Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Cike"

Quoted from "zrorak"

Add wisdom and stamina multiplier on skills so a mage can stat stamina and wisdom

won't do anything noticeable.

i say increase the boost from plasma arrow, or make the increased damage to electric explosion worth using. either one would start forcing mages to use a rotation to maximize dps.

(worst case, have wind skills buff the next fire damage, and fire skills buff the next wind damage taken/done)

Unless they do a huge boost or rework the 0.5s casts, it still wouldn't be worth losing 1-2 flames just from trying to click another skill inbetween. That, or we'd all be forced to use DIYCE, since doing a rotation at 0.5 seconds would be hella hard. Unless you made the filler casts have really long cast times to make it easier, but that would require insanely long cast times, since with guitar, M/W can reduce up to a 5s cast spell down to 0.5s.

@zrorak Most of what you described are not mage specific issues, but is true for all DPS classes.

Would be nice if wisdom stats are useful, but unless wisdom gives ma, Cike is right that a wisdom multiplier does nothing. I mean, even if mages had 30k wis, that wisdom multiplier would have to be huge to even make a noticable difference on a 5m flame.
Flame with CD would be awful. Casting speed buffs alone is a 6x increase in DPS, so unless you buff instant casts by 6x, instants just won't be useful during burn and you wouldn't even be able to burn with flame because of CD.

mage is in the same boat as rogue

1 strong combo for each

cant just buff mage or rogue core because it just makes the 1 strong combo stronger and people just pick it because it's best (look at the recent scout "fix")

so it comes down to balancing through elite skills, or designing instances in such a way that burst dps isn't the sole measurement of a class' worth

Now looking at Runewaker's history of instances from 90 down to 80 (no experience in 95 myself) the overwhelming majority of the bosses are just burn and pray so you can count out instance design as a balancing tactic.

That leaves you with a burn mode benchmark and there's no easy way to bring up sub combos within one class without a bit of testing, and we know how Runewaker and Gameforge are when it comes to putting resources into RoM (absolute minimum).

You'll end up with the same thing as scouts, a bandaid boost and the top one or two classes being viable, the rest ignored.

And seeing as how m/w is currently viable I don't think there will be any change to it. Maybe (imo ain't happening) some quality of life changes to tac smash and instruments like others have previously mentioned, but I severely doubt there will be any changes to the mage class itself.

We can all dream for more, but the fact remains that minimal resources get put into RoM and it's basically just a cash grab from the people that run along on the gear treadmill.

Quoted from "TWMXC"

but I severely doubt there will be any changes to the mage class itself.

if the past has pointed towards anything, i'd put money on the fact that wisdom and bravery getting recalc is really the only thing that is going to happen to m/w.

Yeah the only change thats likely to happen is they'll nerf W+B so that nobody plays the mage class. Might as well kill it completely.

Quoted from "Cike"

Quoted from "TWMXC"

but I severely doubt there will be any changes to the mage class itself.

if the past has pointed towards anything, i'd put money on the fact that wisdom and bravery getting recalc is really the only thing that is going to happen to m/w.

Agreed.
R.i.P Mages when it does.

Well, that or the equally typically "meh too lazy to change it".

I agree with racer completely, also i think zora was getting at building a rotation so that you wouldnt have to keep spaming flame and each of those skills in that rotation would boost each skill individually overall doing a better burn and sustained amout of damagage like reworking skills.
I have also suggested 80/80 elites but everytime i mentioned it ppl were like we dont need elites rom needs to fix rom. but hey i think new elites making up for each individual class will be better and easier imo but i also suggest reworking of other classes.

Nerfing wisdom and bravery lvl 70 m/w elite would decrease m/w dps, since m/w relies on Rage mana + berserk+Intensification+ Wisdom and bravery to get high enough magic attack and dmg, even with all those buffs up, a m/w can barely match a warden/scout or r/m dps, forcing people to re roll to FOTM classes.
What mages need is a increase in dmg on class specific skills( so it doesnt affect other combos like w/m and k/m ), as some people said reworking mage skills would take ages, the easier and faster ways are the following options :
1. Increase Fire and Wind dmg pasives
2. Add Int modifier to Flame (like fireball)
3. Add %chance to Flame to place Elemental weakness debuff on tarjet( make Elemental weakness a pasive skill)
4. Lower cooldown of Electrostatic charge ( 30% absorb is ok, but warden absorb is even better)
5. Increase magic dmg on 2h staff. Example:
I do siege war as m/p with full pve gear with t10+16 lvl 95 staff and my Flame hits any enemy for 80k-90k, but a warden with lvl95 weapon tier10 can hit me 180k with 1 of those ranged skills that are instant cast).
There is a big difference in dmg melee vs magic and its because of weapon damage.

