Runes of Magic US / AU

The point I'm trying to make is if you do not combat hide a rogues range is basically infinite (minus scout's detection).


The whole regearing thing:

You don't have to gear for pvp but it helps. PVE gear is naturally high offense power for dps and weak in all other areas, that's how we min/max for pve. That's what gets you killed in sw by anything. I can wear 10 pieces of purely pvp statted gear and still kill the pve squishies incredibly fast. Why? They have no defense or hp. That's how the damage formula works.

its not about effort at all, its about the "range" of throw and combo throw, not the damage and not putting several people plus defenses to stop 1 rogue

Quoted from "karmakarma"

its not about effort at all, its about the "range" of throw and combo throw, not the damage and not putting several people plus defenses to stop 1 rogue

Its 100% about the effort, because no one is trying. People just want to kill rogues as easily as they kill scouts or warriors. When people actually try in sw, amazing things happen. The guilds I fight in sw are all basically equally geared with equally diverse teams. What it comes down to is skill and how much they put into defending. Some hold us in our castle, others are push overs. This is one of those things ill never beable to explain to you unless im actively with you though. I cant hand hold you through it over the forums. The way it is is fair. As a rogue, when I run around a lone i get a few more kills than most players because im in hide, but i eventually die. M/wd's basically do the same thing except the get ganked by rogues. When I come up to a group of players though, i can take maybe one of them out. If im lucky. This is really just a matter of, dont be alone. Use defenses. Leave one person to guard those defenses. This isnt just to counter rogues, its for mages, and warriors, and scouts, and champions, and every other class. But you just wont accept that you need to do these things, people think doing these things is just too much work that shouldent be necessary.

Quoted from "karmakarma"

they did already, its arcanium arena or something like that, not important enough to remember for sure but if siege was like that you would be sieging against very few people

arcanium arena only failed because there was 1 skill build that completely dominated...other than that, the gearing was great...

Quoted from "sertet"

And more often than not the melee dps is more than just rogues.

but, as others have already pointed out, the other melee dps can have more defense/HP and still be doing decent dps...

i just want to redirect you back to the opening post, scouts were made to see rogues before they get into range to attack, thats why they have a detect skill, for some reason rogues ended up with more range than a scouts detection, this thread isnt about how to play in sw its about scouts being basically useless in siege since the range of a rogues throw/cthrow is greater than the range of scouts detect.

also i have no issues when i siege, im ok with dieing but i will get your throne first everytime
also dont need pvp gear when i can swap to my full statted/plussed PVE p/k set of gear and stop 90% your damage and heal myself at the same time

Quoted from "Cike"

Quoted from "karmakarma"

they did already, its arcanium arena or something like that, not important enough to remember for sure but if siege was like that you would be sieging against very few people

arcanium arena only failed because there was 1 skill build that completely dominated...other than that, the gearing was great...

Quoted from "sertet"

And more often than not the melee dps is more than just rogues.

but, as others have already pointed out, the other melee dps can have more defense/HP and still be doing decent dps...

What do you/others mean by the def/hp thing?

Quoted from "TWMXC"

What do you/others mean by the def/hp thing?

Pretty sure thats aimed at me. I am of the personal opinion that people need to make pvp gear (not necessarily defense statted gear, but gear that is in someway pvp oriented) for you to be effective in siege. For me to explain what would constitute what good siege gear is, id need to know what your play style and primary/secondary are. Im a rogue/wd so i make defense statted tank type gear. As a r/m i would make dex gear. If i was a mage/wd id make mattack/def gear. As a m/p id just stack hp and immune people, etc.

due to passives and buffs, warriors and wardens can use more pdef/stam/HP stats and still reach the same PA for boss burns as rogues can

Quoted from "Cike"

due to passives and buffs, warriors and wardens can use more pdef/stam/HP stats and still reach the same PA for boss burns as rogues can

With berserk and savage thing they can reach a lot more than rogues, I don't see what this has to do with rogue range though. I'll admit I skipped quite a bit of this thread. Care to explain where they're going with this? Kinda lost here

Quoted from "thebadtouch09"

As a m/p id just stack hp and immune people, etc.

and with that i leave this thread with a smile

Quoted from "thebadtouch09"

Pretty sure thats aimed at me. I am of the personal opinion that people need to make pvp gear (not necessarily defense statted gear, but gear that is in someway pvp oriented) for you to be effective in siege. For me to explain what would constitute what good siege gear is, id need to know what your play style and primary/secondary are. Im a rogue/wd so i make defense statted tank type gear. As a r/m i would make dex gear. If i was a mage/wd id make mattack/def gear. As a m/p id just stack hp and immune people, etc.

thats the OTHER def/HP argument...still completely valid though...

i stat with dex/mdef and PA/def on my main because i like to pvp also, and it really does help...

Quoted from "karmakarma"

Quoted from "thebadtouch09"

As a m/p id just stack hp and immune people, etc.

and with that i leave this thread with a smile

*shrug* ur a mage. how would you pvp gear a mage/priest if all you ever did was siege?

Quoted from "thebadtouch09"

I am of the personal opinion that people need to make pvp gear (not necessarily defense statted gear, but gear that is in someway pvp oriented) for you to be effective in siege.

Current gear prices would make this option inaccessible to quite a large majority of the players. For PvP gear to happen on a large scale, the issue of gearing prices needs to be addressed first, and in all the discussions on this topic, nobody has been able to find a proper solution that would permanently deal with the issue at the core.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Quoted from "thebadtouch09"

I am of the personal opinion that people need to make pvp gear (not necessarily defense statted gear, but gear that is in someway pvp oriented) for you to be effective in siege.

