/CT that's a whole different thread of lame azz stupid 70 elite.

Quoted from "danielrayment"

I do however disagree with the last line ya say here about Go for it after fixing scouts etc. There is abs so need/reason to lower the range of throws especially if scouts get "fixed". I know what your trying to say (if scouts get fixed your confident that all will be happy n shat). Just a comment along those line is opening the flood gates.

I stand by it in so far as if we fix everything thats current MASSIVLY wrong with pvp and its more or less balanced with ONLY rogues being the last broken thing...well fix it. But I am confident that if we make the appropriate siege fixes it will not be an issue. This might require an entire separate siege fix thread for me to properly explain myself. If i do start such a thread, please do not bring my comments from this tread, or any specific class fix comments there because it hink the problem with siegewar goes well beyond individual broken classes. I will probably start such a thread in just a few minutes.

We should all play knights (tank gear only on us k/m's of course), kick back a few beers whilst staring each other down in siege, perhaps we'll throw in a few heals if we're bored. Fun times all around!

darwec, again, I agree 100%...

my solution:
1) fix scouts
2) don't touch rogues
3) ????
4) profit

but since RW seems to have a problem "fixing" scouts, I don't have much faith they would actually go in that direction...thus, this turns into a rogue issue....

@ Daniel: some of us also play rogues ya know....its not just the non-rogues that think rogues are kinda overpowered...heck, when I play rogue, its just too easy to kill people...

Wow this thread is till going............


DOH this will be the end of Throw/Combo Throw OPNess....LOL. The Nerf bat be winding up right =(


@Cike

Sure I am always doing something wrong.....about focus

It negates the natural regen of focus so once you start spamming skills that take focus your not regenerating it anymore....not neccesarily the cost of Detection but the fact that it would negate your focus regen....now as a S/W never really had to worry bout that due to the one focus regen elite.

I think the best fix for throw/combo throw is to chage the damage formula for it back to the way it was then waa laa no more issues about its range.

Quoted from "thebadtouch09"

Throw does, current, have moderate range and decent damage BUT if people used siege war gear (and siege gear was easier to make) this also would not be as much of an issue.

So my pvp fix is the following: increase scout detection range. Many have already agreed this is necessary. Increase scout damage so its a viable class again.

I'd disagree that lack of SW gear is cause of complaints about T/CT. Since almost everyone is on equal footing in terms of not having Sw gear, there should be equal amounts of complaints about every class. But there is not.


But second point I'm as of right now able to agree with, since RW has repeatedly shown that they're incapable of nerfing without destroying. Fix scouts first, then observe what happens and see if further balancing is needed

kakita....if you are spamming focus using skills, then you are doing something wrong...35 focus is really the most u shud be using per kill, many times 20 is all I need, and that's just cuz I need VA to stun...but I digress, this is not a "how to effectively manage focus" thread...

@ thread: nothing needs to be done with rogues if scouts are fixed, but we have been waiting for a scout fix for over a year...

I'm fully aware this really adds nothing to the discussion. I tried to make what I thought was a valid point earlier and it seemed to have gotten completely ignored so w/e...

But way too many people on the forums have the attitude of the attached picture and it appears that 99% of the time RW agrees with this which is sad.

Quoted from "Cike"

kakita....if you are spamming focus using skills, then you are doing something wrong...35 focus is really the most u shud be using per kill, many times 20 is all I need, and that's just cuz I need VA to stun...but I digress, this is not a "how to effectively manage focus" thread...

@ thread: nothing needs to be done with rogues if scouts are fixed, but we have been waiting for a scout fix for over a year...

dude I have been waiting for over a year for rom to fix my broken r.p skill which BTW is A HUGE PROBLEM! Ya don't see me making threads about how to nerf scouts/mages/knights/wardens just cause they wont fix my dauym skill.

I think the thread has reached it last line of life. I think most have finally conceded not to fack with rogues T/CT and that FIXING scout is a better option.
For those that don't, I say your can have your opinions is a free country. Lets just hope that none of you with that viewpoint are RoM programmers.

Quoted from "danielrayment"

dude I have been waiting for over a year for rom to fix my broken r.p skill which BTW is A HUGE PROBLEM! Ya don't see me making threads about how to nerf scouts/mages/knights/wardens just cause they wont fix my dauym skill.

