Runes of Magic US / AU

I agree completely.

not only the ability to 'drop' points but earn points as well, you will notice that bteam has gone against 'baconteam' and bacon is ranked first place after a streak of 30 some wins, noloses noties... no word yet from the GMs

my guild certainly would love a break from the gamble that siege is, but we currently don't find it worth the potential ban

LOL, Bteam.....have you seen their points lately? Maybe they are tired of others dropping points to avoid them. If that even works, since my 500 point guild just got matched with them the other night. Fun seige, they don't even bother with Herald, just ran straight to the gate and beat it down.

But, on topic, what mechanism would you suggest? If you could not drop points in your guild would they all go back to switching to low level alt guilds?

Personally, I fail to see what enjoyment they derive out of being matched with, shall we say, not as capable guilds...

The best seiges are still the evenly matched ones.

I actually find it hilarious how blatantly Bteam is doing it. I mean, they're not even trying to hide it xD

Well some people just love to exploit and cheat the game, winning by cheating seems to be the trend of this generation!!!! very sad

So the guild who can't beat the 2 highest guilds but can beat anything else is stuck in the middle and confused with nowhere to go and no identity to cling on to.

That sucks and all but point dropping doesn't really work out as well as you think, esp when the guilds you are sorta mentioning are going through periods where almost no one is on for these sieges.

How is a guild that has better gear than you (@ zid really), that farmed it through hard work, dying dozens of times, exploiting when they kill you in siege? Oh that's right you are one of those people who instantly calls hacks, cheats, exploits when you die to something you can't explain. It's true as I've fought your guild many times, also how do you think those sub 1k guilds feel when a guild that used to be around 2k points gets matched up with yours at -1k now?

Sounds to me like a whole bunch of hypocrisy going on.

Fail thread.

The thread is about point dropping, which seems to be a very valid discussion to me, and not a fail thread. While it might not be literally cheating, in my opinion it's extremely low class.

why hide what? Nothing going on that isnt allowed. Theres ur view from your side of the fence.... Heres mine.

This same situation happened to ppk if i recall correctly... if not my bad.

When you get 250-300k points in siege.... like both did, NOBODY shows up to fight you in siege... not even to hold gates, and waste time... they... just... dont... show...

And when you do siege every night for months and months... and its a 5-7 min siege.... people stop logging in.... people stop playing because they are bored...people stop sieging alltogether... people leave guild to fight in lower point guilds so they can actually have fun...

Because thats what the game is about right? fun?

After a while of ppk having hundreds of sieges being a 5-10 min siege.. they lost a lot of people due to all various issues... Then Bteam, who got stronger, started winning against them, and people really hate to lose when their points are that high... so you get rid of a lot of your points so that way... it doesnt matter if you win or lose anymore... no more rage etc...

Same thing happened to Bteam, after a while of winning so many sieges... we ended up gettin our butt finally spanked by ppk again, and we all pretty much knew same thing was gonna happen to us, because bteam is lacking a lot of players now due to same issues ppk had.

So did same thing, got rid of points to hopefully begin having fun sieges again, Bteam is not same guild who won 300k points anymore, just like every other endgame guild out there, they go up and down in strength, due to whos active... and whos not...

ppk i think merged with a few guilds or atleast recruited a lot more active people to fill inactive ranks.

Were all hoping that we get fun sieges again, and might bring some inactive players back, but who knows, never know in rom, some just never come back lol.

I can say for sure one thing.. ive been in so many endgame guilds that i can positively say, there is never one guild that stays on top forever.

I know it can be frustrating for smaller guilds who (unlucky) get matched up with higher point guilds, but do you under stand where we are coming from too? We hate bad sieges just as much as next guy.

Idk i feel like i rambled like i normally do, but im not trying to ruffle feathers here, just hoping to help some out there understand a view from other side of fence.

Cerb is pretty much right.

5-7 minute sieges get boring. People leave because of that. After awhile, you are no longer that "300k point guild" anymore. You basically turn into a new guild and this is the only way to "start over".

I remember always hearing about great sieges from guilds in the 2k - 3k rank but they never got higher. They probably only have their core people on certain sieges, and other days do not have them, so they cannot climb the ranks. Eventually, that's what the high point guilds turn into and start trying to normalizing themselves.

No, I don't think it's an exploit.

