Siege war - Restrictions Silly/Lazy? - Runes of Magic Gameplay Discussions

Mamn00n

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Monday, March 16th 2015, 10:16am

Siege war - Restrictions Silly/Lazy?

Okay, so clearly some of you know this started in siege war times, and it got a bit of hype so I decided to make a separate thread.

Let's talk about siege war restrictions and idea's such as being a mercenary an option, and others that may follow.

Here's what me, myself, and Irene think;
1. Remove guild leave and join timers.
~ Why? I ask the same towards the purpose of it being. Seems quite pointless, and was only a problem after siege war was introduced.

2. Allow people to siege as many times a day as is available.
~ Why? I know many people who only came on, still come on, simply for siege war. Why, if that's what they enjoy in the game, restrict them from doing it more often? I like to do instances, yet I have little to no restrictions on doing so from the game.

~ How? Add another option next to "Invite to guild" and name it, "Invite Mercenary". When a player is invited through the mercenary option, the guild's siege war points would look like (for example)

GuildA 1000 (+100)

~ Measuring Mercenary "points". How would one do such a thing? This i'm unsure of, but here are my thoughts.

1. Each level is worth x amount of points. (excluding secondary, third etc.)
Reasoning; a level 90 mercenary is much more valuable than a level 30

2. Each piece of PvP gear is worth x amount of points.
Reasoning; PvP gear is clearly much more viable for PvP than regular gear, and would be used by mercenaries in lieu of PvE gear.

3. Each time a mercenary wins a siege war, they gain +1 point, and a lose is -1.
Reasoning; as a mercenary wins more sieges, his renown should increase, making his sieges more difficult, or a more valuable target. As well, as the mercenary loses more sieges, her renown would decrease.

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FarmerTom

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Monday, March 16th 2015, 1:41pm

the whole reason the guild leave and join changes were implemented was people qqing and whining about mercs on forums....

i for one never cared about mercs... let a guild beef up to a level they dont belong in and get wiped back to reality after, lmao.

But im afraid too many people hate mercs friend, and this will only fall on deaf ears.

But cheers for effort and i hope im wrong, i cant stand the timers either.

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Zerienga

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Monday, March 16th 2015, 1:44pm

I would not want mercenaries to work like this. As I stated in the sw times thread, this would completely unbalance siege wars. Just as we have an issue with people rank dropping currently, we would instead have merc point dropping as well. Also, the guild in question would just use the invite player option for an easier win.

I would rather have the registration button have a "merc join" option where it pooled together all the mercs across the servers and divide them in half at random (kind of like how the arenas work). The merc guilds would then have to talk with each other and figure out a strategy that would work for them. It would be much more interesting this way than having guilds able to invite mercs. Also, you should not be able to merc sign up for sw if your guild is signed up. The way this would work is that the guild has to be not signed up for sw in order to use the merc join feature. To prevent people from going around that restriction, when a guild registers (not declares war), all current mercs in the guild would be automatically deregistered.

In the case of less than 20 mercs signing up, all mercs would form one merc guild and siege against a random opponent with 900 or more points. In this case, the guild facing the merc guild would receive the same rewards options as the merc guild, which are listed below.

The rewards in the merc sw would be 20 badges of trial, 5000 honor points, 10 Teardrop Rubies (I believe this is the 100 guild rubies item) and 3 strange radiances for a win or tie. If you lose, you would receive 10 badges of trial, 2500 honor points, 5 Teardrop Rubies (I believe this is the 100 guild rubies item) and 1 strange radiance. The reasoning for the higher rewards is simply for the fact that you would be playing with random people across the servers.

To prevent people from abusing this system for greater rewards, you can only merc sign up twice in one day (days resetting same time as guild sign up).

As for the merc guild castles, they would have rank v buildings with upgraded walls available to deployed during the preparation stage of sw. Only a level 90 can place the buildings, and other level 90 players can move them.

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This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Zerienga" (Nov 19th 2015, 3:24pm) with the following reason: Just edited to match some of the edits I made to it when posting it on EN forums a while back.

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Mamn00n

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Monday, March 16th 2015, 2:51pm

Certainly I agree with some points, however I am quite defensive against anything to pertain to restrictions.
Replies in bold, and underlined.

Quoted from "Zerienga"

I would rather have the registration button have a "merc join" option where it pooled together all the mercs across the servers and divide them in half at random (kind of like how the arenas work). The merc guilds would then have to talk with each other and figure out a strategy that would work for them. It would be much more interesting this way than having guilds able to invite mercs. Also, you should not be able to merc sign up for sw if your guild is signed up. The way this would work is that the guild has to be not signed up for sw in order to use the merc join feature. To prevent people from going around that restriction, when a guild registers (not declares war), all current mercs in the guild would be automatically deregistered.
To prevent people from abusing this system for greater rewards, you can
only merc sign up twice in one day (days resetting same time as guild
sign up).
While I can certainly see the first part happening, and it would still be a good system. I don't see the need for restrictions on siege war times. Again, if somebody wants to spend more time doing siege warfare, then why not let them? The only benefits gained from siege war are; Honor points, Guild Resources, Experience orbs, Talent orbs (both of the minimal versions), and Badges for titles.

