Runes of Magic US / AU

So.. have RW increase the range of Detection to 250

Quoted from "aardvark3"

The big problem is the game had dropped to its lowest level. Rogues vs anti rogues nothing else really matters. The rogue is vastly overpowered without throw/combo throw and hide but with it has become a character that operates in a god mode unless it meets a character who has so modified their character or tactics that its only purpose in the game is to kill rogues.
It is no fun to play this game if you are a non rogue because the only way the game can then be played is as an anti rogue and you lose the whole rest of the game through the time and money spent preparing yourself to play against rogues and the different tactics you have to use.
Fewer and fewer playhers are playing now and the reason is rogues. A few people have enough money to waste on different sets of armor or enough tp to set up different skills to play against rogues but most do not so they are just leaving the game. I sometimes play as an end game rogue but it is not fun the challenge is not there as it is with all the other characters. ROGUES WILL KILL THIS GAME.

+1

[/quote]Plus, If you use the Sardo set skill, focus costs are reduced for scouts.[/quote]
which is kinda useless tbh...scouts simply don't have focus issues unless u have detection+target area up together(which is just stupid), or u just spam WA(equivilent to a non-r/s spamming LB, it just shows how much you don't know how to play your class...)...other than that, there is really no way to have focus issues, unless some elite eats focus at an obscene rate....

edit: sorry for fail quoting...forums hate my phone...

Honestly, bringing down range of CT and Throw isn't going to change PvP very much either.

The 2 reasons I die to rogues are both uneffected by CT/T range.

1. Rogue sees me, gets stunned by eye, hits Escape and CT me > I'm dead. Does range of CT matter? no. My T-storm on average takes 3 ticks to kill a rogue, and a rogue can easily get in range of CT/T before I can get 3 successful ticks.

2. I'm pushing opponent terriory with guildies, and either run out of eyes or there's a constant stream of opponents / towers attacking me that prevent me from setting an eye. Rogues come, CT > I'm dead before I have any chance to even fight them. You can nerf it down to 100 range, and no, I'll still be dead before I get the chance to do anything.

Honestly, as of right now, I'd say no nerf to Rogues. Not because I think they don't need to be toned down, but because I know RW is incapable of nerfing without completely destroying a class (May or may not change in the future).

Of course, that doesn't mean I will accept Rogues telling others to "Oh come in a group of 10 people so I can kill 9 of you before you kill me!" type of comments or "Oh, put down 100 towers and you might prevent me from soloing you and all your towers by myself!", and I will be doing my best to counter and debunk every single last one of them.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Honestly, bringing down range of CT and Throw isn't going to change PvP very much either.

The 2 reasons I die to rogues are both uneffected by CT/T range.

1. Rogue sees me, gets stunned by eye, hits Escape and CT me > I'm dead. Does range of CT matter? no. My T-storm on average takes 3 ticks to kill a rogue, and a rogue can easily get in range of CT/T before I can get 3 successful ticks.

2. I'm pushing opponent terriory with guildies, and either run out of eyes or there's a constant stream of opponents / towers attacking me that prevent me from setting an eye. Rogues come, CT > I'm dead before I have any chance to even fight them. You can nerf it down to 100 range, and no, I'll still be dead before I get the chance to do anything.

Honestly, as of right now, I'd say no nerf to Rogues. Not because I think they don't need to be toned down, but because I know RW is incapable of nerfing without completely destroying a class (May or may not change in the future).

Of course, that doesn't mean I will accept Rogues telling others to "Oh come in a group of 10 people so I can kill 9 of you before you kill me!" type of comments or "Oh, put down 100 towers and you might prevent me from soloing you and all your towers by myself!", and I will be doing my best to counter and debunk every single last one of them.

Idk, in my experience its been more i kill one of you, then you know im there, i get another to 50% and i die.

i want to just see how differnt sw is with a buffed up scout class and people activly playing scouts. Because then this might not be an issue anymore. Fix the broken class, if rogues are still such a big issue, then we discuss again.

This thread is hilarious. It's vaguely reminiscent of the p/s threads.

Here we go. Combo throw is OP. Rogues who say otherwise are kidding themselves. When did rogue become a ranged dps class? It hits far too hard for what it is. On top of the no gcd It's just too much right now. One of two things needs to happen. Either the range needs to be brought down to 100 or the damage needs to be cut by alot. There's no reason a rogue of all classes should be hitting for 80k+ Several times from that far away on top of all the other benefits the rogue class gets.

Anyone whining that it will break rogues for pve... Uhm. Really. It was only recently changed to actually do damage. If combo throw and throw are what stands between you being effective solo and needing to reroll you suck as a rogue. Rogues have been soloing instances as the go to solo class since long before throw and combothrow were buffed.

Just lol'ing at Dar. He whined so hard at such lengths about how OP p/s was. Not so nice when it's your class that's overpowered is it?