Current gear prices would make this option inaccessible to quite a large majority of the players. For PvP gear to happen on a large scale, the issue of gearing prices needs to be addressed first, and in all the discussions on this topic, nobody has been able to find a proper solution that would permanently deal with the issue at the core.

I disagree. Crafted gear and x and xi and xii stats, or siege honor point gear with x and xi and xii stats are pleanty. the cost is in diamonds for plussing puris and drillers. There is no reason to be using hardmode gear for pvp.

honestly, you could even use normal/easy mode gear if you clean it, then stat it with as much defense as offense...

Quoted from "Cike"

honestly, you could even use normal/easy mode gear if you clean it, then stat it with as much defense as offense...

or all defense and just use your pve acessories if they are statted well.

Quoted from "thebadtouch09"

or all defense and just use your pve acessories if they are statted well.

yup...you don't need to +16 or t6 or drill 4 slots in their pvp gear...

heres my take on this. I have a r/wrd, a r/w,a r/s and I can say from my limited experience, why use anything else but throw/combothrow. for lvling and general questing. its easy button playing. as far as how it works in pvp, I have a major issue with hide.

a scout can only wear leather, same as a rogue. their defense is basically =. yet a rogue can hide. a scout cannot, unless a s/wrdn and only briefly.



my suggestion, make hide available as an Item Set Skill. that would be outrageous right? a mage with hide? a knight with hide? think of the shakeup and possiblilites in siege? that's a whole new level of wtf?



please gods of rom make this happen. this would be such an equalizer to rogues in pvp. you just cannot counter a rogue that pops out of hide, using a macro that pops all their pattack and pdamage cooldowns to deal a devastating lowblow, with the push of one button. if im wrong, someone please school me. but to have the ability to hide, and do some recon on a rogues playstyle, tactics in siege, and not have to be a rogue would be effin priceless. tell me im wrong.



hide. as an item set skill. plzzzzzzzzz.

Quoted from "thebadtouch09"

I disagree. Crafted gear and x and xi and xii stats, or siege honor point gear with x and xi and xii stats are pleanty. the cost is in diamonds for plussing puris and drillers. There is no reason to be using hardmode gear for pvp.

Wouldn't the use of inferior stats and lack of tiering/plussing defeat the point of PvP gear, which focuses on def/Mdef - a lot of which comes from plussing/tiering? That would mean you'd have to focus even more on Def/Mdef stats, compounded by the use of inferior stats, there'd be next to no room for any damage at all.

True that other classes would hit you for only 20k, but if you're hitting like an ungeared Knight, it would seem that the benefits would cancel out with the drawbacks. I've seen PvP geared players that are successful, and all of them are clean T7 +16. The PvP geared ones that aren't, haven't seen a successful one yet.

The only exception are PvE/PvP Rogue Hybrids (haven't seen very many for other classes, but most of those are not too successful either), which can still hit for a decent 90k Lowblow, but have a respectable amount of survivability as well.

Im ignoring the give hide to everyone post. Clearly you dont know what invis pots are. Clearly you did not read the many posts that asked for an increase to detection.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Quoted from "thebadtouch09"

I disagree. Crafted gear and x and xi and xii stats, or siege honor point gear with x and xi and xii stats are pleanty. the cost is in diamonds for plussing puris and drillers. There is no reason to be using hardmode gear for pvp.

Wouldn't the use of inferior stats and lack of tiering/plussing defeat the point of PvP gear, which focuses on def/Mdef - a lot of which comes from plussing/tiering? That would mean you'd have to focus even more on Def/Mdef stats, compounded by the use of inferior stats, there'd be next to no room for any damage at all.

True that other classes would hit you for only 20k, but if you're hitting like an ungeared Knight, it would seem that the benefits would cancel out with the drawbacks. I've seen PvP geared players that are successful, and all of them are clean T7 +16. The PvP geared ones that aren't, haven't seen a successful one yet.

The only exception are PvE/PvP Rogue Hybrids (haven't seen very many for other classes, but most of those are not too successful either), which can still hit for a decent 90k Lowblow, but have a respectable amount of survivability as well.

Ok heres the thing: most people dont have pvp gear. So lets say you personally made pvp gear so you have maybe 40-50k attack with 1-200k hp and 1-200k defense. You will not die nearly as easily as you do now with your 30-60k defense. You will still one shot most players. For example, if as a r/wd I statted with 2 guardians, 3 protections, and an Anni (which i dont, because its expnesive) i would hit 57k pa, 166k hp, 135k pdef unbuffed. I could still afford to lose some PA cus most people dont even have that much Pdef and still pick up more HP. If i use cheaper stats (2 transformations, 2 mysterys, one anni, one protection) i still have the same pa, 143k hp, and 141k pdef. Most rogues wouldn't touch that. Warriors could since they have naturally higher pa. A mage warden would have similar pvp statting capabilities for defense, or could go straight hp and still oneshot people since NO ONE stats mdef except healers. You lose nothing in the attack department for pvp. You dont NEED attack for pvp.

Lets say one day EVERYONE has pvp gear? Sw will no longer be a one shot fest and will rely on skills and stuns and will be a whole new game that no one can really anticipate. It wouldent benefit to have high attack either because for the most part you will still have enough hp and defense to survive.

As it stands now, you can have very low attack and still oneshot people because they have insanely low defense, so statting defense for pvp makes perfect sense.

-=-=-=Edit=-=-=-

Sorry mis read. yes you still have to +12-+16 (you dont need that t7 garbage :O). You still need runes. But you dont have to go find OD hardmode end game gear. You dont need to use elemental and disorder stats (Even though i did in my example).