Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Meijf"

Problem with this thread is most the players aren't even close to endgame, yet comparing themself/the mage class to an endgame geared skilled melee player/class.

Quoted from "Meijf"

The mage class could get simple tweaks, guitar and lute stack, lowering cast speed cap etc. Other than the small stuff, it's gonna need a complete overhaul of the mage class(rotation, elite skills..) to suit what some of you want.

Quoted from "Meijf"

As for people comparing a m/p to wd/w dps in an endgame instance, you're retarded, please leave.

Zzz man read a bit my post i was doing an example of a personal experience from PvP siege war, not pve endgame instance as you say. From what i read from u, u just came to Flame people and i dont see any good suggestion coming from you since the Topic is "mages and class balance"

Quoted from "Meijf"

Quoted from "ancientgear"




Flame should be hitting as hard as snipe, if not harder. idc if that means the bosses go down in 2-3 seconds. All that shows is that bosses need more hp and def. Because if the mages actually get the performance they deserve then the melee will have to leave their high chair and their sweet life behind and actually work for a living.

That has a bit of true, i dont think people that left mage side to roll rogue,warden of warrior, will like that their old broken class could become OP forcing them to reroll mage again

Quoted from "Meijf"

I can't believe you actually flame WarriorKing in his w/m threads, and then you say something like this.

Quoted from "Meijf"

This thread is getting worse and worse. It's entertaining though, keep it going.

As you say, mages gonna need a complete overhau but this would take years, i suggested some quick and easy fixes like adding int modifiees, debuffs, staff dmg

Quoted from "Meijf"

Problem with this thread is most the players aren't even close to endgame, yet comparing themself/the mage class to an endgame geared skilled melee player/class.

Enlighten us with ur end game knowledge, i hope u playing a mage class

Quoted from "Meijf"

The mage class could get simple tweaks, guitar and lute stack, lowering cast speed cap etc. Other than the small stuff, it's gonna need a complete overhaul of the mage class(rotation, elite skills..) to suit what some of you want.

M/w good pve, M/wd good PvP, the rest combos is mid or low at pve or PvP.
What about m/s m/r m/d m/p m/k ,they need some love too


Rkshield
M/P/W 95 82 70
Whitesharks

quoted from magio

Quoted

Quoted




You want burst damage? Roll classes that do burst damage. Want
sustained damage? Roll classes that do sustained damage. You're being
childish prima donnas by rolling classes that don't have the kit for
what you want to do and throwing tantrums and qq'ing about changing them
to your wants (key here, wants not needs).


gotta agree with Magio on this too, omg the world is ending now since i agreed with him

From Warriorking :

Quoted

Well no one wants to reroll when they already invested time and money on that class most would rather quit like they did.
It's funny magio says that but he stated he doesn't play anymore why?
M/w m/wd have potential to be more desirable if the changes or implemented also giving hope to m/p etc.

Well if you can't afford to make or play another class now that we have Class expansion tickets it is sad. Every class over the years had to learn to reroll, make another toon ( before Class expansion tickets ) to play what Runewaker makes as FOTM. It is how they make money for their publishers and players spend money.

Quoted

You expect rogues to to wrd/w because they are getting out beat how about giving the classes a boost to rival them.
I
refuse to go wrd/w even tho I have the money I wouldn't have the time
and even if I could get a wrd/w I still would I like w/m buy I hate m/w
but I play m/w because it's better dps but I got tired because spamming
flame in one spot is lame.
While w/m can move around and has more to offer imo.

No one tells anyone to play other classes then the one you want, it is your choice. Want to be listed on top scrutinizer in every runs or group? people tell you how on this thread, still your choice.

