Runes of Magic US / AU

I guess I have a bit of a different perspective, since even with PvE gear, @103k matk I hit most people for 45-66k instants (although this is with T9+16 KBNH staff, should be a bit better when I plus/tier Hoson Spine). Still, its hard to imagine hitting people for any amount of damage without statting matk...

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

I guess I have a bit of a different perspective, since even with PvE gear, @103k matk I hit most people for 45-66k instants (although this is with T9+16 KBNH staff, should be a bit better when I plus/tier Hoson Spine). Still, its hard to imagine hitting people for any amount of damage without statting matk...

I......what? i want you to hit me because i dont belive that you're only hitting for 66k fireballs. (unless u mean 66k non crits)

Well from quiet some time I also recon throw skill as OP. I also think best way to nerf it is by range, as it wouldn't affect PvE so much and really do not start for braking it for PvE, as non other melee class have any viable (in therms both range and DPS) ranged skill. OK DMG could be also nerfed, it would probably worked even better on PvP, but would totally not work on PvE. And yes If there would be no PvP at all in RoM, I would still claim that mixed range and DMG of throw on melee class is OP.

As for WDs and Ws have higher HP/Def... True, but also less dodges, not a single ranged skill and no hide (so 1 vs. 3, as I recon somehow HP equvalent of def - probably same as dodges, as they all alter survivability)... I would agree that warden on his ordinary EQ can buff to much more pDef than other classes, but it is due to his skills, not statting, as changing statting for both WD and W, would also mean less patt and having same amount of patt as rouge doesn't mean same DPS on bosses. Of course both WD and W could have subclass that grants them ranged skills even more patt, but same goes with rouges selfheal from WD, patt from WD, W and def from K, WD... As for warden pDef, well as fight between statted and skilled rouge and warden, would be imo equall, than it is not a big problem, besides higher def would basically form warden pet and using def pet would mean lower DMG output, so it is not that wd have everything, although the class should be again reworked, but it's the other topic.


Let's go back for P/S for a moment. Back when P/S was "OP" in SWs (really it was only dummy class anyone could use, to be master of sieges and that simplicity was OP, not skill) it was also viable DPS combination in PvE... Not much of players know, that it was as good in therms of DPS as any other class combination in 3+min boss fight. It was probably the best DPS during trash clearing in HM instances, as he could also heal and even without AoEs do decent trash DMG. And most of all it was really competitive DPS in NM and EM, even during full burn. Also it was first choice for any priest for easy lvling main class. It wasn't best DPS nor healer, especially with DPS EQ, but it was fine and entertaining combination. So basically changing ice blade not only changed PvP aspect, as some would say "fix it", but also totally ruin this class combination in PvE. I do not see changing throw range would ruin rouge in PvP nor PvE, so why shouldn't it happened?

Also I know what I am taking about I was playing P/S and S/R same character back on 72 lvl cap time and I simply was going AC and with stronger PT ToSH on P/S (even if he was undergeared compared to my S/R), as I feel it more useful for PT, than S/R - especially if any other was in the PT. Now I am playing WD and find it in some ways OP and some other useless, as said before this should get little rework, but reworking only 1 or 2 skills would probably destroy whole class (well things that makes WDs OP usually also works for CHs, usually even more, I suppose it is due to making DPS and Tank from one character in the first place). Was also playing R/S during 67 lvl cap, and even back then it was OP in PvP and very viable in PvE and since then class only get buffed.

wow what happen to this thread its turned into a sw thing going off topic and all over the place.

Throw/CT is a VITAL helper function for rogues: rogues CANT be both the uber dps AND be tankish nuff to take aoe type hits or running at a bunch of mobs. At the same time T/CT will not be SO MUCH damage that is at all useful on bosses or high defense geared pvp chars. I use my T/CT for pretty much anything trashish/mobissh that would cause me problems if I had to go at it melee wise. That be anything from exploding worms to poisonish trash mobs (betho), to aoe type mobs (rt bolgus, kbn bugs) WITHOUT it you might as well hang rogue up as the only thing that rogue be useful for is party run boss burns.


Some of you are complaining that rogue range is more than scout range ... I cant really make any comment along that line other then that a scout problem and maybe you need to increase scout range (through I really don't agree with that personally)

bottom line. You fack with my rogue throw range and ill fack you up!! either increase it or leave it alone.