Rkshield
Mithras- Whiteshark guild
M P W 95 81 70

full pve gear and you hit for 80-90k in siege? Your gear must be terrible to have it being so low, even as m/wd my instant skills hit for more lol, and that's with full pvp gear and buffing to about 110k matt or something.

Elite is better than all of that and just making wb do str and stam on your primary gear instead of being able to do burn would be good so mages can stat int/stam and have decent hp and do good dps.
Also mages do hit about that much in sw more or less only mages that have killed me or m/wrd and a m/s from a guy on this form.
I think the new staves and wands did get a boost in mdam but dont think it was that much i dont remember but they still might need more of a boost

Quoted from "Cenre"

full pve gear and you hit for 80-90k in siege? Your gear must be terrible to have it being so low, even as m/wd my instant skills hit for more lol, and that's with full pvp gear and buffing to about 110k matt or something.

Sounds legit if warden has siege gear. I have nearly equivalent Pdef/Mdef, but I rarely get hit by flame for more than 60k except for PvE geared mages, though I take a lot of 150k+ hits from siege geared melee.

My gear is not great but i do siege war with like 170k magic attack and 90k hp as m/p. What i was explaining is that while i do 80k dmg with flame casting 3sec, other melee like warden deal me 180k instant, and rogues 110k instant. I will try next siege war and get some numbers to show as Well as gear comparison.
M/wd does great in pvp it can down any player even with 400k hp, but i am human and i like pvping as m/p holy aura is great but just lack dmg

Anyway talking about PvP and siege wars, its a 1 shot fest, u can get op PvP gear tier 8 but still if u are a mage u will die from 4 hit max

Rkshield
Whitesharks

Quoted from "zrorak"

My gear is not great but i do siege war with like 170k magic attack and 90k hp as m/p. What i was explaining is that while i do 80k dmg with flame casting 3sec, other melee like warden deal me 180k instant, and rogues 110k instant. I will try next siege war and get some numbers to show as Well as gear comparison.

And you still only hit for 80-90k Flames? That can't be right considering those stats. I have both a lower staff & old outdated gear that ranges from level 62-80 with stats that range from ToSH up to Belathis. I'm in very old gear and still hit harder with less.

In siege, I buff to 271k HP, 138K mattk, 104k pdef, and 206k mdef. I am a mage/priest in old pve gear..... Granted I will hit similar flames against a healer or maybe an OP champ, but my flames usually range in the upper 100k's to 250k depending on the opposition's class. My fireball usually hits for 80-100k, and my Flame Dance usually hits for 120-140k. None of my skills are leveled beyond 80 btw.


I've been reading this thread over and I've been meaning to throw my two cents in, but I'm not quite there yet. Still got some thinking to do about the current mage situation.
I do however, greatly agree that considering what other classes can do not only instantly is much greater than our most powerful skill which takes 3 seconds to charge.

Problem with this thread is most the players aren't even close to endgame, yet comparing themself/the mage class to an endgame geared skilled melee player/class.

The mage class could get simple tweaks, guitar and lute stack, lowering cast speed cap etc. Other than the small stuff, it's gonna need a complete overhaul of the mage class(rotation, elite skills..) to suit what some of you want.

As for people comparing a m/p to wd/w dps in an endgame instance, you're retarded, please leave.

Quoted from "ancientgear"

Flame should be hitting as hard as snipe, if not harder. idc if that means the bosses go down in 2-3 seconds. All that shows is that bosses need more hp and def. Because if the mages actually get the performance they deserve then the melee will have to leave their high chair and their sweet life behind and actually work for a living.

I can't believe you actually flame WarriorKing in his w/m threads, and then you say something like this.

This thread is getting worse and worse. It's entertaining though, keep it going.

Quoted from "Meijf"

Problem with this thread is most the players aren't even close to endgame, yet comparing themself/the mage class to an endgame geared skilled melee player/class.

^ this. No disrespect but the issue about Mage in endgame burn got diluted by many midgame anecdotes. Specially about PvP... this is about PvE burns. Sorry guys, but M/P is not viable in endgame burn and it won't be anytime soon.

