Runes of Magic US / AU

why dont you grab warrior as a 4th class gigi and become a k/w alt XD then youll be invited alll the time XD. YOull be most invited buff alt
who knows maybe youll like it and become a k/w tank )

on a personal note i still love priest love

p/k and u mad

go k/p and buff burn party instead.

sucks. but u'll run.

Quoted from "gigilomann"

This alt crap is getting on my nerves, not jsut b/c of me but b/c it legitimally takes places of real players <.<

thats really the worst thing about the current endgame atm as compared to the past(imo). at least before everybody started bringing debuffers, u needed all ur spots full of real people playing the FotM dps to clear...or you didn't, and you could just pull somebody.

Quoted from "Cike"

Quoted from "gigilomann"

This alt crap is getting on my nerves, not jsut b/c of me but b/c it legitimally takes places of real players <.<

thats really the worst thing about the current endgame atm as compared to the past(imo). at least before everybody started bringing debuffers, u needed all ur spots full of real people playing the FotM dps to clear...or you didn't, and you could just pull somebody.

Agree 100%. There was no need to bring alts to clear Beth-Bela so I could never understand why the game dynamics were made so much harder to "need" certain alts to even clear an instance. Its all sorts of dumb... however the process cannot be reversed now at the danger of making content wayyy too easy. Idk tough call.

lower boss debuff cap and keep player buff cap the same(personally, i'd say lower it, but i think that would result in way too much QQ).


yeah, it seems moronic, but, imo, it would at least force parties to decided which buff alts they need to bring and which they can live without. personally, i like that there is a buff cap that is reachable. makes you have to prioritize buffs, and if you have problems with your important ones getting knocked off, well, theres always asbw...

either that, or make less buffs stack together.


dunno, just an idea.

Quoted from "msowby2"

Quoted from "Cike"

Quoted from "gigilomann"

This alt crap is getting on my nerves, not jsut b/c of me but b/c it legitimally takes places of real players <.<

thats really the worst thing about the current endgame atm as compared to the past(imo). at least before everybody started bringing debuffers, u needed all ur spots full of real people playing the FotM dps to clear...or you didn't, and you could just pull somebody.

Agree 100%. There was no need to bring alts to clear Beth-Bela so I could never understand why the game dynamics were made so much harder to "need" certain alts to even clear an instance. Its all sorts of dumb... however the process cannot be reversed now at the danger of making content wayyy too easy. Idk tough call.

My guess:

RW: Buffs classes. Oops, these few classes now do 50% more damage than the previous fotms.
Players: Wow boss died in 10 seconds. This hardmode is easy
RW: Raises Mdef/Pdef/AoE damage
Players: zzZZZZZ You call this 10 second fight an instance?
RW: raises AoE damage to insane amounts, raises Hp/Pdef/Mdef
Players: Wow if we don't burn this in 10 seconds we instantly get killed. I guess there's no more strat. zzzZZZ 10 second burns.
RW: /flips table

Someone has to be the <bleep> and tell it how it is. I'm sure the people that clear the more difficult instances with alts would be willing to take more people and less alts if the instances would still get cleared. What sucks though, is that sometimes (key word here SOMETIMES), the people complaining that they do not get into the more difficult runs have no business being there. Same reason why some of the stronger people refuse to pug. They either lack the gear or skill, and sometimes both, to replace an alt. Those can get fixed with time, practice, and some guidance. The worst players are the ones that are to stubborn to change for the good of the raid.

I know several P/K's in Artemis who refuse to switch to another Priest combo that is more useful to the raid. I'm sure Zencast mentioned this somewhere in the Druid vs Priest thread. Bleed also suggested in this thread to go K/P and heal/buff the raid. A real K/P that can buff and throw heals > an unneeded P/K or a Lv50 K/P alt. Don't be stubborn.