My M/wrd does pretty well for a noob playing it and i have fun with it every time. Would i like it to do more? yes of course but it suits me well and my guild. A lot of what i see is people demanding boost this, nerf that etc, i get it, but, why not instead fix bosses with stupid 20 second fights or DIE!!! HoE/C/F/W have stupid mechanics, make the fight doable in a 5/10 minute fights at least. We had GCH/SC/TOSH/Beth have great mechanics to them and lots of fun to run. But now people think they are below those instances and not worth their time since they have nothing to gain from it. What about giving other people experience on higher level and more difficult instances to learn what it takes to run them and what to improve so they get better for the whole server?

Also people talking about endgame gear, runs etc should be the ones here talking about that, i have been in some and it takes a lot. ( I am not endgame by any means )

People want to do more damage etc, start by clean T9, T10 stating your gear and at least T12/13/14 dirty stat your weapon. The new T10 weapon back in the day should be at least T12 now.

Gotta say good thread for a lot of you and informative and this is only my two cents from a noob M/wrd

Well zid if it's sad ppl can't afford to regear or to have time to do so.
Than I got to say why should ppl have to help ppl that arent able to do those instances we can so why can't they ?
Also no one wants to invest money if the cost outweighs the benifit.
Also I agree with taking away 20 sec fights but what we are talking about here isn't just about burn it's about sustained dps.

Zidlef i also agree that dungeons need to be reworked since the requirements to run lvl 80+
+ dungeons are high and most of the time u cant find a group easily like in old days the server was full of public parties looking for dps tanks healers.
Right now is more profitable and easier to just run minigames and events than spending hours on running something, only few people geared enough can run end game or mid gamex if u got friends.
But thats a whole new topic, we can make some sugestions like lowering bosses and trash dmg of all the dungeons lvl 1-85 and increasing boss hp so the fight will last longer and u dont get 1 shot and low geared people will be able to run. And also delete attunement from lower lvl dungeons, make easy mode drop decent stats so people can stop doing minigames for stats, and idk maybe lets make a new topic about it and lets focus on "Mages and class balance"

Trash mobs in dungeons are fine Rkshield, i feel that every dungeon should have an attunement to get in them, but that is just my opinion. And i will make a thread for these since it is a whole other conversation

Well bosses do %based I believe or the new instances seem to be more strat I would like them to bring back attunement.
Also some people you just can't help I realized that if they don't want to help themselves they won't progress.
Some people have potential but don't take advice and don't think. For example always re rolling or not budgeting or gear and starting right and than wonder why they don't get runs.
Also the ppl who don't have that much potential want handsout.
I have only helped about a good 10 ppl progress out of about 100 more or less so yeah.

Wl/M fire ward is a 50%+ boost. I think that's a little excessive. Also remember the best burn Mage, Mage/Warrior, already pushes the buff cap with their current kit. Adding more "necessary" buffs from outside sources is just... bleh.

As a 10 minute buff Wl/M alts to buff Mages in siege will start to be a thing. Mage/Warden will be broken. People already complain enough as it is. As you keep posting it just seems you want to buff Mage/Warrior and don't care about the consequences of your suggestions at all... You've become what you hated most lol... word.


I'd still take tac smash - stackable buffs anyday over any other suggestion I've seen so far. The damage is fine imo, it's the work that killed it for me. I wouldn't mind a small boost though as long as it doesn't require outside source >.> Would be nice if it didn't take another buff slot too! One can dream.

The only other real problem is that mage really requires d/wdn to be viable. And every group runs with a d/w because they're mostly melee. This isn't really a balance problem more the fact that nobody runs with more than one druid anymore which is a game problem. Should be running with several healers that's just a problem with the game at this point.

Small boost + remove the amount of work required as Magio said. If they could find a way for m/w to do its current dps without needing two complete sets of gear that would be nice too.

Okay, So I finally took the time to break down things that could be done to the mage class to make it a lil more viable and powerful but at the same time, not make it drastically OP. FoTM can keep their top spot, but they shouldn't leave us so far back in the dust that we're always near the bottom. Keep in mind that I'm going to touch on every mage skill and suggest multple changes to it. I am NOT pushing to have all of these changes implemented but rather just making as many suggestion as I can. Maybe certain combinations of my suggestions can be used to breathe new life into the mage. I also want to add that I have never really looked at the damage formulas so all of my numbers aren't to be taken seriously, but rather just taken into consideration as a concept. With that out of the way, let's talk skills.

