Runes of Magic US / AU

My views do not affect you. Your way of playing will not change regardless. I use Diyce does not mean you need too. Your view of Ban diyce does affect me and that is why I am here. You are wrong about me however. I played warlock without diyce for quite some time due to my rogue mindset. I learned my rotations, I played them manually for a long time until someone suggested I try diyce. Since then I never looked back as Diyce allows me (someone who is terrible at multitasking) think about other things during a boss fight that I want to focus on. I am sorry you lost iceblade. As for Fusion and other addon's I have no idea what gameforge thinks and why some addons are ok and others are not. I embrace any addon that is allowed as it is one of the reason this game appeals to me. If you read my post or know anything about warlocks I do not press the 1 button. I clearly explained that I only use diyce for a piece of my fights. My point stands An addon is a game enhancement. Rom allows them. Rom allows Diyce.

Just to clarify a few things for everyone...

This argument has been going on since DIYCE was first introduced, or shortly thereafter. It has not been banned yet, and I really don't see that it will be due to the fact that it is an addon, not third party software. Also, it is not a bot, while it can be turned into one by people with some skill at coding, as is it is not a bot nor a botting program.

Now, my way of describing both sides of this are, and always have been... if you could look up the old threads about this topic you would see this is how I and others have described this over and over again... An analogy to explain it all.

Manual (Stick Shift) vehicles VS. Automatic vehicles
When driving a vehicle, many people learn to drive an automatic because it is easier. Some, like myself, learn to drive a manual and then when we switch over to an automatic, everything is even easier. Just because you drive one or the other doesn't mean you don't get to enjoy the open road and the enhancements to your way of live being able to drive brings you.

The logic that DIYCE should be banned would, when applied to the real world, make it so anyone that does not drive a manual shift vehicle should not be allowed to drive anymore. Ban all automatic transmission vehicles! Do you see how this makes no sense?

Lets apply that logic to something else in the real world... Food. If you don't hunt it, kill it, skin and clean it, and cook it all yourself, you aren't allowed to eat. No more McDonalds. Again, you have to see the problem with this logic?

DIYCE is a choice. It is as simple as that.

My only problem at this point is the people who are not learning anything about DIYCE and then using it anyways. That saddens me, as that was never the intent. That is like someone getting into a vehicle without having a license to do so.

i do understand some people like to cruise along the easy road, i respect that and all. The only problem i have with the add-on are :

People using it to ignore GCD or abusing it to the full extent
People using the dual hack to never be in front of you and always behind, no matter how you try to turn around and face them, you can't.
People using it with see invisible people or in illusion
People defending it and saying it is because of lag that these things happens
Rogues that uses it, attack you invisible, i use throat attack and vampire arrow, they have bleed on and still pop in and out of invisible for the next 20 seconds while still trying to kill me, but surely nothing wrong with that.

I just hate people that cheat/hack to beable to play. Some do use Dyice for evil intent and no morality. Create you own as Ghost said and don't copy paste the dame thing. Those who cheat/hack are not smart enough, they just use outside programs made by people who know what they are doing.

Quoted from "achilleas1"

Quoted from "danielrayment"

I am a rogue and know the DIYCE is fail software for experienced rogues

what a joke.. u really have no idea about r/wd, dont u. i dare u to outdps a r/wd that uses diyce with exactly same gear. stop that foolishness. if u want to use diyce, use it. if u dont, just silence cause u just humiliating urself.

Your right in that I don't know r.wrdn that well, nor do I care. Bring on your r.wrdn try to out dps me WITHOUT DYICE!! All else being somewhat equal. That's kinda the point you seem to think you have to use DYICE to be effective. From what I hear R.wrdn is uber dps because it can take advantage of DYICE adding charged chopped over and above normal rotations. Personnaly I have no idea what charged chop is or what it does nor do I care, what matters is that using DIYCE gives you a clear advantage that most rogues (and other char types ) will not get from using DIYCE.