CH/P gives +20% damage dealt to up to 5 people. That buff alone is equivalent to another person.
Wl/M gives 36% dmg received on a target. If you have at least 3 Mages doing similar damage then Wl/M (alt) is contributing more damage dealt than any single mage. This is not even counting Surge of Awareness/Warp Charge.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Agree 100%. There was no need to bring alts to clear Beth-Bela so I could never understand why the game dynamics were made so much harder to "need" certain alts to even clear an instance. Its all sorts of dumb...

If I'm not mistaken, some time ago people were asking for support classes to be more useful. Well now they are. We're just in a transition period were most people are still a DPS/Tank/Healer and we're alt-ing all the support classes instead of playing them. In PPK we have one of the best support players out there. SHOUTOUT to my homie Oblivionshadow. This guy plays Ch/P, M/Wl, and Wl/M for us all in one toon. Soon when he's done gearing he'll be able to DPS on M/W.

This might not be the case for everyone and some people might be getting left out legitimately. If that's the case for you disregard my post.

Also we cleared CoE HM today with only one alt that could've been replaced by a person that wasn't online tonight. So maybe the case is not that we "need certain alts" but that we need people to play support classes.

Quoted from "Magío"

I'm sure the people that clear the more difficult instances with alts would be willing to take more people and less alts if the instances would still get cleared.

you have really nice endgamers. most people i have seen on really all the servers i play try to clear with minimal actual people, so the loot is split among a smaller #. gotta keep that monopoly going. if thats not you, then way to go, and keep on being awesome...and on a completely unrelated topic, can i run with you? :3

Edit @ your edit: i see you snuck essentially the same message into your post. ^.^


that being said, i do understand that if you don't want to switch, then you don't belong in the raid.

that being said, the problem i have is the game nearly REQUIRES certain party makups(and i'm talking not just your tank/healer/dps, i mean like "if we don't bring an x/y, we won't clear...*cough* k/w *cough*). there is no reason you should *have* to change unless there is already another player that provides whatever benefit you do in the party (for an obvious example, you run k/w and you find a party that already has a k/w).

simply put, you should be viable whatever the heck you want to play.

it's more of a class balancing issue than an issue with the current instance meta. the current instance meta simply exemplifies and exaggerates the class balancing issues.

a semi related note: the current "burn or die" strats simply make any defensive support obsolete. there is no need to have a combo that provides a defensive or healing buff, when you can just find a attack/damage class instead and burn it faster. with the current meta, they could just take all defensive skills that don't benefit tanks out of the game, and it wouldn't really change much. the most defense that a dps toon needs is candy.

bringing back forced strats("phased" bosses for example, or immune until strat is complete) and non-% damage would help some of these issues imo.

Quoted from "Cike"

you have really nice endgamers. most people i have seen on really all the servers i play try to clear with minimal actual people, so the loot is split among a smaller #. gotta keep that monopoly going. if thats not you, then way to go, and keep on being awesome.

I pug as much as I can lol. That's why I hate these events. Everyone busy farming PoMs instead of running If anything people in Artemis find me annoying for harassing them to run with me. And thanks ^_^

Quoted from "Cike"

that being said, the problem i have is the game nearly REQUIRES certain party makups(and i'm talking not just your tank/healer/dps, i mean like "if we don't bring an x/y, we won't clear...*cough* k/w *cough*).

We usually bring a K/W alt when we have a Wd/W tanking. It just makes it way easier. But there has been times when I forget to switch my alt from K/M to K/W after I sieged on him and I take him as a K/M. Of course Authoritative Deterrence never goes off and we still kill the boss in a longer fight. So it's not always needed but the chance of success almost doubles.

Quoted from "Cike"

simply put, you should be viable whatever the heck you want to play.

it's more of a class balancing issue than an issue with the current instance meta. the current instance meta simply exemplifies the class balancing issues.

That's just the game's fault and the people who refuse to switch from the not-so-viable classes. I usually see it attached to pride. e.g. "I'm one of the few P/W's". Sometimes if feels like these people are more proud, of their rare class combo, than the FotMers are of their Epeen lol.

Quoted from "Magío"

That's just the game's fault.

exactly.

hence why a large part of these forums are class balance. nearly every place you look, there is at least some mention of class balance.

everybody just wants to be viable. i know for sure i want s/d to be viable(lol).