Quoted from "thebadtouch09"

I......what? i want you to hit me because i dont belive that you're only hitting for 66k fireballs. (unless u mean 66k non crits)

I wish it was non-crit -_-...
66k is before siege debuffs usually. Once in a week I might hit some regular geared guy for 80k Fireball, but its not everyday... Usually 55k-60k with Agony.

Quoted from "danielrayment"

wow what happen to this thread its turned into a sw thing going off topic and all over the place.

Because anyone who isnt a rogue doesn't care about throw/combo throw in any situation that isn't pvp related. Kinda makes sense that sw would be brought up when that is the place where it clearly isn't balanced.

They should just have skills behave differently in pvp than they do in pve, but that won't happen because it would require work to be done. I mean, they already do it with how long cc skills last in pvp vs pve. I'm not getting my hopes up for anything though.

Don't start with lower def... From EQ alone rouge loose like 10k def unbuffed on t8 EQ (lether vs. chain) add to that 3k on WD and 6k for W from stamina to def, let's round it up to 20k so instead of 75k, 95k unbuffed (something about it). On bosses it will change nothing (and with berserk on warrior will loose any advantage). On trash rouge has much lower aggro from both WD and W, maybe except R/M with elite on, as both of chain characters have more AoEs... Warden could have much more def of course, but usually this would mean no Chirion on boss or whole group to wait for wardens CDs (to buff pet just before boss), both situations are not ideal (and without chirion DPS is much lower), otherwise enhanced def is same as R/WD or lower than R/K (compared to original value) and R/WD is definitely one of top combinations. Taking 2 mobs form new instances (i would say randomly, but honestly these were only two I remember names), one elite and one normal, first way over 300k patt, so this 20k unbuffed would change literally nothing....Second much better 102k patt, so ADF change from 0,632 to 0,534 aka 18,5% lower hits (I choose unbuffed values, as buff can be different and gap would probably lower anyway)... And there are few questions.... If rouge can aggro more mobs than Warden and Warrior, usually not cuz of lack of AoEs, can he dodge 18,5% of hits IMO probably not, but he also doesn't have to with decent tank, also he can vanish, use buff for more dodges, so in therms of def melee classes are really close to equal. Same with HP 3k unbuffed is like 10k with unicorn... OK can save you few times, but do not overestimate it... Probably warden would have slightly higher survivability on trash than most rouges, but as for warrior I don't think so. And any melee DPS class is not designed to take hits, if you are forced to do so, than you or your tank is doing something wrong.

apparently I don't speak English as none of the long post made much sense.

but from what I can tell your assuming that im running in a party. How bout when I feel like soloing kbn e? or rt? or beth e? GL as a rogue doing that without proper range throws without dying on the mobs via aoe/posion. The bosses are the ez part that's when dodge and high burn melee dps kicks in, its the mobs that blow and its CT that allows a rogue to deal with that stuff.

Warriors/Wardens/Knights etc can all take WAY more hits/damge than rogue can and can deal with mobs there own way.

Warden on KBN easy without healer is dead on any subclass accept scout, warrior also + he would need good ranged wep. Why rouge should have it with any subclass? On RT I really do not see dying with any class.
And of course normally statted DPS geared and DPS oriented Warriors and Wardens can take WAY more hits instead of 1 - 2 or instead of 2 -3 on equal gear, so up to 100% more it is really OP!!! Ups rouge dodges, 3 times in a row.... And do not mess it with knights, as they are tanks... You could as well say, that priest can heal way more than rouge...

Since this thread is already way offtopic, I'll just throw this in here for the lol's.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AH_iU8u4z20
Totally love this rogue video!!!

The big problem is the game had dropped to its lowest level. Rogues vs anti rogues nothing else really matters. The rogue is vastly overpowered without throw/combo throw and hide but with it has become a character that operates in a god mode unless it meets a character who has so modified their character or tactics that its only purpose in the game is to kill rogues.
It is no fun to play this game if you are a non rogue because the only way the game can then be played is as an anti rogue and you lose the whole rest of the game through the time and money spent preparing yourself to play against rogues and the different tactics you have to use.
Fewer and fewer playhers are playing now and the reason is rogues. A few people have enough money to waste on different sets of armor or enough tp to set up different skills to play against rogues but most do not so they are just leaving the game. I sometimes play as an end game rogue but it is not fun the challenge is not there as it is with all the other characters. ROGUES WILL KILL THIS GAME.