Quoted from "Meijf"

The mage class could get simple tweaks, guitar and lute stack, lowering cast speed cap etc. Other than the small stuff, it's gonna need a complete overhaul of the mage class(rotation, elite skills..) to suit what some of you want.

I feel like people skip/ignore posts. Or they get to a detail in an extensive post they don't like and just ignore the rest...something's going on because this was already mentioned before here. Sorry guys... overhaul won't happen. It's Runewaker, the people that just moved Server clock in the wrong direction xD I'd be scared if they announced they were planning an overhaul on Mage.

Quoted from "Meijf"

As for people comparing a m/p to wd/w dps in an endgame instance, you're retarded, please leave.

Harsh but true.

Quoted from "Meijf"

I can't believe you actually flame WarriorKing in his w/m threads, and then you say something like this.

Yup. I asked around to find out who this guy is after so many flawed suggestions. Still don't know but by some of his posts I'm starting to doubt his self-proclaimed endgame status.



Here's the deal. Game has multiple classes and you're able to switch back and forth, right?

You want burst damage? Roll classes that do burst damage. Want sustained damage? Roll classes that do sustained damage. You're being childish prima donnas by rolling classes that don't have the kit for what you want to do and throwing tantrums and qq'ing about changing them to your wants (key here, wants not needs).

"Oh no my super sustained-damage-dealing Warmage doesn't do as good burst as X/Y combo T^T Please giff me 100% wah! wah!".... it's a sustained damage class combo for a reason. Best one in the game in that department in many people's books actually...

Now that that is out of the way... Mage/Warrior and Mage/Warden are the Mage burst damage combos. Mage/Warden needs a bit more building around it so we're using Mage/Warrior mostly for the basis of our suggestions, keeping Mage/Warden in mind for balance issues in both PvE and PvP.



Time to put this thread back on its rails. In no particualr order the best suggestions so far:

1) Fire/Wind Knowledge increase. This is actually a really lazy change that I'm sure Runewaker would be willing, and able, to implement (very similar to the Scout change). What I don't like is that it's a passive buff(But then again Scout got it too). Although that would help a bit with the super low Mage sustained that we already have.

2) 20% Mdef reduction on Tactial Smash+19, non-stackable M/P, P/S, D/Wd magic attack/damage buffs. I really like this one because it would do away with the main reason I stopped playing Mage. The tedious work. Now my tank will carry with me that 20%ish magic attack for me on his TacSmash in the form of a 20% debuff on the target instead of those two pesky buffs that have me overbuff during burn sometimes ;D

3) Guitar/Lute stacking. I believe only Scout, as a physical DPS, would benefit from this. I don't think it will be gamebreaking since Snipe still has a 12s cooldown. Meanwhile this will allow Mage burn to be a bit longer but not gamebreaking. Would break the stigma for caster/melee segregation we have a bit.

4) Casting speedcap reduced from .5s to .33s (this varies). Honestly finding the sweet spot would be so easy if either a) Runewaker had a public test server or b) Runewaker revisited changes in a timely fashion. Which neither is true. Lower cast cap. See what happens in a week. Mage too strong now? Raise casting speed cap back up a little. Not enough? Lower it a bit.

Can we please, please keep the conversation from now on on these 4 ideas.

Quoted from "Magío"

Time to put this thread back on its rails. In no particualr order the best suggestions so far:


1) Fire/Wind Knowledge increase. This is actually a really lazy change
that I'm sure Runewaker would be willing, and able, to implement (very
similar to the Scout change). What I don't like is that it's a passive
buff(But then again Scout got it too). Although that would help a bit
with the super low Mage sustained that we already have.

2) 20% Mdef reduction on Tactial Smash+19, non-stackable M/P, P/S, D/Wd magic attack/damage buffs. I really like this one because it would do away with the main reason I stopped playing Mage. The tedious work. Now my tank will carry with me that 20%ish magic attack for me on his TacSmash in the form of a 20% debuff on the target instead of those two pesky buffs that have me overbuff during burn sometimes ;D

3) Guitar/Lute stacking. I believe only Scout, as a physical DPS, would benefit from this. I don't think it will be gamebreaking since Snipe still has a 12s cooldown. Meanwhile this will allow Mage burn to be a bit longer but not gamebreaking. Would break the stigma for caster/melee segregation we have a bit.

4) Casting speedcap reduced from .5s to .33s (this varies). Honestly finding the sweet spot would be so easy if either a) Runewaker had a public test server or b) Runewaker revisited changes in a timely fashion. Which neither is true. Lower cast cap. See what happens in a week. Mage too strong now? Raise casting speed cap back up a little. Not enough? Lower it a bit.