Now rogue is far fom the only op siege class. I'm not calling for a nerd to ANYTHING but throw as combothrow,at least in pvp. They're just far too powerful. Otherwise rogues are fairly balanced in pvp. But 90% of the time all a rogue does is combothrow then go back into hide there is a problem with that skill.

I siege with and against some of the best rogues on the US. I'm well aware how op they can be.

Naturally buff scouts blah blah we all know that needs to happen people.

On a phone zz apologize for any mistakes and sht.

Quoted from "Borella"

Thir thread is hilarious. It's vaguely reminiscent of the p/s threads.

Here we go. Combo throw is OP. Rogues who say otherwise are kidding themselves. When did rogue become a ranged dps class? It hits far too hard for what it is. On top of the no gcd It's just too much right now. One of two things needs to happen. Either the range needs to be brought down to 100 or the damage needs to be cut by alot. There's no reason a rogue of all classes should be hitting for 80k+ Several times from that far away on top of all the other benefits the rogue class gets.

Anyone whining that it will break rogues for pve... Uhm. Really. It was only recently changed to actually do damage. If combo throw and throw are what stands between you being effective solo and needing to reroll you suck as a rogue. Rogues have been soloing instances as the go to solo class since long before throw and combothrow were buffed.

Just lol'ing at Dar. He whined so hard at such lengths about how OP p/s was. Not so nice when it's your class that's overpowered is it?

Now rogue is far fom the only op siege class. I'm not calling for a nerd to ANYTHING but throw as combothrow,at least in pvp. They're just far too powerful. Otherwise rogues are fairly balanced in pvp. But 90% of the time all a ovule does is combothrow then go back into hide there is a problem with that skill.

I siege with and against some of the best rogues on the US. I'm all aware how op they can be.

Naturally buff scouts blah blah we all know that needs to happen people.

hey i fought both sides of that argument. and i always said a cool down on iceblade would be a stupid decision. also i just hate healers in genearl and have called for heal nerfs, you know that.

also, for those rogues saying u can't solo rt due to bolgu...u have hide skill for a reason, no combat = no aoe = no problem = no right to complain...

LOL. Hide is a way of dealing with some stuff, its not the insta fix for everything however. And if I want to solo RT but have a few lower type tag along hides great for me and all doesnt help them. Not that I am saying that this is really a big pro for range or anything, just that hide doesn't fix all issues. Again your always referring to ONE example of MANY I bring up where ranged throws can help rogue. There more to it than JUST RT Bolgus.

{Specailly EDITTED for super special Borellla ---- THE FOLLOWING IS SARCASSM. PLZ DO NOT TAKE IT SERIOUSLY]
How bout we lower scouts range and mages range and any other range chars?? WTH why not nobody need range anyway!! Since we doing that we gonna have to upgrade eveyones gear with higher defense and magic defense so they can all just kill everything the tank way!!
Helll we might as well all just become Knights!! GoGo let all reroll!! Range isn't important for anyone.
[End]

Rogues CT/T are NOT OP. Those that are not R.M anyways.

And lastly WHO CARES about times before they fixed T/CT damage. THis kind of arguments not relivant and just plain stupid. Its been quite some time since then and I don't remember a lot of instances where range throws would be overly useful back then anyway. I d say RT (typo fixed) would prob be the first instance where throws could be REALLY useful to rogue. Certainly Dod didnt matter or anything before it raelly. MAYBE the level 55 instance stuff hos/dl etc

Quoted from "danielrayment"

Warden/x has a pet they can send at kbn ez mobs. /rogue, /scout has throw and bows can use range. and /x has way more hp/defense/mdefense to counter aoe if it even gets that far. chances are your pet will take out the stuff and you wont be anywhere near the aoe.



RT the hunters and the bolgus can still wipe out a rogue. If I have no CT all it takes is to be gang tackled by mobs with a hunter and down a rogue will go. That as easy as level bronze let alone gold +. As you have just pointed out RT is pretty super ez for you without range tactics whatever classe your using.



If you want to continue going round in circles that's your periogative, but my auto reply to anyone who answers along the lines of this guy will be rogues NEED CT / T to be able to be useful to solo pretty much anything with mobs that have hard hitting aoes/poisons or hard hitting range bows etc. Warden//Warriors/Knights/Preist etc ... all have there own ways of dealing with this stuff. LEAVE MY CT/T range alone gdmamit.

WD pet... Well other than WD/S so chirion... Will die way before killing mob, in process aggroing all around or just tank them taking some DMG, making hardly any DMG and eventually die aggroing everything around in the process. Argument of WD/S is really nonsens as R/S have also ranged skills. WD/R also nonsens, as we discuss changing range of skill that /r provides. As it goes with higher survibality I pointed out that this is simply nonsens... Well add to my previous post, that many AOE skills are magical, so rouge would probably have more def and % base, so def changes really nothing.



Balloons on RT could be easily take down with skill, that have range of 100 I know, cuz I do it on WD with Cross Chop and hardly ever take DMG.


Soloing fact are that rouges, were best on this since CHIII maybe even CHII, I would say currently R/WD is most OP class in soloing, so really do not bull shit me.

