Runes of Magic US / AU

Every time you do your action in boss fight, you evaluate little decision table.

Let's take DPS for simplicity. You decide if your health is too low or not. If it is, you decide if tactical situation is such that your healer can heal you or if he needs to focus on tank or other DPS of his own needs. You decide if your position relative boss is such that you are in risk. You evaluate boss mechanic to see if there are more adds or attacks coming, and how bad they will be. You check your defensive buffs to see what you have for protection, if you have your own healing. You check if your current defensive buffs still have ways to go or about to expire. You decide if the boss health is low enough that best defense is good offense. Then, if you decide not engage in defense, you switch to your next decision tree which does similar decisions for your offense.

None of these are subjective calls. You perform some or all of those decisions every time you take action. You are your own Diyce, running your own little decision tables with every single click or keypress. Not all of them are easily scriptable, sure. You can't tell programatically how good your other party members are, how much you can rely on your tank or healer. So DIYCE can't do every decision in your table. But a lot of them it can. Just add a little "is the situation exceptional enough that I need to make my own non-scriptable decision now, or is is regular enough to employ my usual table that I encoded into Diyce" decision to top of your decision tree and you are all set.

Now, I can hear some people saying "but you are not even the one making the decision, you just grabbed that table off someone else". Well, sure... but then when you read "Guide to playing XX/YY class combo", you are doing same thing. You are not developing your own understanding of your class, you are taking knowledge developed by other people and using it for you. So, meh...

aardvark, you do realize that you can't just press the DIYCE macro once and it does everything, right? That's not how the DIYCE that is available works. Now, if someone has the ability to make it do that, then they have made it into a bot, and that one person should be banned for botting, not the program they chose to exploit. Uberflex did that, DIYCE does not (as available currently to the open market).

So you use zero addons? No wowmaps? No dailyquest? no changes to the UI? nothing at all? If you have even one addon, you are a hypocrite. If not, then you are insane, as this game is so badly designed graphically speaking.

WoW doesn't have DIYCE, but it has a much more in depth macro ability. You can make macros in WoW that you can't make here, this game is different from WoW...who knew?! However, WoW has quite the extensive addon community, as do most blizzard games. So to say most other games don't allow them is a fallacy.

lol whats with all the QQ About DIYCE

DIYCE doesn't make a player any better without knowing how their toon functions

DIYCE doesn't auto play your toon for you

DIYCE doesn't auto loot, kill, heal, run, turn, jump, spin, sit, stay, whatever you can do

DIYCE doesn't play for you or do some sort of action while you go AFK

DIYCE is not A BOT

you still have to sit on your butt, press a key, use a mouse,

and if you think that DIYCE is giving other players an unfair advantage, then its openly there, you can use it too....

but some people will claim, "naw I DONT want to use DIYCE, i want to play manually, i have skills that kills, gives me the thrills"

then so be it, stop the QQ on DIYCE,

Quoted from "ghostwolf82"

aardvark, you do realize that you can't just press the DIYCE macro once and it does everything, right? That's not how the DIYCE that is available works. Now, if someone has the ability to make it do that, then they have made it into a bot, and that one person should be banned for botting, not the program they chose to exploit. Uberflex did that, DIYCE does not (as available currently to the open market).

So you use zero addons? No wowmaps? No dailyquest? no changes to the UI? nothing at all? If you have even one addon, you are a hypocrite. If not, then you are insane, as this game is so badly designed graphically speaking.

WoW doesn't have DIYCE, but it has a much more in depth macro ability. You can make macros in WoW that you can't make here, this game is different from WoW...who knew?! However, WoW has quite the extensive addon community, as do most blizzard games. So to say most other games don't allow them is a fallacy.