As for the automatic transmission comparisons it really has nothing to do with anything. Driving is not a game. Now put those cars on a race track and all of a sudden you need to establish rules for fair gameplay. You don't see Indy cars with automatic transmissions, the racing community has standards of gameplay where by all racers must comply to those standards.

Quoted from "zidlef"

Well Priest/Scout Iceblade was an ingame skill, no macro or add-on needed at all, but all the incompetent rogues QQ'ued for 80 pages here on the forum about it and got it to get broken by Gameforge. Rogues of Magic and that is what it is. Deadly, you tell us we are incompetent because we don't use Dyice, well apparently you can't play without it, so that should tell you something. Keep on 1 button pushing, you seem very skilled at that.

Macros are supposed to be as Daniel showed you normal macros, but when you can't play your toon well enough, you need external help. But surely you would want everyone to think like you and everyone elses opinions doesn't mean crap, so who's close minded as per your say?.

Let them remove all macros and add-on for a month and see who will QQ the most about it? just those who never learned to play without them.

BTW why would Fusion add-on be any less different than PAC? it's not used to improve your combat skills, defense and what not, it's for people who see the other aspect of the game and the fun involved. But you probaly were against it too, loll. Touch anything that concern rogues and they go insane, luckily i am just Disturbed.

But keep forcing your opinion and vues of Dyice on everyone, tyvm.

/offtopic

Zid, I advise you to quit while you're behind. You are simply being nothing more than a broken record here. This is a DIYCE discussion, not a discussion of how you or anyone else who plays/played P/S got the shaft. And if you note from my sig I actively played a P/S. And yes, I now play a Rogue/Mage, FOTM. Deal with it, I have. (And in a number of ways, I have more fun playing R/M than I did playing P/S.)

I don't use DIYCE. I prefer to do my own attacks, in my own sweet time, and in my own fumble-fingered ways. I do use one Rogue-specific addon that allows me to simulate DIYCE for Shadowstab. Low Blow, and Wound Attack. Those three attacks, and only those three attacks, using a single key, launched in that specific order, and every one of them obeys the GCD.

I don't give a damn if someone uses DIYCE. That's their choice and bidness. I will state that In My Own Humble Opinion that DIYCE is not a botting program. Use it or don't.

I've used Fusion. It does not give anyone an "unfair advantage" over any other player. It has one main function--it reduces the tedious job of creating mana stones. So, tell me how this is either "unfair" or botting. Wait, never mind, there's no need to add any more off-topic discussion in this thread.

/end off-topic

i have seen this thread going back and forth non stop, im not getting into this diyce fight exactly, but i would like to add something for danielrayment to think about...

simple macro...

/run TargetNearestFriend()
/wait .1
/Cast Urgent Heal

______________________

now why would i do that when i can make it more direct to save myself time and avoid pets and people with full health by using an advanced macro like this one...

/run for i=1,10 do TargetNearestFriend() if UnitIsPlayer("target") then break else TargetUnit("") end end
/run if (UnitHealth("target")/UnitMaxHealth("target")<=.97) then CastSpellByName("Urgent Heal") else TargetUnit("") end

___________________________

that macro saves me a ton of time trying to click a moving teammate or friendly target tabbing through them all...

you can play with basic macros yourself but some people like myself and many others like actually working with the code to make playing slightly easier, however i dont use DPS macros but thats cause im a mage/priest, my skills for boss fights are limited and pvp i use fireball/rising tide/lightning/thunderstorm at range and discharge/purgatory fire when im close to you

if i wanted to could easily make 2 macros 1 for range and 1 for close combat, and just spam that button non stop while hitting tab to swap targets

_________________________________

For Ranged:

/cast Fireball
/cast Rising Tide
/cast Lightning

For Melee range:

/cast Discharge
/cast Purgatory Fire

For Anti-Rogue:

obviously i would just use thunderstorm randomly

________________________________________________

other classes do have complex combos that need to be done in order to hit hard and survive, whether they made a macro to do it or use diyce, the end result is still the same, its about convenience.

