Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "gigilomann"

Quoted from "thebadtouch09"

Aardvark, idc what RW had done HISTORICALLY. I refuse to call for a nerf to a class over a pvp complaint because the counter to said class is broken. All the effort that has gone into asking for a Rogue nerf could have been put into asking for scout fix. We should all be over on Scout Fix Suggestions complaining that scouts are too weak.

You say you dont care what RW has done historically? Yet earlier you said how RW has been known to nerf classes to uselessness, so which is it? you care or dont care about what theyve done historically? maybe they WONTnerf rogue to uselessness. since you said yourself you dont care what theyve done historically, contradictory

Ive never said that? You are confusing your posts. I just said nerfing rogue range doesnt make sense given the circumstances and that in general we should never discuss nerfs based on pvp.

I have an end game rogue and I don't play it as often as I do other classes. It is far more overpowered than the scouts prior to chapter 3. It can stand a nerf even for pve. Historically rogues have been given buff after buff even though they are overpowered. There is and has always been a strong love of the rogue class and a great hatred for the scout class. Even if they decide to nerf the rogue class they would never actually harm it for they love it far too much.
A nerf for the rogue class would never end their overpowered dps, while a buff for the scout class will never happen. That is history.

The range is fine for combo throw, Like i mentioned earlier if you want to fix Rogues in Siege make the eyes silent, as a rogue i cant sneak up on an eye and use combo throw without it detecting me in hide, However the effect of the eye on people with speed buffs can vary a lot.

I also think that any one skill that hits you should never hit you 4 times in a row in pvp, otherwise that skill is to overpowered for pvp since their is not much of way to immune to all 4 hits

Lowering the range of T/CT has a pretty decent impact on PVP since it means that several other classes regain the advantage once the rogue is out of hide. It's not just a Scout vs Rogue thing. Many other classes have skills that are longer range but don't hit as hard, so the additional range advantage would allow them to fire off several skills rather than just one or two before the gap is closed. Currently, you go through all the trouble of bringing the rogue out of hide (detection, static defenses, or lucky hit by a mage) and then it's still a bit of a toss up who wins vs many combos. Quite a long time ago, someone described it as something like: once you get the rogue out of hide, you still have to fight a really good warrior. More spike damage and difficult to hit them with most physical classes. And that was before they had viable range skills.

It's actually not true that everyone was always R/S either. R/K ruled for quite some time without significant ranged abilities. Fairly recently, an example is that there was a mad rush of players going to R/Wd after the no GCD CC became a factor, and that was before the changes to T/CT.

Completely a side note, and I haven't been playing actively enough to double check the patch notes, so I might be wrong, but didn't they take away the GCD on throw too? And that is after adding a GCD to every scout skill, even the ones that had never had a GCD before like Reflected Shot, Combo Shot, and Thorn Arrow (S/Wd)... I find that humorous.

I don't know what use hide has outside of pvp. school me on that one. other than to sneak through instances to finish find and talk to so and so quests. other than that, I don't see its use outside pvp.

and yes. I wholeheartedly agree, scouts detection should have at least the same range as a rogues farthest range attack. how about this as well. a rogues hide costs nothing. detection shouldn't either. that's what I call balance. if it cost me to see you it should cost you to hide. right?

and yea, I know my server needs work. I have taken up alchemy myself to try to pick up the slack since many have fled the game, but, I lack the interest to stay at it, and to spend much more time on this game as I have spent a few years as it is here. crafting is so, zzzzzzzzz. unless your a bot kind of person. I don't use my pet to make mats. I gather them myself. or buy them with honor points that recently got taken away from me after years of sieging to aquire them.

but yea, what does hide do for a rogue in pve. I have a rogue I play off and on and I never use hide ever except when pvping.

Hide is great in PVE it is wonderful for gathering quest or getting past guards. I went from level 75 to 80 in PVE never dying. I got into every room and past every guard and got behind the outside bosses and elites for easy backstab kills. If too strong hide combo throw escape until they died worked fine. I could have easily killed those mobs but using hide was a lot more fun and made it a totally different game.

Quoted from "trav42073"

I don't know what use hide has outside of pvp. school me on that one. other than to sneak through instances to finish find and talk to so and so quests. other than that, I don't see its use outside pvp.

and yes. I wholeheartedly agree, scouts detection should have at least the same range as a rogues farthest range attack. how about this as well. a rogues hide costs nothing. detection shouldn't either. that's what I call balance. if it cost me to see you it should cost you to hide. right?

and yea, I know my server needs work. I have taken up alchemy myself to try to pick up the slack since many have fled the game, but, I lack the interest to stay at it, and to spend much more time on this game as I have spent a few years as it is here. crafting is so, zzzzzzzzz. unless your a bot kind of person. I don't use my pet to make mats. I gather them myself. or buy them with honor points that recently got taken away from me after years of sieging to aquire them.

but yea, what does hide do for a rogue in pve. I have a rogue I play off and on and I never use hide ever except when pvping.

Just for the fun of sneaking around and being lazy. Its supposed to be: sure you COULD kill those 52 mobs in your way one at a time like a warrior or a scout would...or you can just walk past them. Yes, i legit could kill every last one of them, its probably not at all NECESSARY but its what DISTINGUISHES the class. If you want to reduce every class to only the "vital" skills, all classes would play more or less the same.