I think the thread has reached it last line of life. I think most have finally conceded not to fack with rogues T/CT and that FIXING scout is a better option.
For those that don't, I say your can have your opinions is a free country. Lets just hope that none of you with that viewpoint are RoM programmers.

yes, things are broke...and if it was a broken rogue general skill, bet there'd be tons of threads about it...

the conclusion to fix scouts, then fix rogues was reached in the very first pages of this thread lol...but since scouts don't appear to be getting fixed anytime soon, that leaves the only option to adjust rogues...

Someone hasn't been paying attention at all to this game.. There is someone in power up there who has a deep hatred for the scout class. Every thread and posts on their problems for the last years has been deliberately ignored (far worse they have resulted in even more spite nerfs to the scout class and the last few nods to the scout class have been nerfs. ie the cutting of the range of the crossbow. Since this person will always derail any change to the scout class the only solution to this problem is to nerf the rogue class.

and so the circle of this thread goes around again ..... nerfing rogues solves NOTHING except pissing off rogues. This is not a solution so there no point in continuing to keep bring it up. Ya R.M needs a little balncing but there NOTHING wrong with the general T/CT throws.


Get all the scouts in the game (however many are left :{ ) make a how scout are broken thread and maybe rom peoples will read it. Just stop saying well the only solution is .... to nerf rogues, start saying more positive scout feedback. Personly I don't know scout that well, from my experience in the past they did require balancning , and naturally RoMs version of balancing is usally to completely destroy the class. Assuming its not already broke from shoty programming (<R.P).

Quoted from "danielrayment"

Get all the scouts in the game (however many are left :{ ) make a how scout are broken thread and maybe rom peoples will read it.

ur talking about circles...then post this???

/facepalm...

Quoted from "danielrayment"
Get all the scouts in the game (however many are left :{ ) make a how scout are broken thread and maybe rom peoples will read it.


Can't even bother to read the posts. There have been dozens of posts by scouts about the problems and because some one in power hates the scouts the results of these posts have been even more nerfs for the scout class. There has been hundreds of posts with positive scout feedback about their being broken and in spite the result has to break the class even more for making the posts. Please start playing attention to what is written.

Aardvark, idc what RW had done HISTORICALLY. I refuse to call for a nerf to a class over a pvp complaint because the counter to said class is broken. All the effort that has gone into asking for a Rogue nerf could have been put into asking for scout fix. We should all be over on Scout Fix Suggestions complaining that scouts are too weak.

my concern isn't the posts that suggest positive feeback for scouts.

if none of the post on this thread mention anything about nerfing rogues I would have stop reading posting LONG ago.

Quoted from "danielrayment"

and so the circle of this thread goes around again ..... nerfing rogues solves NOTHING except pissing off rogues. This is not a solution so there no point in continuing to keep bring it up. Ya R.M needs a little balncing but there NOTHING wrong with the general T/CT throws.


Get all the scouts in the game (however many are left :{ ) make a how scout are broken thread and maybe rom peoples will read it. Just stop saying well the only solution is .... to nerf rogues, start saying more positive scout feedback. Personly I don't know scout that well, from my experience in the past they did require balancning , and naturally RoMs version of balancing is usally to completely destroy the class. Assuming its not already broke from shoty programming (


I think Rogues require balancing just like you thought Scouts needed balanced.

Scouts are not weak.

The same people who nerfed the scout class to uselessness are still there and making the decisions. Changing company names and locations doesn't change the people who make the decisions. If there was any intention to ever fix the scout class it could have been done long ago or even yesterday all the information has been on the forums for months and years. If you ignore history you are doomed to relive it. The result of every thread on scout problems has been a further nerf to the class. THe concept that they will ever fix the scout class has no basis in reality. If so they would have told us what is being done and when. So the only option that has any hope it to make the rogue class just a little less an overpowered range class and just leave it as an overpowered melee class.

Sorry, nothing to add, but these 'break the class' and 'You obviously don't understand the rogue class' arguments have me rolling on the floor.

Best solution, count the rogues calling for nerfs in the IB thread, then count the P/s' calling for nerfs here, f there are more rogues n the IB thread, nerf em