Quoted from "pietroasp"

Warden on KBN easy without healer is dead on any subclass accept scout, warrior also + he would need good ranged wep. Why rouge should have it with any subclass? On RT I really do not see dying with any class.
And of course normally statted DPS geared and DPS oriented Warriors and Wardens can take WAY more hits instead of 1 - 2 or instead of 2 -3 on equal gear, so up to 100% more it is really OP!!! Ups rouge dodges, 3 times in a row.... And do not mess it with knights, as they are tanks... You could as well say, that priest can heal way more than rouge...

Warden/x has a pet they can send at kbn ez mobs. /rogue, /scout has throw and bows can use range. and /x has way more hp/defense/mdefense to counter aoe if it even gets that far. chances are your pet will take out the stuff and you wont be anywhere near the aoe.

RT the hunters and the bolgus can still wipe out a rogue. If I have no CT all it takes is to be gang tackled by mobs with a hunter and down a rogue will go. That as easy as level bronze let alone gold +. As you have just pointed out RT is pretty super ez for you without range tactics whatever classe your using.

If you want to continue going round in circles that's your periogative, but my auto reply to anyone who answers along the lines of this guy will be rogues NEED CT / T to be able to be useful to solo pretty much anything with mobs that have hard hitting aoes/poisons or hard hitting range bows etc. Warden//Warriors/Knights/Preist etc ... all have there own ways of dealing with this stuff. LEAVE MY CT/T range alone gdmamit.

lol i thought this thread was about rogue range dps against scout range dps,

try to be a scout and go solo those so called instances and see how it will turn out LOL


and besides if you are a decently geared dps, other then scouts, and cant solo those easier instances.... nothing more to say...

pvp is a whole different story...

never said I couldn't solo them as long as I have CT/T to counter the stuff I need to use it for. Take CT (range) away and it would be a totally different story. Whatever class your play? Mage lets take away all your range skills and see how well you do in those instances. Warden? lets take away your pet and chain gears and see how well your do. On and on I can go with this shat.

Then how about we FIX SCOUTS. Scouts are broken so nerf rogues? wtf.

Like that is what this all comes down to right now. W/m's m/'ws champions wardens can all keep up with most rogues. Scouts cant, fix scouts.

Nothing except eyes can find a rogue in sw, but scouts should beable to. Fix scouts.

For the love of god, fix scouts so ppl stop bitching about rogues.

the aoe in RT does not go off immediately....use throw then jump back....and wow! ur still alive!! seriously, I can't even think of a valid argument against lowering damage, as the mobs would just need 2 t/ct instead of 1....lrn2kite...and as darwec already said, it would do nothing for boss fights(except maybe r/m)...but. no, I don't think damage needs to be lower, just range...no need to over-nerf it...

agree 100% darwec....if scouts were fixed, no reason to touch rogue....but since scouts don't look like they gonna be fixed anytime soon...

Quoted from "Cike"

the aoe in RT does not go off immediately....use throw then jump back....and wow! ur still alive!! seriously, I can't even think of a valid argument against lowering damage, as the mobs would just need 2 t/ct instead of 1....lrn2kite...and as darwec already said, it would do nothing for boss fights(except maybe r/m)...but. no, I don't think damage needs to be lower, just range...no need to over-nerf it...

agree 100% darwec....if scouts were fixed, no reason to touch rogue....but since scouts don't look like they gonna be fixed anytime soon...

Thats not a valid argument! You cant nerf one class because you refuse to fix another one thats broken!

Fix scouts.

darwec, u do realise every single change to scouts since ch4 has been a nerf except for 1? and the one that wasn't a nerf is doubling the range of joint blow and throat attack from 50 to 100...

I am all for buffing scouts, but apparently RW isn't....and no, its not a valid argument at all, its just how all of us scouts feel ATM tbh...

Quoted from "Cike"

darwec, u do realise every single change to scouts since ch4 has been a nerf except for 1? and the one that wasn't a nerf is doubling the range of joint blow and throat attack from 50 to 100...

I am all for buffing scouts, but apparently RW isn't....and no, its not a valid argument at all, its just how all of us scouts feel ATM tbh...

Idc! Spam RW with emails to buff scouts! Buff scouts! Buff the shit out of them!