Runes of Magic US / AU

Actually you don't need DIYCE "to break GCD", it's game issue with GCD skills (or in that case 1sec CD), probably same works for M/S shot... In PvE it doesn't matter you fire X skills in 1sec, than you will have X sec CD for any in-game action. Same happens with P/S ice blade before 3s CD and same happens with any no CD skill, just most of them have restricted "energy" pool, so you do not see rouge with shadowstab spam etc.

As for DIYCE. First of all it's not so perfect. Actually using DIYCE means over 20% less skills, than you can use normally pressing one key, so I can manually "cast" CC 118-121 times during 2min and only 88-98 using DIYCE. The problem is that if your character have any rotation, you have to use one skill, than another, check boss debuffs etc, DIYCE do it all for you and do not make mistakes - EVER. So usually you can gain about 10-20% of DPS using DIYCE, but there would be fights where you actually will do less DPS. Besides making DIYCE do everything for you is really stupid.
Let's say, that some boss cast spell X, that have to be interrupted. Whole PT is using DIYCE, so first cast everyone interrupt, second well if you are lucky, there is some guy, that have another skill to interrupt, third time you are supper lucky and another one, forth get some lottery ticket CDs from first time wears off, 5-th sorry dead. Same with mana/hp pot, using any burns and doing whole boss tactic.
Don't get me wrong I still thing DIYCE is great tool making game much simpler, usually buffing DPS etc. The problem is that first off all you still have to know instance and most of all your char, to make own combo and use it properly (when you simply copy/paste combo, than it usually wouldn't work for you). The only problem I can see is that you have to know lua enough to make own combo, but it's simply changes skill names from defaults combos in addon. I use DIYCE myself, but if I will just stay there my DPS would be still 10-20% lower than it is now and I will fail more often.... Without DIYCE I would be probably at current DPS lvl, maybe with little more fails (than know and probably same, than using only DYICE) in first month, as I would have to adjust.

ur pro or ur noob, thats life

and pros dont diyce

Figured I'd separate this from the AFK PAC discussion.

Answer to the thread is NO. Question answered. Plz close the pointless discussion. If you want to know why the answer is NO then send a email in to the staff and ask and get the same answer.

Quoted from "TWMXC"

ur pro or ur noob, thats life

and pros dont diyce

As long as "pro" can outDPS DIYCE and from my experience it's close to impossible. Besides someone using DIYCE is still not a noob, lazy person maybe, but noob is something different, well maybe those using some find on the net combo...

Quoted from "TWMXC"

ur pro or ur noob, thats life

and pros dont diyce

i would live to see "pros" like u to hit 4 skills per second as r/wd without messinng up your keyboard.
oh but ... wait ... u must be another r/m afk-sheep

basic macro use versus advanced DiYCE use are not NOT THE SAME anyone that says so is just wrong.

Basic macro use for rogue ... apply assains rage, fervent attack and informer with one click. Not automating rotations saves a click or two should be allowable.

Advanced DIYCE use.... press one key say ... 'T' repeat pressing T 3 times ... during which the T key will automatically pick the BEST available hit or in case of rotations automate shadstab, low blow, wound attack checking your rogue energy each time and monitoring cd count. < - AUTOMATION

Learn to play so the computer don't have to play for you.

I just can't stand noobs who DIYCE in siege. so noop guise.

No, you shouldn't be banned because it's not botting. You're there, pressing a button to automate 1,000 automations, w/o having to use your brain.

1-key button smashing, if you like that kind of thing.

Quoted from "danielrayment"

Learn to play so the computer don't have to play for you.

LOL great, you know how to play the game, so what's the point about if other people are using DIYCE....

they are still there infront of the computer pressing a button...

cool you can play rom with your own fingers, so was the DIYCE users...

if people think using DIYCE will give an advantage, then learn to use it too...

and whats the problem with using DIYCE in siege??? most people usually die in a hit or two, and no DIYCE DOES NOT MAKE YOUR SKILLS FASTER THEN THE GCD...

its pointless to discuss any further, cause DIYCE does NOT break any TOS VIOLATIONS...

play your own way, hell even some people saying DICYE users are NOOBS, you guys are PROS without using DIYCE, soo your point is???