If one could do siege 4 times a day, it would be much more conceivable for people to reach better titles, gain some gear faster, and hence spend more money faster. Likewise it would be beneficial for everyone, but only those who put the time into siege in regard to instances or other PvE aspects. Making PvP much easier to access for those who want it, and more convenient for those who can't make siege war on time, as well as guilds who have more than 50 active players. (Thinking of the future here with server merges)

In the case of less than 20 mercs signing up, all mercs would form one merc guild and siege against a random opponent with 900 or more points. In this case, the guild facing the merc guild would receive the same rewards options as the merc guild, which are listed below.
I absolutely think there needs to be a scoring system per player, and not just a set amount per group of players, as certainly this could be abused otherwise.

As for the merc guild castles, they would have rank v buildings with upgraded walls available
I like the idea of separate guild castles for merc's as well. This could be interesting to set an even playing field for merc's.

Good idea's still, I may yet be wrong about restrictions being necessary but as of current, I see little to no purpose for restrictions when they can be properly thought of and implemented to make abuse impossible.

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Zerienga

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Monday, March 16th 2015, 3:07pm

The point of the restrictions I put in place were because I feel that you should siege with your guild over just mercing for better rewards. The reason I didn't like the scoring system would simply be for the fact that people would abuse them like they currently do guild points. Also, that would cause the lower level people to be stuck in lower sieges just because they are a low level. It seems akin to punishment for not having hit level cap yet, even though they can contribute to the siege other than just farming back towers. Also, your point about honor gear increasing the points wouldn't work because people may be holding onto some honor gear for the stat they pulled on it, waiting to pull it off. Also, not everyone uses honor gear all the time in sw, thus making it hard to measure. Also, with the point of 50 people guilds... I personally think people are stupid if they join a 50 player guild. That would be entirely unbalanced in both sw and pve, leading to arguments which could easily destroy said guilds. The restriction of 2 merc sieges a day would be because not everyone is on the whole day to siege at every single siege option, and 2 felt like the right number to balance between pvp and pve, also allowing it to fit into people's schedules more.

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Auros

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Monday, March 16th 2015, 3:42pm

Are there not already many ways to do this within current restrictions? A guild can seige in every time slot if it wants to, you just only get the rewards in one slot. A person can seige many times per day, just on different toons. If you only play this game for seige, you still have many options...Look around, people are already doing what you are talking about, within the current rules and restrictions.

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zidlef

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Monday, March 16th 2015, 6:31pm

Restrictions were put to prevent exploiting siege, pretty simple. Then again a lot want to get IBW, well i got that on 7 of my level 55 to 60 alts already. Wanna show your skills, if we can call it like that, make a siege where you can just show off, ah yes true it's called declaration of war and already implemented in the game.

Mercs serves no purpose for any guilds since they don't give 2 cents about the guild joined for one siege. All they want to do is go in siege and wreck undergeared and inexperienced players, it's called bullying. You can siege 4 times a day now, if you can't find a time period to do so, not anyones fault. I had to deal with going to siege at 10PM, it sucks but it won't change that is how it is programmed.

Put up any chart you want and any statistics or scoring you want for mercing etc, why don't you try to run with your own guildies and have fun.

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Mamn00n

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Monday, March 16th 2015, 7:11pm

My hopes of this being implemented are just as high as scouts being viable.

Don't take it to heart, it's simply meandering a subject.

As far as I see it, RESPONSIBLY opening the ability to merc leaves this;

Pros: More siege war for those who want it
More Honor points, and hence materials and gear are more readily available.
You don't have to sit guildless for a day because of a silly restriction to try and stop it
The ability to be in a guild full of people you like, and not be slummed to the in-ability to do siege war at the same time the majority can

Cons: ? Fill this one in for me, be reasonable, for I cannot see any.

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Cike

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Monday, March 16th 2015, 7:54pm

if you oppose the idea of mercing, then you can't possibly dream of PuGing instances.

mercing == PuGing for pvp.....

do i really need to explain the parallels in great detail?

they are the same darn thing...

my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

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Rougetopriest

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Monday, March 16th 2015, 8:37pm

Agreed Cike, and I'm ok with both as I love PvP

(As long as extra points were added to the guild with a merc, as the OP explained)

As for the current system allowing you to do multiple sieges a day, I've tried that, and either no one agrees to sign up against us, or people accept the declaration just to no show and drop points. So that's a near useless feature.

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vfwiffo

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Monday, March 16th 2015, 10:24pm

Who would like to explain to Cike the main difference between mercing and PUGs?

-- Rustyx --- 92R / 92S / 92M on Reni (Guild KnightShift). Yes, running the new FOTM R/M, cause I am not elf enough to be WD/S.