I have to agree with Borella, at least that this thread is hilarious.

It's a QQ thread, no more and no less, and the QQ is specifically about a pair of Rogue skills that, before RW "improved" them, were essentially unused at all, either in PvE or PvP. No Rogue player in his or her right mind wasted any TP in them, myself included. After they were "improved", Rogues either re-rolled their skills or dumped TP into T/CT.

Are T/CT powerful? Yep. Are they as powerful as most Scout skills? Maybe. Depends on the amount of TP dumped into them and the projectiles or arrows used.

But the main argument is, "Waaaaa! I get killed in Siege by Rogues using Throw and Combo Throw! Nerf them!" As others have noted, doesn't that sound like the Ice Blades Nerf argument? Just replace "Rogues" with "Priest/Scouts" and "Throw and Combo Throw" with "Ice Blades".

And note that in the comment above, the key words are "in Siege". It's *exactly* the same argument made when the "Nerf Ice Blades" threads were all the rage (and were a source of rage that a Warrior or Champion would have loved to tap for their own use.) With the exception of people who have the excess time and interest in guild-hopping to Siege more than once per day, remember that Siege is an adjunct to this game, and most of your time will be spent in PvE.

Nah. Screw nerfs. I agree that Scouts need some love after the reaming they got in Chapter IV. *Balance* the classes, instead. But don't go down the Nerf Highway.

And for those of you who whine and kvetch that any physical attack class, melee or ranged, just does too much damage to you...stack a little PDef on your gear, don't just rely on what's built into your gear. Surely you can sacrifice *one* clean stat on four or maybe even five of the what, *fourteen* or so possible gear slots to include Def/X, whether it be PAttk, Int, Stam, Str, HP, or whatever in the "X" position.

The same argument was made (and ignored) regarding MDef during the Great Ice Blades Nerf Debate. I suppose the added PDef argument will be equally ignored here.

Proposals that the range of T/CT should be reduced are ridiculous. Let's reduce the ranged attacks for *every* class, then. Then we can stand 120 away and thumb our noses at each other.

And the proposal that no PvE gear be allowed in Siege? Does the person who made that suggestion play on a PvP server? Doubtful. Is he affluent in-game enough that he can put together two completely different sets of accessories and armor? Probably. In fact, almost assuredly. Well, neither of my "main" characters either have the money, the extra gear, or the ability to run level-appropriate content.

That suggestion is one of the more brain-dead I've seen. I brought it up just to laugh at it.

Y'all go on and keep on spitting at each other about this "critical issue". I'll keep reading, but I won't be saying anything else about it.

You're naming all ranged class's as your argument for why a class that has always been a melee dps should have extremely powerful range. Do you honestly not get why that argument is stupid as hell Daniel?

1) most of the damage from throw/cthrow comes from main hand DPS...so choice of ammo is really negligable...

2) how does "rogues need a range decrease and scouts need a range increase" turn into "NERF ALL RANGE!!!"??? I'm confused...

3) we are not really discussing any other class besides rogue vs. scout, so arguments based on other classes are invalid...

4) rogues have been the top solo class since BEFORE the throw/ct buff...do what you used to do...whatever that was...

5) group play will not really be effected either...OK, so the rogue loses 2 hits per pull...is the party really gonna wipe because the rogue just stands there and doesn't use throw?

I can't see how a range of 100 on throw/cthrow will break the class for pve....

while I am in favor of a range reduction, I think a better solution is just fixing scouts, but since that doesn't appear to be happening soon...


edit: +1 borella...that's what we have been trying to argue for 1/2 the thread....people just aren't getting it...

ROFL Borella cleary you don't get the point of anything relivant.

You know what sarcasm is? you should your just the arrogant type that would use it.
I don't want to lower the range of any of those classes nor should they be lowered.


Your all just crying about nerfing a vital part of rogues skill sets when 90% of ya don't even understand rogue. That's what really STUPID here.
R.M ASIDE
T/CT isn't gonna be the game breaking DPS difference running bosses for anything instances even stuff as old as DoD.
T/CT however brought down in range WILL be a MAJOR factor in allowing rogues to do anything OTHER then melee dps a boss.

Rogue are not range dps.... Ive never said they were. They do HOWEVER have T/CT for a REASON.

the regearing ffor sw was me. im broke. like no gold at aall. my pvegear isnt even done.

if you wanted to be a rogue with range, you should rolled a r/s like you had to do before the throw/cthrow buff...now that ALL rogues have a ranged aspect, its apparently a, and i quote, "vital" part of the rogue class...

Daniel...people ran with rogues before throw/cthrow buff...they were still an excellent class back then, maybe one of the best all around...but now rogues can't function without throw/cthrow? was there some major rogue nerf I missed?

have rogues ever been nerfed? i mean a serious nerf that actually affected the class, something like what happened to scouts or p/s or even the mana drain on a priest's group heal

rogues are one of the best balanced class in the game IMO...(best, not perfect...)...so they haven't really needed a nerf...