Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "aardvark3"

To phrase it in its simplest terms. Everyone has said cheating is bad and should be banned but some people are saying diyce is how I cheat so don't ban it.

Really! I scrolled back and not a soul said that. What has been said is... Gameforge has a broken GCD, Diyce users are able to the error just like non - Diyce users and it was summed up as gameforge needs to fix the GCD error. It was also stated that spamming a skill on your action bar is more effective for those who are trying to break the GCD. Cheating is bad however if diyce was cheating it would have been banned years ago but it has not and will not because it uses the same macros that anyone can set up in game under macro commands.

Basically if DIYCE is cheating so is AAH, aggro addons and dozens others that provides some advantage over users not using it. Besides DIYCE is also hitting skills slower, so has downside of using and I do not see any in ex. AAH, Fusion, UMM etc... So let's simply block all addons/macros and close game, as without addons many things here are just stupid.

Honestly guys.. at the end of the day, Botting is a simple concept. You don't need to know the mechanics or whatnot behind it but we ALL KNEW that dog farming bots were bots. They ran around, killed dogs and did nothing else.

DIYCE is a clever use of the in-game addon/macro system that makes gaming more fun for some people. I don't use it, but never understood the animosity towards it. Like the original author wrote, this addon was designed for handicapped people that wanted to enjoy the game more. If "single button pushers" is your way of saying people don't have the skillz to be elite, then sure. Does everyone strive to be elite? nope.

I will say that I use in-game macros to maximize my toons' abilities. Does that make me a cheater? *shrugs* in some people's views, sure! I used to think that way when I started playing RoM since I came from a game that had no macros; so macro'ing was cheating. ...and Lo and Behold! RoM not only embraces macro's, but an entire LUA library to write addons. Basically, RW designed RoM in such a way that players could extend the game themselves and make it more enjoyable.

OTOH, GF does not appreciate FULL AUTOMATION -- hence botting.

The 2 have nothing to do with one another. Tools are tools. Use 'em or not. Botting is a mindset... I wanna get something out of RoM, but refuse to grind it myself. See the distinction? People will bot even if the in-game tools were not available IF they have a botting mindset; but that doesn't mean the in-game tools and addons written by players necessarily are botting.

For the most part, DIYCE isn't botting... can it be written to be bot-ish? I'm sure someone could modify it that way, but that's the same w/ any tool.

Ycavan that is the best post on this thread. Moderators you should wipe the thread clean, leave Ycavan's post and close the thread as it is the answer solution and most logical response here.

Quoted from "Mrpushpop"

Ycavan that is the best post on this thread. Moderators you should wipe the thread clean, leave Ycavan's post and close the thread as it is the answer solution and most logical response here.

I fully agree

Ycavan, thanks for a really good summary.

LOL ycanvan thread doesn't say anything useful.

Those of you who keep comparing basic macro use to DIYCE really have no clue what your talking about and probably have no clue what programming is. I have a degree in comp sci programming (and can appreciate the work GW put into his addon and even the intent of the addon). Bottom line is if the coding used involves IF branches of logic to do things its probably doing things beyond the scope of human usage. Basic macros don't use IF statements they just do things to save having to click 50 buttons to prep (buff) your char before going into a fight. If I literally had to click 50 buttons to do tamb/lute/fervent/crit food/assasins rage etc... my lute count down would be up before I ever got the chance to fight something. DIYCE goes far beyond BASIC to a point where people can AUTOMATE fight rotations, abuse GCD brokenness and have the computer itself do all the leg work of checking rogue energy/skill cds and even apply pots like potion of exquisite skill (if energy is too low) all by pressing a single key. Since I don't play anything but rogue I can only give rogue examples, but I also know that wardens and other combos can REALLY take advantage of DIYCE more than rogues. IF anyone that knows other combos can explain feel free to elaborate on this post.

Stop trying to compare basic macro use with advance DIYCE usage. Apples to oranges, stick with apples to apples.

Why do you define 'basic macros' as those that don't have if else commands in them? You can even have macros with a list of /cast commands that will use the first skill in the list that is available, that doesn't even need to use GetActionUsable or a conditional.

Macros can use conditional variables. If it was not meant to be possible, then the lua library could be altered so that you could no longer read resource levels or whatever else.

le sigh... everyone and their mother has experience w/ programming. I'm not trying to dis your degree, but I've had many years of programming/scripting from 680x0 assembly/machine code all the way up to C/C++, php, perl, etc... designing applications/tools for firms and I'm still saying that an addon like DIYCE still pretty much requires a person to hit a button.

Until something changes that prevents that 1 button press, GF still considers a person is there since that button must be pressed.

Now, someone could point out that a nefarious individual could have an external program/device that does that button clicking for the DIYCE user and thus DIYCE must be considered a botting tool... well, let's go back to the part where an EXTERNAL program/device is driving the botting; not the DIYCE tool itself. ie, botting mindset vs. tool.