1. Elemental Catalysis
-Add an intel modifier to. At level 65 the 2% mana regen was swapped for a 50% cast speed boost. Maybe at level 100, a +10% intel can be added along with the power/speed boost resulting it it buffing three things instead of two.
-Allow mages to bypass the 0.5s cast speed cap when Catalysis is active

2. Flame
-Add an intel modifier to it but keep it low. Maybe a .10 x Int similar to plasma arrow
-Maybe power up your next fire based move when it is used with the effect only being able to trigger every 20 seconds or so.

3. Plasma Arrow
-Extend the charge time from 5 seconds to 15 seconds. 5 Seconds is not enough time to get anything done.
-Higher Crit boost from being charged. Combine this with the 15 second extension
-Add an additional increase of critical damage by a % for the charges duration. 10-15%?
-If too powerful, then make it so once the charged state is achieved, it cannot be regained until 20 seconds has passed after the first charge as run out. Either make it so you just don't get the charge, or place a cooldown on plasma arrow.

4. Fireball
-Leave it as is
-Possibly have increased damage if Fireball follows a Flame cast.

5. Eruption
-Keep the same % chance of eruption, but make the 2nd strike hit for more damage. 15% more than 1st.
- Maybe get a temporary buff to your next fire cast once an eruption occurs. Effect cannot be triggered for 20seconds.

6. Lightning
-No changes needed

7. Discharge
-Remove the 3 second effect for players. If other classes can stun for 8 seconds plus/fear for 5 seconds, a mage should be allowed to stun for 5 seconds.

8. Electric Bolt
- Increase the damage of the DOT. Doesn't have to be on par with a r/s's vamp arrow, but a small increase would help over time. hehe get it? Over time.

9. Wisdom
-Leave it as is, but for the love of all that is good in the word, give this skill a proper name .

10. Intensification
-Make it actually increase damage. I know that this would make the K/M hit harder, so instead of increasing damage overall, just have this damage modifier added on to SPELLS, not physical hits that the k/m has. Maybe change the K/M's divine intense skill to better suit it kind of how M/W has.

11. Silence
- No changes needed here.

12. Fire Ward
-Add a small fire damage boost to it. Maybe 10%
-Make the fire resistance much greater as well as % based. "If received damage is flame type, damage will be reduced by 10% up to 40%."
-If the above is implemented, make a similar change to the Priest's Blessed Spring Water. This would make the m/p able to resist Fire/Water. This change would incur multiple wards being added as elites to other mage combos. Every mage would have the natural Fire resist and your second class would determine your secondary resist. Rogue gets Dark, Knight gets light, Warden/Druid get Earth, Champ/Scout get Wind, Warlock..... I don't know.

13. Meteor Shower
-Buff the damage of meteor shower.
-Remove the Mind Attack Debuff preventing you from casting another.
-Perhaps it's damage type change depending up your secondary
-Add a slowing effect per hit taken. 10% slowdown per hit meaning you could slow someone down by 50% if you hit them with all 5 shots. Slow down could last for 5 seconds.

14. Electric Explosion
-Keep the damage the same but double the intel modifiers. May have to give it a cool down if combined with the Plasma Arrow charge buff.
-Buff the damage a perhaps give allow it to inflict a status de-buff. Being charged would result in a greater debuff. Maybe the target could have a 5% mdef reduction raised to 10%. Or increase the targets received magical damage. Again, this effect would only be able to trigger every 20 seconds or so.

15. Phoenix
- Increase the damage dramatically if none of the following changes happen. If the following chages do happen, minor damage increase.
- Extend the range of the skill from 120 to 200. Change from a frontal AOE to a single target cast that hits everything between the caster and his/her target.
-If the 120 range is retained, have the damage increase based on the number of targets hit up to 3. Each additional target would increase the damage by 20% resulting in a max 60% damage boost. If this is done, no initial damage increase to the skill's base dmg would be needed.