Quoted from "danielrayment"

Your right in that I don't know r.wrdn that well, nor do I care. Bring on your r.wrdn try to out dps me WITHOUT DYICE!! All else being somewhat equal. That's kinda the point you seem to think you have to use DYICE to be effective. From what I hear R.wrdn is uber dps because it can take advantage of DYICE adding charged chopped over and above normal rotations. Personnaly I have no idea what charged chop is or what it does nor do I care, what matters is that using DIYCE gives you a clear advantage that most rogues (and other char types ) will not get from using DIYCE.


As for the automatic transmission comparisons it really has nothing to do with anything. Driving is not a game. Now put those cars on a race track and all of a sudden you need to establish rules for fair gameplay. You don't see Indy cars with automatic transmissions, the racing community has standards of gameplay where by all racers must comply to those standards.

For My Own humor I have put in Bold my favorite parts. Maybe you should learn about stuff before you post man. Also a automatic car would get killed in an Indy race because it cannot shift as fast. Your point is crap. If they allow automatic cars no one will use them. If diyce sucked no onewould use it.

Quoted from "karmakarma"

i have seen this thread going back and forth non stop, im not getting into this diyce fight exactly, but i would like to add something for danielrayment to think about...

simple macro...

/run TargetNearestFriend()
/wait .1
/Cast Urgent Heal

______________________

now why would i do that when i can make it more direct to save myself time and avoid pets and people with full health by using an advanced macro like this one...

/run for i=1,10 do TargetNearestFriend() if UnitIsPlayer("target") then break else TargetUnit("") end end
/run if (UnitHealth("target")/UnitMaxHealth("target")<=.97) then CastSpellByName("Urgent Heal") else TargetUnit("") end

___________________________

that macro saves me a ton of time trying to click a moving teammate or friendly target tabbing through them all...

you can play with basic macros yourself but some people like myself and many others like actually working with the code to make playing slightly easier, however i dont use DPS macros but thats cause im a mage/priest, my skills for boss fights are limited and pvp i use fireball/rising tide/lightning/thunderstorm at range and discharge/purgatory fire when im close to you

if i wanted to could easily make 2 macros 1 for range and 1 for close combat, and just spam that button non stop while hitting tab to swap targets

_________________________________

For Ranged:

/cast Fireball
/cast Rising Tide
/cast Lightning

For Melee range:

/cast Discharge
/cast Purgatory Fire

For Anti-Rogue:

obviously i would just use thunderstorm randomly

________________________________________________

other classes do have complex combos that need to be done in order to hit hard and survive, whether they made a macro to do it or use diyce, the end result is still the same, its about convenience.

the point is the basic macro version ISNT AS GOOD as the advanced macro version and I doubt you ll even use it as it doesn't offer much more then regaulr key pressing. THe advanced macro version offers more.

The same hold true for using basic macro rogue rotations aka

/cast Blind Spot (Shadowstab for rogues who use it instead ickkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk)
/wait x second
/cast Low Blow
/wait x;
/cast Wound Attack;

can this be used .... wel sure people can try to use it but it isn't anywhere near as effective as doing it yourself because a) finding the ideal wait time to make it work b) the boss can move out of range as the macro is being applied making the macro useless c) ya have to be behind the boss to use blind spot DIYCE has code for "if behind target" basic macros don't have d) this code wont check your rogue energy so its possible that using it will fail in the middle of the battle as ya pretty much need to have 100% energy to be sure this would work. There is also no way of applying "THE BEST AVIABLE HIT" is it simply a sequence of programming where the true decision process has been done by you the user and there no way for the computer to do anything other then the straight line sequence of code.

POINT IS: basic macros don't apply decision logic and pretty much wont offer anything better than pressing the buttons yourself. IF ya want to use this type of macro ^ I say go for it give it a try as it will fail as much as it will succeed and youll pretty much delete the code not long after getting annoyed with it. Advanced macro programming goes far beyond that having the computer make decisions for your based on if logic conditional branches.