Quoted from "gigilomann"

I think they were intended to be stronger to PLAY but not to use the buff/debuff as an alt. Just think if these "alts" could also do dps?

Real, good players > alts anyday. Only "drawback" is you have to share loot. But I don't think most people are like that. I was surprised when Cike mentioned something about it.

Quoted from "Magío"

Someone has to be the and tell it how it is. I'm sure the people that clear the more difficult instances with alts would be willing to take more people and less alts if the instances would still get cleared. What sucks though, is that sometimes (key word here SOMETIMES), the people complaining that they do not get into the more difficult runs have no business being there. Same reason why some of the stronger people refuse to pug. They either lack the gear or skill, and sometimes both, to replace an alt. Those can get fixed with time, practice, and some guidance. The worst players are the ones that are to stubborn to change for the good of the raid.

I know several P/K's in Artemis who refuse to switch to another Priest combo that is more useful to the raid. I'm sure Zencast mentioned this somewhere in the Druid vs Priest thread. Bleed also suggested in this thread to go K/P and heal/buff the raid. A real K/P that can buff and throw heals > an unneeded P/K or a Lv50 K/P alt. Don't be stubborn.

CH/P gives +20% damage dealt to up to 5 people. That buff alone is equivalent to another person.
Wl/M gives 36% dmg received on a target. If you have at least 3 Mages doing similar damage then Wl/M (alt) is contributing more damage dealt than any single mage. This is not even counting Surge of Awareness/Warp Charge.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Agree 100%. There was no need to bring alts to clear Beth-Bela so I could never understand why the game dynamics were made so much harder to "need" certain alts to even clear an instance. Its all sorts of dumb...

If I'm not mistaken, some time ago people were asking for support classes to be more useful. Well now they are. We're just in a transition period were most people are still a DPS/Tank/Healer and we're alt-ing all the support classes instead of playing them. In PPK we have one of the best support players out there. SHOUTOUT to my homie Oblivionshadow. This guy plays Ch/P, M/Wl, and Wl/M for us all in one toon. Soon when he's done gearing he'll be able to DPS on M/W.

This might not be the case for everyone and some people might be getting left out legitimately. If that's the case for you disregard my post.

Also we cleared CoE HM today with only one alt that could've been replaced by a person that wasn't online tonight. So maybe the case is not that we "need certain alts" but that we need people to play support classes.</bleep>

Where did this quote of me come from, i never posted that o_O

here is where you "said" it.

just some fail quoting on magio's part. real author is msowby2 .

Quoted from "gigilomann"

but I can still heal endgame, gaurentee it, just probably not solo

And that's the thing. A druid can.

Not only that, but compared to a P/K (using you as an example) druid class combos are SO much more useless to the raid as a whole. Even Priest/X combo alts arent really brought INTO the instance anymore. You park them outside and throw yourself a quick buff before you enter the instance or swap them back out after buffing for a raid buff/debuff alt

And not only that, since they can heal solo instead of bringing 2+ priests, it leaves more room open for more...useful...classes or alts.


This is no stab at you as a priest main. I'm sure, as far as priest mains go, you do very well.

I'll end this post with something from Bob Dylan, who once said: The times, they are a changin'

Quoted from "acypcar90"

Quoted from "gigilomann"

but I can still heal endgame, gaurentee it, just probably not solo

And that's the thing. A druid can.

Not only that, but their class combos are SO much more useless to the raid as a whole. Even Priest/X combo alts arent really brought INTO the instance anymore. You park them outside and throw yourself a quick buff before you enter the instance or swap them back out after buffing for a raid buff/debuff alt

And not only that, since they can heal solo instead of bringing 2+ priests, it leaves more room open for more...useful...classes or alts.


This is no stab at you as a priest main. I'm sure, as far as priest mains go, you do very well..But as Bob Dylan once said: The times, they are a changin'

And this is it here. Druids can solo heal with ease while also bringing more usefulness to the party through seeds. There's no real reason whatsoever to bring two priests when you could bring one Druid that can do the job better.