16. Electric Compression
-Leave it as is

17. Static Field
-Fix the bug that causes anyone hit with this skill to spontaneously restore their HP to full. Same goes from Numbing Dagger btw.

18. Wind/Fire Knowledge
-Raise the damage slightly from 63% max to 75%. If certain suggestions from previous skills are implemented though, no change should be needed here.

19. Purgatory Fire
-Leave it as is

20. Energy Influx
-Leave it as is or convert it to a passive crit boost.

21. Energy Well
-Leave it as is or add a slight magical attack boost to it. Slight.... cause it's a 40second buff.

22. Elemental Weakness
-This skill augments at level 65 from decreasing a targets resistance to reducing magical defense. Instead of changing them, have the two versions combined resulting in both resistance and mdef reductions.
-Increase the reduction

23. Thunderstorm
-Leave it as is.

24. Stone Scale Blade
-Raise damage slightly.

25-26. Lucky Chance/Magic Tricks
-Leave them as is

27. Unharmed
-Add an additional increase in magical attack. Maybe cap the magic attack boost at 15 or 20k? This would allow mages to not be so reliant on magical attack food. They could swap to damage food more comfortably and increase their dps. If this effect doesn't fit Unharmed, throw sage out and replace it with this effect.

28. Earth Collapse
-At level 65, the skill goes from 1500 + .20x Int Earth damage to 100% Earth damage. This almost looks like a nerf, but if it was a buff, bring back the int modifier on top of the 100% Earth Damage.

29. Sage
-Delete this skill and replace it with something more useful such as the suggestion from Unharmed.

30. Sword of Divinity
-Needs a damage increase
-Add Intel Modifier
-Change the 15% increase in received healing to a restoration of 15% hp.

31. Electrostatic Charge
-No change really needed but if some were done, consider the following two buffs
-Decrease the cooldown from 120seconds to 90, or even 60. Champ/Mage can have constant Barrier if it's not broken, why not mage?
-Maybe add a % damage reduction when the shield is active to help the lower hp mages out there than can't generate an 80k shield.
-Add a buff that triggers when the shield is broken. The buff could reduce all damage by 10% and increase movement speed by 15%. Kind of like a shield burst panic. Only add this last one if none of the others are.

I like this guy he has some really good and interesting ideas i would like the fireball to be able to be used after flame causes a burning effect and when fireball is used it causes good amount of damage making the target more vunerable to firedamage and causing a burning effect.

Also on the intensification they should adjust it for pvp they should adust skills for pvp but tbh i hae seen ppl regear and tank my w/m nicely sometime causing me to go all out and i rarely do unless im getting wrecked.
Also i doubt most of it would get implemented due to the amount of coding for some but some seem pretty easy to code also w+b could be converted to apply for one gear so that ppl can stat int stam like mystic did in the past and still do good.

Mystic only started int/stam because it was cheap and he wanted to gear fast. He still made swap gear. It wouldn't be worth statting int/stam over int/ma unless it was changed to be 100% of stam converted to int.

i might not have as stylish list of recommandations, but it might be good enough for now. main idea is to give similar damage without as much trouble.

1) tac -20% mdef and remove buffs stacking.


This removes all the alts expect 1 unless you get a 2 healer instance can't do better

2) wisdom of bravery now calculates like every other buff, but also increases mdam by 40% for the duration.

why 40%? based on damage calculation you get x damage for your skill and it is multiplied by a att/def ratio. when you break the boss mdef that modifier is 1-0.5*mdef/att. based on magio's stats and on debuffed mdef of the average bp hm boss I arrive to a 0,74 ratio when he uses swap set and 0,53 ratio when he uses mage gear to cast wisdom of bravery. 0.74/53= 1.4 which means you need 40% more damage to do the damage you do with swap set using normal set. this suggestion would removes the need to have 2 sets of gear


3) make guitar stack with the other musics.