I don't have a single add on. Not a single change to the UI . I don't even use macros. I play this game clean. The game is easily playable without macros, add ons etc if you learn how play your character without aids. Even in your post you admit that diyce can be abused to bot. But then you blame the person not the program. Any program that can be used to create a bot should be banned. By eliminating the program you can eliminate all the bots that it will spawn. Gamester has little or no staff as it is policing the game now you have to decide at which point diyce becomes a bot not just an aid and you have used all the staff time and produced nothing that adds to the game. Add ons like this are why the staff is concerned about the new AFK rules and not fixing the problems with quests, siege and adding the missing items to the cash shop and sales. That is why it should be banned.

i HATE diyce but...

even though we were asked not to speak about diyce i just need to add a few important things...

1. Diyce sucks when fighting against a player that has it, but it is indeed an optional addon.. dont complain about it

2. Diyce could be banned but its just a name, to stop the addon they would have to block a significant amount of their lua coding (not going to happen)

3. Anyone can make a similar addon from scratch with basic lua coding skills and name it whatever you want

4. Banning an addon because it is a button mashing addon is stupid (it still functions around cooldowns and GCD)-((except where lag comes into play and several skills go off at the same time due to lag but that happens without diyce as well sometimes))

5. with slightly more advanced coding skills you can indeed turn to diyce into a fully functional bot (including movement and looting) with the available combinations of events and functions

----

addons are not evil, just some of the people that use them are, i have a few from curseclient myself but the majority of my addons i create on my own...

if you have no addons then you are missing out on a very in depth aspect of a fully customizable game

as for the NEW AFK RULES... WHO CARES! its the same things we already knew, now its just officially typed up so you can read it, if you didnt know PAC was bannable by sitting next to the pet vendor then you need to read alot of the forums or just do a forum search for it, attacking a mob that will never die or fight back has never been worthy of a ban and LOOK AT THAT! its still not!

the rules are not new, they are just in plain sight now for everyone that claims, "i never knew that was against the rules"

I will also talk about diyce again hopefully to get this ridiculous thread closed. Ci

Quoted from "aardvark3"

Add ons like this are why the staff is concerned about the new AFK rules and not fixing the problems with quests, siege and adding the missing items to the cash shop and sales. That is why it should be banned.

Lets Ban all the italian players cause the staff is concerned about them having a new server too. Lets Ban Happy hours cause the staff has focused on them and not fixing quests. Staff would you please ban yourself for coming into the game and helping people with problem quests cause that is taking away from Cash shop sales and missing items.

"Addons like this" you are once again misunderstanding that diyce has nothing to do with the AFK problem being addressed. NADA, NOPE, SORRY, TRY AGAIN. In fact the entire GM post mentioned not one thing about diyce. Play the game with no add ons or macro if you want. If you feel that makes you a better person than rock on. Don't try to punish or shove your way of playing on everyone else. But as I said before Diyce is never going anywhere as it is accepted by the majority of players and staff alike so find a genie and you might get your wish.

actually, Mrpushpop, Italian players wont have to be banned... the server will run nice for a short time, we all know it.

eventually though it will meet the same fate as every other server, and most likely will end up like AUS (sorry AUS peeps but its true)...

to all the people moving to the Italian server, best of luck and may you get enough joy from your new (probably "ancient") server to stick around a while, if not then come to the US servers, we would love having more players

Nothing to be sorry about there Karma, AU has been fked thanks to the management of this game for almost a year, we all know that and if anyone should be saying sorry its those that run it (aka, gameforge).

nah im not sorry about AUS state of their server, its been that way for a long time and not my fault at all lol, im sorry that the Italian server even "new" is headed the same direction since its release

Since DIYCE is such a hot topic in the AFK thread I figured Id create a new thread for you all to spew in.

My opinion on DIYCE (regardless of whether its accepted by rom at the moment or not), is that it does automate things that should not be automated. When you can press one button (regardless whether its once or more times per fight) and your entire rotations are done for you that is AUTOMATION. Even if you press the same button 3-6 times per fight. I ask myself why bother playing RoM at all if you want the computer to do all the work for you. Part of the fun of playing is human error.