@Magio

Yes this with the priests thing. We have the same situation with two p/k who refuse to play anything else. That's fine they just don't run. We have a wl/m who would probably prefer to be a m/w but he's the most useful on warlock so he helps the party by playing that. It's all about not being selfish and playing what the party requires. If you have the ability to be useful to the party, then you should do it. .

hell even stupid cerb made a ch/p m/wl wl/m alt (only ch/p atm) not done yet of course but eventually ill be able to bring alongside with me atleast one combo of what party is missing XD.
Step it up people! Dont be a one trick pony.
I tank/dps and bring atleast a ch/p alt with me atm.
Just need another xp event to finish! jkjk

OH and btw....
see attachment

Quoted from "Borella"

@Magio

Yes this with the priests thing. We have the same situation with two p/k who refuse to play anything else. That's fine they just don't run. We have a wl/m who would probably prefer to be a m/w but he's the most useful on warlock so he helps the party by playing that. It's all about not being selfish and playing what the party requires. If you have the ability to be useful to the party, then you should do it. .

Just a couple clarifications and caveats:

The wisdom that has been passed down for years in the forums is that players should play whatever combo they like, regardless of the end-game ramifications. It shouldn't be on the player to conform or sit on the sidelines, that ruins the fun for many players and makes those of us who advocate playing what you enjoy hypocritical.

Second, while the justification used to bring alts instead of those unwilling to conform is a valid one, it is only valid for those groups who intend to burn every boss. Now before some of you chime in on burn vs. strat or how burn is the only way to do it right now or some other rationale, I think that is a separate conversation all together and only contributory to my point. That point is this: if we are going to encourage folks to play
what they want then there should be something for them to do at level cap other than being forced to play something they don’t particularly enjoy playing. It is a game after all and that’s all it is – a video game, something we do for fun and often pay good money for that privilege.

I believe that as the mergers come closer to becoming a reality, this is yet again an excellent time to try and establish a well thought out dialog with GF/RW on changes that we feel will both help the player base and either make GF/RW more money or at least not lose them any through the implementation. One such suggestion that I as well as others have posted in the past is to change the normal versions of dungeons to 12 player instead of 6 like it was back when level 55 was the level cap.

This would give those players mentioned above who refuse to change their combo as well as many others a dungeon option that they can enjoy with their friends and guilds. Hard mode can stay hard mode, easy mode can stay easy mode and the current instance tuning can remain the same. Just adding more people to the run does not guarantee more people will run it or even complete it if they do. What it DOES do is give the OPTION for players to get more involved. It gives the OPTION to bring players who don't run the few “optimal” combos a chance to participate. It gives guilds the “option” to bring along some newly level capped guildee to help them get some gear without having to worry if they will have enough dps to down the bosses. It gives guilds the “option” to bring their people into normal mode to train them to run hard mode.

Does this ruin anyone’s fun who currently runs normal mode instances? I can’t see how. Want to still run it with 6 people? By all means, it’s not like people are farming the heck out of normal mode of any instance anyway or if they are, the drops sure are not making it into the AH.

Even after the mergers, if everything goes well and the populations on the servers provide more opportunity, the situation will not change it will be amplified. The same people who run HM now will run HM then. The same people who have to sit the sidelines now will have to sit the sidelines again. Give players something to do and they just might stay around a bit longer. Give them something to do where they can play the game their way, using the combo they enjoy and who knows what might happen.

It doesn't matter how many people you allow into an instance. If you refuse to fix the classes. There are far too many classes and combos that are totally useless. It doesn't matter how you buff, gear or use them they contribute so little to a raid their net effect is negative. At some time they have fix the classes and combos or just write off all the people who play them as they have for the past few years.

There is no reason other than spite held by some people in management against certain classes that every class and combo isn't playable in endgame. It isn't that they can't fix them. It is just that some people in management have a personal animosity against certain classes and refuse to allow them to be fixed so that they can be playable in this game.