& yes, a simple macro can be used to do a lot of what ppl use DIYCE for, ie:

/run If GetActionUsable(x) then CastSpellByName(y);else if GetActionUsable(z) then CastSpellByName(a);else if UnitSkill("player")>30 then CastSpellByName(b);else CastSpellByName(c);end;end;end

^-- Basically says, if Action Bar slot X is available, cast the spell Y; otherwise check to see if Action Bar slot Z is available, cast spell A; otherwise check to see if the 2nd bar ( rage/focus/whatever ) is greater than 30 for our 30 rage/focus/whatever skill and cast spell B; OTHERWISE cast the default spell C

see? basic macro... and that is exactly how DIYCE works.

All of the modifications that you make for your rotation, in DIYCE, are simply being put into an array of conditions and effects.

oh snap, someone just got told!!!

and btw, the macro example of what ycavan posted just needs a push of ONE button, and everything gets executed, but in DIYCE every action requires a reaction, so if that example was put into DIYCE, you would have to press or smash that button for each action or condition to happen.


i still dont know the reason why BAN DIYCE was brought up anyways, someone please please explain again ????

that not a basic macro that's advanced use of macros, I don't / wont use any kind of macro that lets the computer do decision making. Take If logic branching out of the user programming interface and nobody can complain. I don't want to see macros like the one below gone from user interface so I am clear to distinguish BASIC from ADVANCED.

I don't care for macros that let users swap gears apply title buffs/ Varnas Nightare skill sets then swap back either ... that's advanced macro usage.



BASIC MACRO ....

/cast Yawaka's Blessing
/wait 1.5;
/cast Magic Barrier
/Wait 1.5;
/cast Assasins Rage


btw this I not a macro I use just making a sample.

chouji, the macro I put up would require 1 button press every time too :)

ie, each time a condition is matched, the macro ends; that's why I always put in a final condition that executes. :)

so... exactly the same as DIYCE; just more specialized

to be more specific, I do this for my k/m for HLD ( Holy Light Domain )... it's an instant aoe that deals magic light damage every 2 seconds, buffs pdef/mdef 25% and puts a debuff on the target that reduces their damage by 17% & it lasts 6 seconds. So... it really doesn't make sense to keep pressing the button every 6 seconds; so I put it in my threat mix.

The macro I use does the following each click:
1. Do I have the HLD buff? if no, then cast HLD - end
2. Do I have EA buff? if no, then cast EA - end
3. Is Threaten available? if yes, then cast Threaten - end
4. Default: Cast WWS - end

Since k/m's real damage is based on white hits, I target the boss.. fire off silence for the 4 stacks & hit him w/ Truth Shield Bash for the 20.1% hp resistance & then spam my threat mix key.

& Daniel, I get where you're coming from. :) When I first started playinng RoM, I came from a game that BANNED users that used macros -- but that was because they weren't part of the game.

The biggest thing to realize is that LUA is a part of the game and it is a programming language that is, once again, a part of this game. Macros can be basic, like you pointed out.. perform an action, wait.. perform next action, wait... etc... but the real "magic" of RoM is having the LUA scripting available as part of the Macro system.

nvrmnd, Ycavan answered better than I ever could...

What I would like to know from those of you that have issue with DIYCE is specifically what you do not like. I am not a coder, and I can do about 80% of what DIYCE does with in game macros. I can auto-target and use specific skills with in game macros. People auto use items like candy with things other than DIYCE.

no dude the real magic of rom is learning how to play your character without having the computer to everything for you based on your scripts or copying other scripts. if you want to be a programmer go find some C++ and program there, the rest of us who want to enjoy rom for what it is a gaming experience would like to know the playing field is even across the board and that we don't have to use advanced scripting to keep pace with those that do. Not everyone that plays rom is a programming genius and can abuse the scripting language (even though I can I don't as I choose not to).

Quoted from "danielrayment"

no dude the real magic of rom is learning how to play your character without having the computer to everything for you based on your scripts or copying other scripts. if you want to be a programmer go find some C++ and program there, the rest of us who want to enjoy rom for what it is a gaming experience would like to know the playing field is even across the board and that we don't have to use advanced scripting to keep pace with those that do. Not everyone that plays rom is a programming genius and can abuse the scripting language (even though I can I don't as I choose not to).

The true magic of Rom is you can play however you want and be successful. You can choose not to use diyce and play just as well you will just make a mistake every now and then cause your human. Diyce does not impact the game enough for drastic differences in gameplay. Some people claim diyce slow them down, others say its faster than them. These statements alone show me diyce does not impact the overall gameplay enough to warrant the claim you must use Diyce to keep up. If you cannot keep up with another player it has nothing to do with diyce. It has to do with you, your stats/rotation/runes/skills/tp something is missing. Rom has so many variables that no 2 players are exactly alike so all players will do different amounts of damage. Alot of trolls here are blaming Diyce for there own incompetence to keep up.