Can we please, please keep the conversation from now on on these 4 ideas.

Personally i think suggestions:

2) is a good suggestion, it benefits any magical class while the trade-in is that those M/P, P/S, D/Wd magic attack/damage buffs wont stack & it will be mostly used only at boss fights. Very balanced suggestion.

3) is a great suggestion, it won't break anything & would help in making parties more versatile.
In addition i would make the suggestion: 'Make all music stack'.

1 & 4) are not bad suggestions, but with suggestion 1 only mages will benefit & with suggestion 4 only the m/w & Chiron will benefit.


Personally i would trade in suggestion 1 & 4 for an adjustment in the cast damage formula as suggested here because it benefits not only mages but any caster combo (since they also need some love) while it won't break pvp (not looking at m/wd ).


For the rest this is a good (and sometimes entertaining) thread if people can keep there focus on balance.

Those 4 ideas are good I also do believe rom has a test server but there are requirements and stuff not sure the ppl on it or endgamers.

Also you are right I don't consider myself an endgamer but I do feel I am quite knowledge on m/w and ancient isn't endgame as I siege his guild and 5 of them were attacking me and I killed them all.

Also the only reason why I brought up the w/m 100% was because back in the day when I played I had 100% and I didn't noticed they debuffed it till Grotto opened and I was like why.
That is w/m's primary skill and as we all know most fights in game or burn and o like w/m I don't want to spend time lvling another class and refer that when my class can get adjusted.
Ppl noticed w/m was better with cloth and int as opposed to chain and str. Warden/w did the same it was tank but took advantage of it skill set and went dps same as ch/r my class shouldn't have been nerf because of sw rom should have adjusted skills attack on players like lighting and silence .
W/m has to get all those buff and mdef red to do ok that is why I want 100% as mdef is higher now it would only be right but I know it might never happen and I'm cool with that but I won't most likely play again seriously.
Also don't get rid of stacking just make it allowable to stack one ma and one mdam buff and do same for melee.

Also on ancient you wild and you were hurting your case magio actually turned it back around.

Also m/p used to be viable and I don't remember ppl comparing m/p it was probably compared to m/w most likely and m/w was compared to wrd/w.
Also besides me and ancient ppl like boreal and racer or endgame and they know what they are talking about.
And we all agree m/w is viable but the work required to make it viable and than the output and the amount of that output is insane.
Also I don't qq unless I see something is unjust.

But let's focus on mage and no trolling like flame doing snipe damage lawl.
Also they can nerf wb all they want as long as they compensate for the loss by reworking mages.

quoted from magio

Quoted

You want burst damage? Roll classes that do burst damage. Want sustained damage? Roll classes that do sustained damage. You're being childish prima donnas by rolling classes that don't have the kit for what you want to do and throwing tantrums and qq'ing about changing them to your wants (key here, wants not needs).

wow finally someone says it. If you want something that does X then roll Y class it's not like you don't have the choice or option to do so.

magio's suggestion 2-3 are good and been mentioned many times, doesn't seem like anyone has an issue with it. Changing the wind/fire passives might make m/wd too strong. Changing the cast speed limit is likely a hard one to code and an even harder one to balance, i would rather not touch it.

if you want to touch the casting formula, it also means that heals will benefit from the change, heals are already strong enough as it is plz don't do that, don't want to destroy siege. what could be done though is change the way magic skills work so they can be % of mdam just like melee skills are % of main hand dps. would probably be better than changing the cast formula.

other suggestion would be to make w+b recalculated like any other buff, but make it increase magic damage by the % of dps loss from the change. I do not have the numbers so say how much that is, but should be able to calculate it soon.

note: last time m/p was viable(pve) was in tosh when they could cleanse ppl and offheal on first boss the class is still ok in pvp.

Well no one wants to reroll when they already invested time and money on that class most would rather quit like they did.
It's funny magio says that but he stated he doesn't play anymore why?
M/w m/wd have potential to be more desirable if the changes or implemented also giving hope to m/p etc.

You expect rogues to to wrd/w because they are getting out beat how about giving the classes a boost to rival them.
I refuse to go wrd/w even tho I have the money I wouldn't have the time and even if I could get a wrd/w I still would I like w/m buy I hate m/w but I play m/w because it's better dps but I got tired because spamming flame in one spot is lame.
While w/m can move around and has more to offer imo.