As for the previous post about automatic transmissions getting whooped vs manual trasnmissisons that is exactly the point even if it reverse logic. Racing has standards that all cars must abide by to keep the race fair obviously nobody will use automatic transmissions as manual transmissions are better. I was simply making the point that when ya take the driving scenario to the racetrack ..... standards of fairness of play and rules of conduct come along with it. Wheels are all regulartory sized, bodies and engines gasoline etc etc etc do have standards that must be applied to keep the race FAIR.

Quoted from "danielrayment"

As for the previous post about automatic transmissions getting whooped vs manual trasnmissisons that is exactly the point even if it reverse logic. Racing has standards that all cars must abide by to keep the race fair obviously nobody will use automatic transmissions as manual transmissions are better. I was simply making the point that when ya take the driving scenario to the racetrack ..... standards of fairness of play and rules of conduct come along with it. Wheels are all regulartory sized, bodies and engines gasoline etc etc etc do have standards that must be applied to keep the race FAIR.

Your right we should all be rogues, have the same rotation, same tp, same gear so that ROM is fair. Damn why didn't I think of that.. .oh ya Cause you be crazy sir.

I thought this was a thread about whether or not Diyce is botting, not about cars and basic/advanced macros, and aslo not about whether computers can do things better than humans....

Do-it-yourself-combat engine is only as effective as the person who codes the attack rotation and/or setup conditions. One can do EVERYTHING diyce does in "normal" macros, so banning diyce really won't change much. I knew a wd/s who used what someone earlier referred to as charged chop "weaving" without even using diyce, and you can use other macros for doing things like targetting players or deciding which of blind spot/lowblow/woundattack to use.

And since we're talking about it, Diyce and things like GCI are extremely similar imo. GCI and Healbot all allow you to cast skills while bypassing normal human actions (diyce makes it so you don't need to manually check buffs/debuffs, GCI makes it so you don't need to target/position aoe). Most of the same arguements for/against diyce can be made for/against GCI and other healing addons, yet I don't think many people will be too impressed should those stop functioning.

Quoted from "Cike"

we have pretty much determined it is not botting...the discussion is whether it gives people and unfair advantage etc...

i really don't know why we are still having this discussion tbh...

Because we have 2 people that won't let it die. I thought it was killed a while back with a very logical post but alas we tread onward.

______________________

now why would i do that when i can make it more direct to save myself time and avoid pets and people with full health by using an advanced macro like this one...

/run for i=1,10 do TargetNearestFriend() if UnitIsPlayer("target") then break else TargetUnit("") end end
/run if (UnitHealth("target")/UnitMaxHealth("target")<=.97) then CastSpellByName("Urgent Heal") else TargetUnit("") end

___________________________

that macro saves me a ton of time trying to click a moving teammate or friendly target tabbing through them all...



Karmakarma if this works the way you have posted gonna put into a macro and use it on my p/r cause i can not target friendlies as fast as that toon can cast heal ( not urgent heal ) yea just regular heal.

My code skills are for crap, has been many years since C++ coding days.....last time I worked with code was as Java script was just entering the market

yes it works, i use it on my p/k in siege so i dont have to worry about using my heal addon or manually target friendly players that need a heal

/off topic

What difference does it make if someone creates or cuts and pastes a line of cod for diyce that allows you to bot or avoid gdc or take advantage of a glitch.
It is all the same a hack or a cheat, the argument that someone should be allowed to use a cheat because they created it instead of just cut and pasted it is just absurd. You are saying that because I can create a cheat I should be able to use it while someone who did not can't.
It doesn't matter you are all the same. Coding ability doesn't make you a non-cheater just one who works harder at it.
Then comes the other argument it is not a cheat anyone can use it. The same argument can be made for steroids in sports. Why should everyone have to use it to compete on an even playing field with those who do?

i m refering to the 2-3 persons in this thread that keep humiliating themselves due to their ignorance. just quit the thread for ur own sake. ppl laugh at u with your stupidity lvl.

if u want to "fight" that "demonic" thing called diyce, then GET FAMILIAR WITH IT before u start saying bsht

u r accusing ppl for using diyce, yet u have absolutely no idea how diyce works and what it does.