Killing them is the lazy way any class can do that as you said, what makes the rogue different is they don't have to be the same as every other class. Rogues can play with brains rather than brawn. The choice is yours skill or mindless melee.

14 pages and most of you still don't get it. T/CT is not only PvP and Rouge vs. Scout problem. PvP and weakness of Scouts simply make it more visible. ANY other MELEE class can not take opponent so easily from distance without proper subclass and that's a main problem. You can of course fool yourselfs, that warrior can take much more hits than rouge, but it is simply not true, besides rouge is suppose to dodge those hits and probably sometimes use vanish - this for PvE aspect. As for PvP well melee class simply beating another melee class from distance and other one can not make a single hit (of course I little overestimate, but this is possible)..... Well no comment on that.

Changing range from 150 to 100 will do nothing to boss fights, will do not force rouge to run straight into trash fight (even soloing - use hide, sneak around, play rouge not a scout) even rouge is melee and should be between mobs, not a mile away. This will only affect PvP balance between rouge vs. anything else. Changing detection range will make difference to invisibility towers and a bit to eyes, so not only rouge vs. scout and will also affect some aspect of PvE, beside it will not solve rogue vs. non-scout class PvP balance.

I would go further how PvP balance should be changed for rouges (start throwing stones at me), in hide there should be energy consumption of 2-4 energy per sec and during hide energy should restore only if character is not moving. And this two changes would somehow balance PvP.... Of course there are other classes that would require adjustment.

Quoted from "pietroasp"

14 pages and most of you still don't get it. T/CT is not only PvP and Rouge vs. Scout problem. PvP and weakness of Scouts simply make it more visible. ANY other MELEE class can not take opponent so easily from distance without proper subclass and that's a main problem. You can of course fool yourselfs, that warrior can take much more hits than rouge, but it is simply not true, besides rouge is suppose to dodge those hits and probably sometimes use vanish - this for PvE aspect. As for PvP well melee class simply beating another melee class from distance and other one can not make a single hit (of course I little overestimate, but this is possible)..... Well no comment on that.

Changing range from 150 to 100 will do nothing to boss fights, will do not force rouge to run straight into trash fight (even soloing - use hide, sneak around, play rouge not a scout) even rouge is melee and should be between mobs, not a mile away. This will only affect PvP balance between rouge vs. anything else. Changing detection range will make difference to invisibility towers and a bit to eyes, so not only rouge vs. scout and will also affect some aspect of PvE, beside it will not solve rogue vs. non-scout class PvP balance.

I would go further how PvP balance should be changed for rouges (start throwing stones at me), in hide there should be energy consumption of 2-4 energy per sec and during hide energy should restore only if character is not moving. And this two changes would somehow balance PvP.... Of course there are other classes that would require adjustment.

It was already told long time back energy consumption to hide will break rogue class for pvp. All main rogue attack skills consume 25-30 energy. With your suggestion after killing one player rogue should run away or die until he get back all his energy bar so he can use his skills.

There is no way you should be running out of energy after you kill one player. You should have a far better planned rotation for each class you attack. There us bi way this class should remain so overpowered just to prevent you from running out of energy for no reason. As you have said many times the rogue is an assassin that means one kill at a time a rogue is not meant to be a mass killer anyway; You can't have it both ways.

Quoted from "amilineni"

It was already told long time back energy consumption to hide will break rogue class for pvp. All main rogue attack skills consume 25-30 energy. With your suggestion after killing one player rogue should run away or die until he get back all his energy bar so he can use his skills.

Well other way around is about 10s CD on hide after going out of it... But this will indeed break this class...

I not gonna go round in circles here as we speak im reading this thread less and less cause there no point in saying the same dauym thing all over again and again and again, to people who basically don't get it.

I agree that scout needs some POSITIVE suggestions:
"a rogues hide costs nothing. detection shouldn't either. that's what I call balance. if it cost me to see you it should cost you to hide. right? " < This is what we call a good suggestion.


Hide is really a mostly useless skill for pve its really about laziness.
Yes there are a few places where hide is UBER for pve but not nuff to say OMG what a super skill.


Its not an accident that chars with leather gear or less all come with at least one range skill and/or are healers people. Theres a reason for that and it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out the reason. OR maybe it does given the peoples view on this thread.

bottom line: Leave my gdam T/CT (general rogue skills) alone. Yes R.M enchant throw can use a balance but its not the general T/CT part that the problem.
You keep facking around with T/CT range / damage and ya might as well retire any non r.s to party run instance boss burns only.
Those scouts that say well "Drop it to 100 wouldn't matter", I say well lets drop scouts range to 100 also then cause it doesn't matter like you say!!

Quoted from "danielrayment"

bottom line: Leave my gdam T/CT (general rogue skills) alone. Yes R.M enchant throw can use a balance but its not the general T/CT part that the problem.
You keep facking around with T/CT range / damage and ya might as well retire any non r.s to party run instance boss burns only.
Those scouts that say well "Drop it to 100 wouldn't matter", I say well lets drop scouts range to 100 also then cause it doesn't matter like you say!!

Yes, because scouts have so many amazing melee skills...

I still think it would be best if they could just change how the skills work when in pvp (like how cc skills affect players differently). You could keep throw the way it is for your pve stuff and rogues wouldnt have to be as unbalanced when in siege or the super broken arena. Win/Win