Honestly, I had quit rom for a about 3-4 months, and during that time, PPK got their asses handed to them by bteam. I got texts saying we need some people back so we can try against them again. It was too late by then, our core people had left already because of the siege war issue at-hand (5 minute sieges etc) and I basically came back to a brand new guild. I heard that we were point dropping hardcore and it made me really upset to see all my hard work go down the drain. It took time to calm down because some of those points were from hard battles. It wasn't until later I realized that those points weren't obtained by the current population of PPK, it was from past players.

Sometimes you have to start over this way, or you may lose your guildies, and all hope of the guild could be lost.

simply put, the endgame peeps need more endgame guilds to fight...that way every SW with an endgame guild isn't a <10 min fight...

I always have fun seiging PPK or Bteam< coming from Aurora on Palenque> and we dont always have our core people on but hell we sure do try. We're uncoordinated but have some strong people. If we were coordinated we could probably beat PPK (no offense) We always have good seiges with Knightshift too, always down to the wire. But again sometimes people dont log in show up so we lsoe a lot too.

However I'm not saying this is the case for ALL guilds. there are known guilds ( no names) that intentionally point drop for badges in the mid ranks, but other dont do it intentionally.

But eversince we tied ppk twice now they take us more serious and we got romped by them. Guildies have even thoguht not to show up anymore because we get beat that bad. But we still try and have fun even if we lose.

Quoted from "Cike"

simply put, the endgame peeps need more endgame guilds to fight...that way every SW with an endgame guild isn't a <10 min fight...

I think this applies to most point ranges nowadays. My guild sieges at around 800-1500 points, and only about 1 in 10 sieges is actually evenly matched, because there's so few guilds at each point range. The difference in guild strength of even 300 or 400 points is HUGE at this point range. For us, at the lower end, we get a couple PvE geared 70k-80k HP's, and at the upper end, 300k+ HP's in full honor gear and pocket healers.

If you happened to get a few easy matches (not uncommon with so few guilds at your own strength), you go up 300 or 400 points, then get destroyed. If you get a couple hard matches in a row (also not uncommon), you go down 300 points or so and your opponents have absolutely no chance (and will probably also accuse you of point dropping - not saying it doesn't exist, but a lot of it comes from this as well). To add to that, most guilds at this point range don't seem to have a "regular" amount of people that show up, and their numbers can vary drastically from day to day. I know my guild sometimes only has 5 people in siege - and others as high as nearly 30, and this seems to be the case with most guilds we fight.

As I said here, on the .eu side it works pretty well, imho.

Basically it seems that everyone drops points and chooses a "bracket". You know what to expect in every bracket. You never want to stay too high ofc, but it's also not fun to drop point too low (either you run over the opponents and there is little fun/tactics or they cheat much more than in the higher brackets). Once basically everyone accepted the system it is somehow self-regulating: we actually don't drop the points until we get royally spanked 4 out of 5 times, then we keep dropping a bit, and then again let it grow. The thing is that if it's evenly matched you sometimes loose sometimes win and the points don't grow too fast!

Ruisen said:

Quoted

only about 1 in 10 sieges is actually evenly matched

while ... my experience is exactly the opposite! With the current system you guys should have spread it out over a larger range to avoid over-crowded (and therefore random in guild-strength) 800-1500 range, I guess.

On the formal side: imagine a sport competition where loosing a particular match would mean that team X will get to a weaker group for the next round and this way get a better chance for an overall good total result. Do you think this watching this particular match would be fun? Ofc they will not try to win (and that's why no one designs competitions in this way: your overall result should always be better if you win). But anyway - if that's the way the system works, it's only natural to loose from time to time too keep yourself in a reasonable-opponents range. Not fun to watch a match like this, but also not cheating imho...

It's what FarmerTom says: once the points are too high and you literally loose 9 SWs out of 10, it is irritating and ppl simply stop logging in. And if they don't log in for SW it's hard to get a pt for an instance too. You may argue as much as you will, but it's a simple fact of life: that's what happens.

The thing is, if dropping points is not possible, what do you suggest instead to assure even matching?

Quoted from "Auros"

what mechanism would you suggest?

You cannot match based on who is online 1h before the SW because many ppl log in just for the SW. It would have to be something taking into account a number of factors:
* how many ppl were there in total in SWs during the last, say, 15 days?
* how many SWs were played at all by this guild during these 15 days (to grade less active guilds separately)?
* what was their total dmg done?
* what was total dmg of top 7 ppl (to exclude gathering alts and balloon hunters)?
* maybe some sort of balanced statistics of these top 7 ppl (total def, HP, matt/patt, mdmg/pdmg, dodge at the beginning of SW or even better: the max they got ever during a particular SW)? - I love this one
* how many of these last 15 days were lost before the end of time, lost after 1 h, even, won after 1 h, won before the end of time?