Concretly it means 1 or 2 extra flames during burns as you get your first flame off faster. not biggest of deal but a slight buff


4) Make fire/wind mastery 70% instead of 63%.


Small buff to mage damage, anything more would be too much.

Your idea might work but it doesnt solve that one flame spam thing which is lame but i guess but it could be enough idk but like cloak ideas and others on thread like making useless skills worth it but hey.
I do not agree with removing stacking tho stacking should always be an option not everyone breaks the soft cap and also if ppl see it as unfair for mages to stack do the same for mele one attack and one damage simple with the tac with mdef.

Sorry Cloak. All that work and you only made like 3 suggestions that do anything for Mage in PvE burn phase. All others are either PvE sustained or PvP changes. Instants have to hit so hard that they'd be unbalanced in PvP to replace Flame spamming in PvE.

1. Could work.I really hate how Mage relies so hard on their 5m cooldown already. When there's a 3's bosses my DPS suffers really bad. Guitar stacking with lute would quell this a bit.

Piggybacking the casting cap decrease here sounds good. It would remove the OP heals mentioned by Tankyhealy earlier.

2. INT mod would do very little for burn. 2nd Flame will hit harder, before all debuffs (specially AD) are on. Big whoop. Again won't do much.

Around 50k INT difference is only 30k damage on Plasma Arrow.


3. This is ok. Opening with Plasma Arrow to boost DPS sounds like a rotation! lol...

4. Straight up PvP change, no reason to be here. Fireball would have to hit for like 18m+ for it to be worth losing 1.5 Flames with that global cooldown in PvE. Unbalanced af in PvP. Maybe sustained damage.

5. DPS based on luck is meh. More buffs are meh. M/W's already push the 40 cap. If anything you'd start losing power with more buffs...

6. If anything Lightning needs a freaking nerf. The root is way too long.

7. Being a Mage, I disliked the nerf to Discharge, but still... it's an AoE stun. R/K stuns one target. Thunder stuns 1 target. Terror is 1 target. The only skill similar in power is Shout, capped at 5 targets with the same 3s duration stun... but it has a 2 minute cooldown... and it uses 1/3 of the Warrior's rage pool. Also this has nothing to do in PvE burn phase.

9. Agreed, change to Intellect

10. Nah, too difficult for Runewaker

12. No new buffs please. We're already pushing cap. Unless you take away M/P and P/S stacking and free up those two spaces. Or get rid of the cap entirely I will disagree with new buffs til the end of time. Everything else you mentioned is PvP.

14. Sounds ok for burn phase.

17. Might not be a bug. It's a really long disable, could be the drawback. Maybe K/S should have this drawback too ;D

18. Passive buff already mentioned earlier. Idk about passive buffs. Mage/Warden comes to mind. But it could work and lazy enough for Runewaker to implement.

20. YES LESS BUFF SLOTS. MAKE IT PASSIVE.

27. If you're using magical attack food you're doing it wrong.

29. Sage is useful when you're fighting bosses 3 levels above you in an endgame instance. I was resisted at least once per fight last time I recorded. TOO BAD I COULDN'T TAKE DRUID's SAVAGE BLESSING BECAUSE I WAS PUSHING 40 BUFFS AND ACTUALLY LOST LIKE 3 AFTER FIRST BOSS.

Quoted from "pachat93"

i might not have as stylish list of recommandations, but it might be good enough for now. main idea is to give similar damage without as much trouble.

1) tac -20% mdef and remove buffs stacking.