Quoted from "Mrpushpop"

Quoted from "danielrayment"

no dude the real magic of rom is learning how to play your character without having the computer to everything for you based on your scripts or copying other scripts. if you want to be a programmer go find some C++ and program there, the rest of us who want to enjoy rom for what it is a gaming experience would like to know the playing field is even across the board and that we don't have to use advanced scripting to keep pace with those that do. Not everyone that plays rom is a programming genius and can abuse the scripting language (even though I can I don't as I choose not to).

The true magic of Rom is you can play however you want and be successful. You can choose not to use diyce and play just as well you will just make a mistake every now and then cause your human. Diyce does not impact the game enough for drastic differences in gameplay. Some people claim diyce slow them down, others say its faster than them. These statements alone show me diyce does not impact the overall gameplay enough to warrant the claim you must use Diyce to keep up. If you cannot keep up with another player it has nothing to do with diyce. It has to do with you, your stats/rotation/runes/skills/tp something is missing. Rom has so many variables that no 2 players are exactly alike so all players will do different amounts of damage. Alot of trolls here are blaming Diyce for there own incompetence to keep up.

PERSONNALY I don't need DIYCE to keep up but that's because I have put a lot of time/love into learning how to play my character and thought into button programming on my mouse and gamepad. Guaranteed most people that use DIYCE haven't put as much effort into there characters because if they did they wouldn't need DYICE to keep up and they would also not be on this thread arguing pro DIYCE. Those that want to play the game as I do should not have to be at a disadvantage as they build there characters to those that look for the fast/lazy/easy way to play. In the same way DIYCE clearly has a larger impact on some characters more than others, aka a good rogue will hate DIYCE but wardens claim its absolutely necessary to play. Why should rogues have the disadvantage here since the wardens simply choose to be lazy and not make the effort. (PLEASE don't spam about rogues op'ness this is just a sample I can use a mage or whatever else if need be I simply used rogue cause I am a rogue and know the DIYCE is fail software for experienced rogues)


DIYCE is and always will be the lazy mans fast tracking way to DPS and thats all there is to it.

Quoted from "danielrayment"

DIYCE is and always will be the lazy mans fast tracking way to DPS and thats all there is to it.

Although I disagree with you greatly here (I have explained my views previously). I will add a 3rd option for you. I used to only play rogue myself at that time my views were more narrow minded as yours. I now play a lock/mage and I use so many skills that my 240m tp still does not come close to maxing several skills in my rotation. Depending on my roll in a boss fight, I have a lot of things to watch/do. Some of it I have built into diyce, some is better done with human logic, and other pieces diyce is not capable/ or I am not capable of telling it what I want. So say my main dps damage burn, I let diyce handle, yes I could do it myself but I would probably miss manually casting a buff on a rogue or mage. If I need to go into construct state (willpower state is dps) I will manually cast these skills as it usually a boss debuff or battle rez and that is better to be decided on when and how by me. Certain fights, mainly the ice boss on Beth HM.. I need to be watching my debuffs at all time and constantly moving diyce is invaluable here as I am not a rouge with instant hits and all my cast times need to be placed well with movement and a fast manual cast of my magical immune in case i get that damn 5 sec ice freeze debuff. I am not "lazy for using diyce for a piece of my battle, I am better for it due to everything I have going on. The average dps does not need to worry about the same things I do. A mage is about the closest thing to a lock/mage but without the party buffs to worry about. Can I play the game without diyce YES, but for ME it works. Should your views as a rogue penalize me , nope and I glad they won't.

Quoted from "danielrayment"

I am a rogue and know the DIYCE is fail software for experienced rogues

what a joke.. u really have no idea about r/wd, dont u. i dare u to outdps a r/wd that uses diyce with exactly same gear. stop that foolishness. if u want to use diyce, use it. if u dont, just silence cause u just humiliating urself.

Another thought - Diyce is an addon. Rom allows addon's. An addon is an game enhancement built by the player base. Fusion is an addon that will make your tier stones for you even when you afk. Because this does not effect battle there is less controversy about it but it even does this when your afk and it is allowed. Diyce is a macro enhancement. If you don't think the game should be enhanced and everyone should play bare bones then your playing the wrong game as ROM has always supported the player additions.

Well Priest/Scout Iceblade was an ingame skill, no macro or add-on needed at all, but all the incompetent rogues QQ'ued for 80 pages here on the forum about it and got it to get broken by Gameforge. Rogues of Magic and that is what it is. Deadly, you tell us we are incompetent because we don't use Dyice, well apparently you can't play without it, so that should tell you something. Keep on 1 button pushing, you seem very skilled at that.

Macros are supposed to be as Daniel showed you normal macros, but when you can't play your toon well enough, you need external help. But surely you would want everyone to think like you and everyone elses opinions doesn't mean crap, so who's close minded as per your say?.

Let them remove all macros and add-on for a month and see who will QQ the most about it? just those who never learned to play without them.

BTW why would Fusion add-on be any less different than PAC? it's not used to improve your combat skills, defense and what not, it's for people who see the other aspect of the game and the fun involved. But you probaly were against it too, loll. Touch anything that concern rogues and they go insane, luckily i am just Disturbed.

But keep forcing your opinion and vues of Dyice on everyone, tyvm.