Quoted from "Dkjester"

now as far as your comment about "do it anyway, you wont get banned" (paraphrasing not quoting), gosh do I kinda hope someone reports your characters when they see them on all night. Cause by promoting using something that has been said is against the rule, you are doing no better than any botter, gold seller, etc. More importantly I hope the mods send your account info to support and they start watching you more.... man what a dumb thing to say on the forums.... almost as dumb as just straight saying you bot.

I report botters all day when I see them... they disappear. They gave us the tool so that we the players can help police things... if you aren't using it, that is your own fault.

I don't actually use PAC anymore.. simply because what use do I have for pots when I don't play. But ooh i'm really scared. *Rolls eyes* At this point it doesn't really matter if they ban me. This game has gone down the toilet.

As for your final sentence, it is not our job to police the game. That is their job. The fact that they're getting you to do it for them is just hilarious. Maybe you should ask for a job with them. Their own paid employees are doing less work than the players are.

My opinion still stands. You're not going to get banned for using PAC all night in your house. They don't have the resources to ban people doing illegal crap out in the open, you think they're going to check every single house on every single server to find people using PAC? They can't even hire enough people to read a forum and put up a good sale.

Quoted from "danielrayment"

Advanced DIYCE use.... press one key say ... 'T' repeat pressing T 3 times ... during which the T key will automatically pick the BEST available hit or in case of rotations automate shadstab, low blow, wound attack checking your rogue energy each time and monitoring cd count. < - AUTOMATION

Definition of AUTOMATION

1
: the technique of making an apparatus, a process, or a system operate automatically
2
: the state of being operated automatically
3
: automatically controlled operation of an apparatus, process, or system by mechanical or electronic devices that take the place of human labor - "Automation." Merriam-Webster.com. Merriam-Webster, n.d. Web. 19 Oct. 2013. <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/automation>

Its now time for Fun Facts with Lilpacker -
Does Diyce fulfill all the parts of a definition of automation and therefore qualify that Daniel is not once again wrong
1.Does Diyce operate automatically - NOPE - It requires a human to be present and make each action happen
2. Does Diyce take the place of human labor - NOPE - A human must still sit at a keyboard and press a key for an action to happen. A human must then press said key again to make another thing happen. Keys must be pressed over and over to continue a rotation. Dare I say that for my diyce (I don't have buffing macro's) the exact number of keys used with diyce = the exact number of keys used without diyce. Warp charge vs. diyce using warp charge.

You sir might want to pick another word because according to the dictionary you are wrong. Diyce is not in fact automation.

Quoted from "Mrpushpop"

Quoted from "danielrayment"

Advanced DIYCE use.... press one key say ... 'T' repeat pressing T 3 times ... during which the T key will automatically pick the BEST available hit or in case of rotations automate shadstab, low blow, wound attack checking your rogue energy each time and monitoring cd count. < - AUTOMATION

Definition of AUTOMATION

1
: the technique of making an apparatus, a process, or a system operate automatically
2
: the state of being operated automatically
3
: automatically controlled operation of an apparatus, process, or system by mechanical or electronic devices that take the place of human labor - "Automation." Merriam-Webster.com. Merriam-Webster, n.d. Web. 19 Oct. 2013. <http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/automation>

Its now time for Fun Facts with Lilpacker -
Does Diyce fulfill all the parts of a definition of automation and therefore qualify that Daniel is not once again wrong
1.Does Diyce operate automatically - NOPE - It requires a human to be present and make each action happen
2. Does Diyce take the place of human labor - NOPE - A human must still sit at a keyboard and press a key for an action to happen. A human must then press said key again to make another thing happen. Keys must be pressed over and over to continue a rotation. Dare I say that for my diyce (I don't have buffing macro's) the exact number of keys used with diyce = the exact number of keys used without diyce. Warp charge vs. diyce using warp charge.

You sir might want to pick another word because according to the dictionary you are wrong. Diyce is not in fact automation.

You defeated your own definition:

When you push a key and more than one action happens it is automation. So if you press a key and more than one buff takes place it is automation. If you press a key and more than one attack takes place it is automation.

Buffing a character is several actions one for each buff. If you hit only one key and more than one buff takes place it is automation.

[If you press a key and only one buff takes place it is not automation if you press a key and more than one buff takes place it is automation. Same rule works for attacks. If you have to click a different key for each type of attack (shot then vampire arrow ) hitting 2 keys is not automated . Hitting one key and having (shot and vampire arrow) both take place is automation.