This removes all the alts expect 1 unless you get a 2 healer instance can't do better

2) wisdom of bravery now calculates like every other buff, but also increases mdam by 40% for the duration.

why 40%? based on damage calculation you get x damage for your skill and it is multiplied by a att/def ratio. when you break the boss mdef that modifier is 1-0.5*mdef/att. based on magio's stats and on debuffed mdef of the average bp hm boss I arrive to a 0,74 ratio when he uses swap set and 0,53 ratio when he uses mage gear to cast wisdom of bravery. 0.74/53= 1.4 which means you need 40% more damage to do the damage you do with swap set using normal set. this suggestion would removes the need to have 2 sets of gear


3) make guitar stack with the other musics.

Concretly it means 1 or 2 extra flames during burns as you get your first flame off faster. not biggest of deal but a slight buff


4) Make fire/wind mastery 70% instead of 63%.


Small buff to mage damage, anything more would be too much.

Better list imo. This is what I would want as an endgame Mage for my burn phase. I'm sure at least Borella will agree with me here... Less work, same effect. Note: Not being elitist here... this thread is about Mage in endgame burns.

1) Agree completely. +1 Note: The whole point of this is to remove the work needed. If you leave the option, people with small epeens will still do it, period. Then they will buff the mdef of future bosses because people are doing it... then the stacking buffs will become a necessity again.

P.S. If you're not breaking the cap you're either not geared enough for the instance in the first place or you shouldn't be so far behind that the two buffs will make or break the raid. Sorry your epeen will get a bit smaller since you won't buff as high...

P.P.S. Stacking patk buffs sounds terrible. Melee DPS would just skyrocket.

2) Sure why not. R/M and Wd/W elites are straight up "Click this and do x% more damage" (quote from Noblewarrior ;D) why not have the burst burn Mage combo have a similar buff?

3) Agree completely +1. Small note tho: This would help make Mage burn last longer too. Remember Bone Peak bosses aren't dying in 10 seconds.

4) Not necessary, but I don't disagree. Hopefully this wouldn't make M/Wd too strong in PvP tho.

Well melee have only one pattack buff i believe and i meant remove attack staking bujt dont remove the damage stacking with attack and make it so for melee and tbh the best idea to me is adding elites and making them make more classes useful and do better damage and i would like to see iss thats what i think is better but some of the ideas here are pretty good would like to see simulations tho but i doubt it.

i'm not sure people are really thinking through the can of worms that lowering the cast speed cap is. for example, even lowering the cap from .5s to .4s is a 25% dps increase. going to .3s is ~67% dps increase.

i'd much rather just see a flat damage buff than screwing around with sensitive game mechanics such as this.

Well you're wrong. Amplified Attack, Awakening of the Wild, throw in Hot Stew for fun. Melee are already strong enough. You qq so much about your dps compared to them and you want to buff them now? I fail to see logic here. You'll just qq even more.

Why not remove the matk/mdmg buffs stacking? Really...why not? I really want to know. You're already getting compensated with -20% mdef reduction on TacSmash in the same suggestion... WHAT'S THE BIG PROBLEM HERE WORDKING? Your epeen hurt that you won't get 1m matk on burn anymore? Cry me a river.

Lol I'm sticking by keeping atleast 1ma and 1 mdam as ppl do party with d/wrd and m/p or p/s sometI me I just said allow melee to stack 1 pa and pdam but u don't care if they get it also we do want sustained dam for mages and cloak was throwing random numbers.
Also I think aow is pa and pdam meaning melee doesn't need what I said and we need 1ma and mdam even more and I don't want to give away anymore buff see as losing buffs will not add will just make it convenient as you say when they should make instant crystals to port to parts you cleared I don't wanna lose anymore buff for mages I want to gain and don't throw in some logical twist because you know what I mean also I am tired if I wrote bs.

Also sike you are wrong .5 on 10 secs 20 flames .4 25, .333 30 flames so let's .4 is about 25 and .333 is 33% not 67%
But I am against it but it's not as bad I guess would rather have m/s have it and have the excess % turn into damage.
Also the best m/w does about 80 mil in burn so .4 would be 100m and .333 would be 107m so I'm not to against it but you factor in sw and spamming flame which I hate yeah I don't want it but would help.