For those of you crying that your character has so many hard rotations and you couldn't play without DIYCE, I say invest in a 10 button mouse program all your skills into it .... problem solved. I use not only a 10 button mouse gut a 22 button programmable gamepad. All my key skills are programmed in to the 32 buttons one way or another and is ON ME to hit the right button in the right order. I don't require my computer to do it for me. That being said I will miss hit sometimes and thats part of the fun of it.

I of course play RoM way to often and the buttons are memorized in my head like clockwork but its still ON ME to press them and I still have to be aware. DIYCE requires no real thinking at all. Regardless of whether you self programmed it or copied the code from someone else.

As for programming buffs/pots MACROS can do that part. In this case its simply avoiding you having to press all the buff buttons by doing them all in one shot. THIS IS OK because its NOT AUTOMATING THE FIGHT for you its just saving you a few clicks.

This is just my opinion for better or worse I m sure there will be a bunch of replies on either side of the fence. I stand by my opinion the DIYCE is nothing but a lazy mans dps and should be banned.

i don't even know why DIYCE came up in this conversation, so all ill say is this:

I don't use it, I don't have a want to use it, I have messed around with it (because i am like a coding junkie, i LOVE to program, or set stuff up and dig through xmls and find out how they work), but I see nothing wrong with it. It is not automation, it is not botting, and it isn't something that I really think needs to be removed... however if it is, I aint gonna cry either.


PAC while afk, I am hoping people have finally gotten the reason it is bannable now. If you could get honor points while afk, get p tokens while afk, gold while afk, mats while afk, or xp/tp while afk.... it is a bot. Deal with it. You don't need to be able to walk away from your keyboard, come back and have profited in anyway. I mean I didn't need a rule/explanation to teach me this.....

"Part of the fun"... that is how you feel about it. That is your opinion. You are trying to force your opinion on us all, and to make us live with what YOU deem fair and right. This is like abortion rights...

You say macros are OK... you do realize that DIYCE is just a REALLY advanced macro, right? To quote you: "It's just saving you a few clicks". You use an advanced mouse to do a lot for you, to make playing easier so you don't have to move your hand all over the place... that's what DIYCE allows people to do as well.

"Part of the fun" of the game for me is to figure out my rotation on any given toon, and then put that into code format, and then see how well that code comes out to work properly in the gameplay.

This is like those people who watch a TV show and get offended, but rather than just change the channel, they write to someone to complain about it.
It all comes down to this: Don't like it? Don't use it. Pretty simple.

Quoted from "Dkjester"

i don't even know why DIYCE came up in this conversation, so all ill say is this:

I don't use it, I don't have a want to use it, I have messed around with it (because i am like a coding junkie, i LOVE to program, or set stuff up and dig through xmls and find out how they work), but I see nothing wrong with it. It is not automation, it is not botting, and it isn't something that I really think needs to be removed... however if it is, I aint gonna cry either.


PAC while afk, I am hoping people have finally gotten the reason it is bannable now. If you could get honor points while afk, get p tokens while afk, gold while afk, mats while afk, or xp/tp while afk.... it is a bot. Deal with it. You don't need to be able to walk away from your keyboard, come back and have profited in anyway. I mean I didn't need a rule/explanation to teach me this.....

Except for, you know, the many ingame functions that allow you to do just that. Library, Guild Castle Mats, Crafting, afk weapon training; all of which are not bannable.

Whatever. As long as you're not sitting at the pet vendor pet crafting it doesn't really matter. Craft away in your house. Do what I always did and fill up your bag with tools and go to bed. Unless someone reports you or the GM's pick YOUR house, out of the hundreds of thousands of players to randomly visit, you're not going to get banned. They can't actually enforce this. They can't even enforce the no botting rule or no goldselling rule when it's extremely obvious who to ban.