Imho, out of these the most important would have to be the stats of the top 7 ppl (calculated NOT as a factor comparing with the other guild, but as an absolute value => you want to rank guilds in order, a weak guild with even weaker opponents should not be on the top of the charts, so the number of SWs [in total, lost, won etc.] could only be a refining factor).

What I like about this is that if top-7 ppl stats were used, and instead of a snapshot at the beginning or at the end of the SW, the stats would be traced and their max would be used, then ... pet-cheaters would get nicely filtered out into a top-of-the-tops bracket, lol. Let them fight each other.

What I don't like about this is that I don't trust that RW will do such grading/balancing right, in a self-regulating way and leading to reasonable ordering. The current system works fine (imho), you simply pick your bracket by dropping points (by loosing SWs). If you leave it to the system - it does not really work (see ruisen's post). And it seems to me that bleedingblak and FarmerTom tend to agree.

If you don't want point dropping: suggest a better mechanism, please!

PS: And yes, I understand that if others drop points then you have a disadvantage if you choose not to do the extra work of point dropping too. Basically it's a one-way street, once some guilds start doing this, everyone has to join. Yep, it is extra work, but why don't you try? It seems to me that it worked out pretty reasonably on the .eu side (imho). [Although, yeah, it might explode badly if in the future there were e.g. new siege titles introduced and winning the badges was more important than fun in SW - it is not so at the moment, things tend to balance out nicely imho]

The basic design of siege is for guilds to be 50/50 on the losing and winning. The very top and the very bottom would be different. You improve those odds by strengthening your characters and adding players, though unless you can strengthen and add to be the best, eventually that leads to a niche where you would be 50/50. Point dropping is designed to change those odds, because apparently 50/50 isn't enough for some guilds/people. And by doing so, you end up negatively affecting other guilds which follow the design of siege and can bring their odds down to less than 50/50.

It's pretty simple really. There are people who won't do things which are against the design, especially if it negatively affects other people. And there are people who will do anything that they feel is good for themselves, regardless of the fact that it negatively affects other people. Lebensraum.

Apparently, there are too many of the latter in this game. People can justify a lot in life. Take a gander at the history of the world.

Quoted from "WhiteFlour"

So the guild who can't beat the 2 highest guilds but can beat anything else is stuck in the middle and confused with nowhere to go and no identity to cling on to.

That sucks and all but point dropping doesn't really work out as well as you think, esp when the guilds you are sorta mentioning are going through periods where almost no one is on for these sieges.

How is a guild that has better gear than you (@ zid really), that farmed it through hard work, dying dozens of times, exploiting when they kill you in siege? Oh that's right you are one of those people who instantly calls hacks, cheats, exploits when you die to something you can't explain. It's true as I've fought your guild many times, also how do you think those sub 1k guilds feel when a guild that used to be around 2k points gets matched up with yours at -1k now?

Sounds to me like a whole bunch of hypocrisy going on.

Fail thread.

mmh first off, who are you? toon name? guild?? we all know what people do with siege. As other said, they are point dropping for badges which is sad. Has my statement hit a nerve with you? well i know why now. I do not siege everynight, children and life in general, some guildies want to tho and our ranking varies a lot. But when you have guilds that show up with 25+ people everynight at 1K points, all fully T8+ gear and T12 T13 weapons, yes they are point droppers in my opinion.

We have a lot of lowbies in guild and are learning and building up their toons, we have people that are geared but mainly about 10 to 12 and they do not do siege everynight.

I've seen people go through the walls, gates, lag switching, etc, we all know what they do, stop being an ostrich and putting your head in the sand. Some people are sore losers and will cheat to win, been here long enough and saw more than my share.

I've had my last siege war title a long time ago and siege is not necessary for me anymore, with all the shenanigans people do, it gets frustrating and stressful for no reason.

If my comments offends you so much, don't read them, it is my opinion and i have a right to it, have a nice day.