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lesmceld

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Monday, March 16th 2015, 10:42pm

I'm actually more in line with Zidlef on this discussion. I also preferred the 1 siege a day thing, which maybe puts me in the minority.

And while I'm not sure which is the main difference Rusty is talking about, I agree that there is a big difference between mercs and PUGs. A guild fights under it's guild's name, while a PUG is a PUG. Siege can be fought by any number of players that are in a guild and 'theoretically'

you can fight guilds of close to the same ability. Instances which need PUGs for the most part require geared players, while siege itself does not. Many guilds exist which have 1 or 2 capable of PUGS, but cannot run the higher instances as a guild.

As for the general discussion about mercs, quite often you would have won a siege even without the mercs. So if those mercs are strong characters, you sometimes end up lessening the rewards of your own guild members. Personally, I think it's much more satisfying to win or lose siege as a guild, with players who love to be in that guild, who have struggled to bring their guild up, successfully or unsuccessfully. And since siege is designed to be 50% win/loss for most, you actually don't enhance your guild in the long run with mercs. You do so by getting more players and increasing the strength of the players in the guild.

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Zerienga

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Monday, March 16th 2015, 10:48pm

Quoted from "lesmceld"

As for the general discussion about mercs, quite often you would have won a siege even without the mercs. So if those mercs are strong characters, you sometimes end up lessening the rewards of your own guild members. Personally, I think it's much more satisfying to win or lose siege as a guild, with players who love to be in that guild, who have struggled to bring their guild up, successfully or unsuccessfully. And since siege is designed to be 50% win/loss for most, you actually don't enhance your guild in the long run with mercs. You do so by getting more players and increasing the strength of the players in the guild.

Which is exactly why I figured a merc guild would be better, as you can read in post 3.

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Cike

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Monday, March 16th 2015, 11:47pm

PuG:
1) get people together, who may or may not be in the same guild(more likely than not, there are at least 2-3 in the same guild).
2) do a group event(pve in this case)
3) get rewards

mercing:
1) get people together, who may or may not be in the same guild (number of outsiders depends on number of mercs. i have been in SW's with 75% mercs, i have been in SW's with no mercs)
2) do a group event(pvp in this case)
3) get rewards

rusty, can you get off your high horse and explain the "main difference" to us commonfolk?

my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

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Heron

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Tuesday, March 17th 2015, 12:58am

Quoted from "Cike"

rusty, can you

Better still, how's about we all simmer down before this thread boils over? Thanks.

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Sebkha

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Tuesday, March 17th 2015, 1:02am

The limits on siege are the result of real-world testing on real players doing what they tend to do on real servers. Messing up siege for everyone else so that some OP folks have a captive audience to bully isn't going to do anything good for player population.

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MODRUNE01

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Tuesday, March 17th 2015, 1:06am

Its funny how the same topics come up time and time again in very small variations. This time around, the *cough* perpetual beta s/w and joining guild capability.

As suggestions for these repetitive topics are useless, I will just inform the OP someone (sorry, don't remember whom) had a good idea of also removing the guild join time restriction. However, along with that change, that character could not s/w for an entire day after they joined. Would solve the problem of not able to join guilds in a timely fashion while keeping the merc situation (which seems to be what the current guild join timer was implemented for) at bay.

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vfwiffo

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Tuesday, March 17th 2015, 1:06am

Quoted from "Cike"

rusty, can you get off your high horse and explain the "main difference" to us commonfolk?

lesmceld and some other people already did some of it; but it is not rocket surgery to figure out why an association of people of known power picking their own level of challenge to take and enjoying the outcome win or lose, is preferable to easily gamed system with system assigned challenge creating matches that have a high chance to be unsatisfying to all involved.

-- Rustyx --- 92R / 92S / 92M on Reni (Guild KnightShift). Yes, running the new FOTM R/M, cause I am not elf enough to be WD/S.

Oh, and people who have more than 3 classes are clinically insane.

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Cike

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Tuesday, March 17th 2015, 1:14am

if merc's were reflected in the ranking/points of a guild(as noony's suggestion allows for), i don't see how you could "game the system" as a merc.

if you are a high-end merc, then the guild you join gets a boost in points -> fights tougher guild.

as it is now, then yes, i can see how mercing can result in a disproportionate representation of power. yet in the context of this thread, this can be safely ignored, as they are addressed by the OP

my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

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Magío

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Tuesday, March 17th 2015, 1:47am

The whole point of this is? what? PvP freaks, like myself, to get a bigger fix?

Easy, fix Tyrefen Mountain Range and Karros Canyon and have em give meaningful rewards. These PvP minigames are hardly used and they look like they would be soo fun >.>

Unless you just want more badges per day to get Siege Titles quicker.

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Runes of Magic US / AU

Siege war - Restrictions Silly/Lazy?

Siege war - Restrictions Silly/Lazy?

Quoted from "Zerienga"

Quoted from "lesmceld"

Quoted from "Cike"

Quoted from "Cike"

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