Ah another opinion of " I don't use it so no one else should" "Everyone should have to follow my rules" Sorry Mr.Daniel, lucky for the logical side we will not be seeing any type of diyce ban so you might just want to move on and pick up another flag that has a purpose. I have no problem with you not using diyce.Be careful with this argument because the way you worded it, you cannot not use any addon that makes life easier. For instance, fusion or arcane upgrade for combining/making PFS and dirty stones. This addon is accepted however automates more than diyce. You can even go afk and leave fusion running. I hope your hate for automation of all kinds carries over to all addons or you are a hypocrite.

Quoted from "danielrayment"

As for programming buffs/pots MACROS can do that part. In this case its simply avoiding you having to press all the buff buttons by doing them all in one shot. THIS IS OK because its NOT AUTOMATING THE FIGHT for you its just saving you a few clicks.

This quote makes me laugh. Macros are ok but diyce (which is a macro) is not. Diyce is a macro command telling rom to activate a command based out of a list of commands. I saves you no clicks (less automation). Prime example of why diyce is helpful.. I have a warlock skill called ruthless judgement that i should use after the boss has 20% hp or less that greatly increases my attack. I can continue to focus on skills the boss is casting/ buffing other players/ decide if I should battle rez a key player that went down. My diyce command (which still requires a button press every skill, not automation btw) is built in a way that when i press my macro if psi is full, and if boss hp is less than 20% cast ruthless judgement instead of FHS/SBS. This is HELPFUL, Could I do it myself YEP, Would I make errors from time to time YEP, does diyce make errors NOPE. Diyce makes me a better player and my guild appreciates it when I do more dps. I worked hard on my rotation and have never shared my diyce.

My main point is I don't walk around trying to shove diyce in your face. Why are you trying (unsuccessfully) to get it banned for the rest of us.

The diyce argument is a silly one to begin with. They can't ban it. They tried that before and it ruined the macro system completely. They can't ban Diyce without disabling most macro functions that Diyce uses. Even if they wanted to, banning DIYCE without ruining macro's for everyone is simply not possible. Not to mention they probably can't really tell who's using DIYCE and who isn't. So they'd have to disable the functions altogether to get rid of it.

The only issue I have with diyce is when it is used in siege..... I think it's bs that people rely on a program to pop immunes/skills/what ever else to get an advantage over others in a PvP situation. PvE, go ahead, doesnt directly effect anyone other than those in your party (usually by making the run easier, so not a bad thing). Only my personal opinion but I leave it on the same level as using romeo to gain an advantage.

I agree with Cammo, the only problem I have with the DIYCE as it is right now is in siege. If your using it to break the GCD on a skill that's no kosher and is a big problem, like wardens running it for Charged Chop, there is no way on earth I should be getting hit 3 times from a 2 handed weapon 1/4second after I come out of hide no matter how big the raid rune in it is

Borella the big difference with your examples... one is built by the game... one is built by a 3rd party. Hence why PAC would be bannable, and not the others. So you hit it right on the head when you said "many INGAME functions ". PAC is not an ingame function.

Now if they had built the pet crafting to use up as many mats as you had in your bag that is different... but they didn't. So yes my general rule still stands, don't expect to be able to walk away from the keyboard and gain anything.... The thing is there are some things that the game is allowing us to do, which would normally under that rule be bannable... take their kindness and move on. Don't get all huffy that they didn't include something that you want in that list.


It really isn't that hard.


now as far as your comment about "do it anyway, you wont get banned" (paraphrasing not quoting), gosh do I kinda hope someone reports your characters when they see them on all night. Cause by promoting using something that has been said is against the rule, you are doing no better than any botter, gold seller, etc. More importantly I hope the mods send your account info to support and they start watching you more.... man what a dumb thing to say on the forums.... almost as dumb as just straight saying you bot.

I report botters all day when I see them... they disappear. They gave us the tool so that we the players can help police things... if you aren't using it, that is your own fault.

I am pretty sure that is not a diyce problem though. A warden friend of mine can spam the skill button on his action bar and do the same thing.