The other definition is if you can press the same key and have different things happen, If you press the same key 3 times and have 3 different buffs take place every time in a specific order it is also automation because you have eliminated human error from the equation.

By your definition if it saves human effort or error it is automation : So if diyce saves one key stroke or allows you to hit the same key or sets an order that prevents human error it is automation.

While DIYCE may not technically be a bot, there is a side of the argument about the legitimacy of its use that hasn't been covered: the effects of having near instantaneous reaction time in a game where skills presuppose normal human reaction time. This is of primary importance in PvP settings, much less so in PvE. Consider some of the following scenarios:
1)Skill range and travel time should be assumed to be balanced around reaction time vs. movement speed. Some skills are clearly intended to keep you out of range of other players based on your speed compared to their speed assuming normal reaction time. Naturally, an opponent with more speed than you should be able to negate some of this range advantage based, again, on normal reaction time. If reaction time becomes near instantaneous, then this benefit of speed countering range becomes almost nonexistent. That is to say, reaction times far faster than game balance assumes can have a deleterious effect on said balance.
2)Attack time to connect can also be said to be balanced around similar principles, with an added factor of latency balancing. That is, attacks can be said to connect a certain time after input, and that time is made such that minor differences in latency don't create compounded imbalances. This assumes normal reaction time, again. Proportional to attack time to connect, time to use items is considerably smaller. Normally this imbalance is, again, made balanced by, or perhaps exists because of, reaction time. Make reaction time negligibly small, and you run into situations where an attack you make from invis can be negated by a well made DIYCE setup in the time between attack input and attack connection.
3)Target-breakable CC should also be assumed to work on a similar reaction time basis, else the resources and cooldown used in using the skill are essentially wasted as skill duration approaches zero with reaction time.

Just some implicit game balance assumptions that seem to be missed in these arguments

Well good point there, but it only applies IMO to bad rouges in PvP and good DIYCE user. Probably 50% of the fights where rouge will fail would end up same, but still there is 50% where rouge fighting exact same player would win. It isn't you can't do exact same thing without DIYCE, but you will have to use some in-game macro or click two different keys, as this works like that:

Rogue comes by you in hide, hits you without stun, so his hit and yours is in about same time (target and hit with DIYCE - you have to spam DIYCE before even knowing there is rouge, and spamming one key during whole SW is....), when usually it will take DK 0,5-1s to react, second hit still same time etc... So simply higher hits/hp combination would win, when without DIYCE/macro rouge would have 1 hit advantage. Don't know if I have clarify it well enough, but it's the only situation when reaction time is so important.

Any other PvP situation, when reaction can be crucial is retargeting and it's faster manually for ranged classes for melee not so important (and again making well macro for targeting will do the job). Of course it's only discussion about reaction time, as comboing is different pair of shoes.

For range vs. speed it would be true, if you could actually run away from hits like fireball and it will simply fallow you wherever you go. Actually only skills, that you can talk there about are ones with 2 sec cast and normally DIYCE would not help, as it will tigger action after DMG received, when player can and should react prior to that.

I also do not know if discussion about DIYCE in PvP have any sense, as PvP is totally unbalanced in the first place. And the only class that was getting serious buff from using DIYCE in PvP was P/S prior IB changes.

Someone make a diyce for my healer and i'll be fine, not to heal or anything, just to use candy/pots with h/so low or if i get hit/target by a certain person. do this, write the code. teach me your nerd ways of this code/using it, and ill be happy. That way i can eliminate human error of using pots/candy Jus tliek the rest of you "pros"

IMO DIYCE is not a bot itself but it can be used for botting in conjunction with a third party program that spams DIYCE. Too many well known botters in Palenque do that 24/7. Although can do the same with macros, so I don't think that should be banned their good usage due some people use them for bad purposes.

In my opinion DIYCE is not a bot. Also, in my opinion, if you use ingame macros/skills etc without external programs, it should not be considered botting as well.

That being said, I am not fun of it, I did not use it to dps and was fine, but I am not going to tell other if they should/should not use it. I do however strongly against any macros/dyice during siege, in my opinion they should be disabled. It takes fun out of sw otherwise, as it should be about your skill, not robot helping you

My 2 cents