I *personally* hope that with the server merge coming, as long as people keep playing, new/stronger guilds will emerge to create even out the battlefield in siege. That's just what I hope for though. Zzz

In my old guild; We beat Bteam once while they got split sieges with PPK, and it was a horrible idea. We were instantly up to 16k points and constantly got paired with PPK and Bteam and siege was a complete nightmare pretty much. I would love it if there was a better way to pair guilds up more evenly, but there isn't, or its just too complicated for RW/GF to risk implementing into the game. That being said, some guild would still not be matched evenly, for example; you could have #1 and #2 guilds sieging each other, but there could be a massive gear/skill difference between them, hence making it once again an unfair fight.

Fair fights are rare to come by now-a-days, especially with the gear/player differentials throughout the game's guilds. Its pretty ridiculous, which is why I'm so excited for the server merge, so that guilds have new diversities of players.

Also if people would play in smaller guilds and make siege fun. We fought PPK and it was fun, did we think we could win, hell no, but we still have fun. I always said, don't make huge guilds with 50+ players fully geared T9 and T12 weapons to go to siege, there was just not enough of those guilds around. Better have a bunch of smaller guilds and make siege fun and challenging. GM's should have the ability to target point droppers and just disband those guilds, especially when they are so blatant about it.

But some people just get their kicks in bullying the smaller undergeared guilds, calling them names in siege etc. Make siege fun and challenging, make smaller guilds, more guilds for siege = more fun. If server merge happens, let's make one big guild and never siege lol ;-), kidding aside, i hope that no guilds will merge into others if the merge happens. Keep your identities and values of your guilds, play with the people you are used too.

What if guilds merge with each other, who will decide who goes to siege?? 36 max players can go to siege. Just imagine the drama and the QQ when you have to choose? that would be bad for any guild. Just food for tought here ;-)

Who is the top guild suppose to fight? The same guild every night? If PPK always beats B-Team and B-Team always beats VVV and VVV always beats everyone else and you have 30 guilds signed up for siege, how do you match them up? The match-up system is fine. Sometimes you are the roller and sometimes you are the rollie. What they should change is the reward system. If you are in the top guild and you get matched with, lets say the #10 guild. If you cannot take their crystal, you loose. Only a small number of points though, it was a handicap match.

Quoted from "zidlef"

Quoted from "WhiteFlour"

So the guild who can't beat the 2 highest guilds but can beat anything else is stuck in the middle and confused with nowhere to go and no identity to cling on to.

That sucks and all but point dropping doesn't really work out as well as you think, esp when the guilds you are sorta mentioning are going through periods where almost no one is on for these sieges.

How is a guild that has better gear than you (@ zid really), that farmed it through hard work, dying dozens of times, exploiting when they kill you in siege? Oh that's right you are one of those people who instantly calls hacks, cheats, exploits when you die to something you can't explain. It's true as I've fought your guild many times, also how do you think those sub 1k guilds feel when a guild that used to be around 2k points gets matched up with yours at -1k now?

Sounds to me like a whole bunch of hypocrisy going on.

Fail thread.

mmh first off, who are you? toon name? guild?? we all know what people do with siege. As other said, they are point dropping for badges which is sad. Has my statement hit a nerve with you? well i know why now. I do not siege everynight, children and life in general, some guildies want to tho and our ranking varies a lot. But when you have guilds that show up with 25+ people everynight at 1K points, all fully T8+ gear and T12 T13 weapons, yes they are point droppers in my opinion.

We have a lot of lowbies in guild and are learning and building up their toons, we have people that are geared but mainly about 10 to 12 and they do not do siege everynight.

I've seen people go through the walls, gates, lag switching, etc, we all know what they do, stop being an ostrich and putting your head in the sand. Some people are sore losers and will cheat to win, been here long enough and saw more than my share.

I've had my last siege war title a long time ago and siege is not necessary for me anymore, with all the shenanigans people do, it gets frustrating and stressful for no reason.

If my comments offends you so much, don't read them, it is my opinion and i have a right to it, have a nice day.

Just as you are so curious I am also curious to what guild has 25people and all have t8 armor and t12-13 gear. This is why I dislike your posts in general, they are so inaccurate it's insane.

Everything you said transcends to what applies to a higher point guild when they go through a low point in log ins per day, as it is common with your casual/family guild it is also common in an "end game" guild to have similar situations happen to their players, which would naturally force their points to be dropped. So in essence it's the same thing.

I am not offended by your thoughts (not toughts) at all, it's the way you go about blindly on these forums trying to drown everyone with illogical and inaccurate statements about situations you don't know so you've accepted them to be either hacks, exploits or something that needs to be removed from the game.

It's basically saying anyone who has had a higher point than they have currently in their guild and is not striving every night to get more points are essentially point dropping.