Runes of Magic US / AU

Just get rid of the work. In terms of damage compared to the other classes' burst damage combos Mage/Warrior might lag just a bit behind. Not even as much as some people make it out to be.

Replace stacking buffs with Tac Smash mdef addition.

Lute and Guitar stack...


those two changes alone and the majority of the problems are gone.

Alts: 2/3 problem gone

M/W Burn is only 10s long: turns to 20s (can do .5 flames for all 12s duration of Rage Mana)

100% Magic parties having to choose between guitar for their casters and lute for their magic melee: problem gone

M/W overbuffs: 2 buff slots are saved

Quoted from "Magío"

Just get rid of the work. In terms of damage compared to the other classes' burst damage combos Mage/Warrior might lag just a bit behind. Not even as much as some people make it out to be.

Replace stacking buffs with Tac Smash mdef addition.

Lute and Guitar stack...


those two changes alone and the majority of the problems are gone.

Alts: 2/3 problem gone

M/W Burn is only 10s long: turns to 20s (can do .5 flames for all 12s duration of Rage Mana)

100% Magic parties having to choose between guitar for their casters and lute for their magic melee: problem gone

M/W overbuffs: 2 buff slots are saved

Magio, I do agree that the dps discrepancy between mage and melee may not be a large as its being made out to be. On that same note I have to ask, how is mage Aoe dps? How does that compare to any other class in the game? Is it fair they should have single target dps equal to the single target dps classes while being number 1 in aoes, and have some of the best crowd control skills? Not hammering the class but class balance is the entire class not one aspect of it.

With the buff changes and how they apply, I agree with you, and I also agree with ancientgear that catalysis should be upgraded to 50% or apply a passive 20% magical damage boost, on activation 40% total.

Quoted from "Cike"

only issue is, how to buff mdam in pve without making it stupid in pvp (blood arrow was RW's way of fixing scouts to this effect). maybe have something that increases damage taken (call it instability or something), but also increases raw mdam.

Depends on how much the buff is. Atm, mages have next to no burn in PvP. Unlike other decent DPS classes like W/Wd, R/M, Wd/W, etc. M/W is not good at PvP because of a complete lack of instant casts, which is why you see almost no M/W in siege (The one time I went M/W in siege, I watched the opponent's siege vid and they thought I was Warrior/Mage because they've never seen a Mage/Warrior in siege lol). Aside from M/Wd with their 4 seconds of "I got serened again", the rest of the mage combos don't come close to what any of the previously mentioned combos can do in terms of damage. And that's with Sta/def being a mainstream stat for PvP gear whereas sta/Mdef is a mainstream stat for the trash bin.

We've seen M/Wd Flame spam DPS in PvE, and its just slightly above what a melee can do during burn in those same 4 seconds. If a melee can do similar burn DPS in siege for 15s, I don't think its hugely unbalanced for M/Wd to do 10% more for only 4 seconds.

@Soul I think the days of mage stun rotation being critical for clearing mobs is over now. Melee groups are common now and they clear mobs just fine. Although I will withdraw a previous comment I said about mages being terrible for single target DPSing mobs. This is only true provided the mobs are burned very fast before we can get flames in with 3-4 stacks of Wl/M. With mobs living long enough for wl/m stacks to go on, I was able to do some decent mob DPS.

Well that shame, but hey m/k is still fun in pvp those running m/w should not look down on them. 8.5 secs melee can not hit you, fun fun fun. I think with 60-70 elite ( do not have them yet) you can hop and spam elite channel full length off while running. Not sure if that was intend but gives very nice damage while mobile.

Well, in regards to mages no longer clearing or being of major use at this time, you will be again soon. After all, more money in making caster role melee or melee need to role caster. Or they might do something really mean and make caster skills percent based so we only have X amount of casts lol. Worst class balancing stunt for those that remember it.

Looked it up, lvl 60 m/k elite cuts stars of light cast in half, just can not spam it.

Some entertaining previous posts...

Quoted from "SHAYdynasty"

okay, so i've never had a dps mage before so take this for what it is. I am basing these changes from what i've seen is an issue for mages i've ran with.



Cost and time (running out for buffs) is clearly more than other dps classes to just stay the same. This is obvious and unanimous. Changes have already been suggested. This i think is the biggest frustration among endgame m/w can really only be changed if Wisdom and Bravery was altered to just straight increase your int by a %, therefore throwing out the need of a swap set.



The suggested skills, I think, do not dramatically increase the already strong m/w burn. These are more to help elemental dmg dealers and off burn.

Electric Explosion

• Add a mark of explosion on the target for 8 secs. This mark is triggered (not consumed) to cause the next elemental hit double hit. Can only be triggered once per toon, per mark. [Not sure if it should cause 100% or the following hit should be for a reduced amount]
  

Okay so the key is that it can be triggered by anyone else hitting the target as long as its elemental damage (i dont know how elemental rampage is coded, but this should not be included). Therefore a group of magic dealers will all benefit from it getting a double hit.



Phoenix

• Gain the buff 'Phoenix Rejuvenation' when a target is hit. The next spell cast becomes a 1 sec cast. (Reduce this skills CD to 8 secs)

This is useless in burn since you have to get close to the boss, triggers GCD, and actually makes your flame casts longer. However this is good in trash clearing and off burn since you are able to use your hardest hitting skill more often. This however will not be a huge factor in PvP since it requires you to be in close proximity (120 range), losing that comfort of being at range. Plus this skill looks cool.

Suggestion 1 completly broken on ad, say you have 5 mages we are talking about 6 flame per mage 18m per flame (based on magi's vid prob more with m/d) 102m damage per mage from that one skill it's actually much higher then what w/s get unless they hit silent seal. Also, mage has a lot of damage outside of that one hit where for w/s it's half their damage on the boss and unlike w/s mages have to face low magic crit. If you want to implement it you would have to consume the debuff otherwise it gets completly ridiculous.

suggestion 2 just to point out i believe when you have a skill making your next skill cast time 1 second it actually makes it 1 second base then the cast time is modified by your other skills making the next flame a .5 second cast during burns. that been said m/w trash clearing potential is already pretty high so probably wouldn't change much from a pve perspective. Nothing against the idea though


To all those complaining about the low mdam on the staves, remember that the value you see on your character screen does not include your fire/wind mastery into it where for melees it does include a 70% (50% for wd) mastery. Therefore if you read 22k what you really have is more around 36k and 36k is what you should use to compare.

Quoted

Well I suggested making the mdmg boost from elemental catalysis go from 20% to 50% or more. Elemental catalysis has a 5 min cd and only lasts for 20 sec. It's defo more balanced than 50% feral leader pdmg for wd/w with 3 min cd.

wait wut o.O 1.5(50% cast speed)X1.5(50% damage) = 2.25 so increasing your dps by 125% less broken then increasing it by 50%?

am i missing something here? mages already have one of the strongest 5s in the game increasing dps by 75% for 20 seconds vs 87% for 15 seconds for scouts(best 5s in the game) to give a point of comparison warrior's 5s is 42% dps increase for 15 seconds

Quoted

But lets be honest here, if you get hit square on the face with a flame spam then you are going to die unless you use sere, immunes or silence the m/wd.

From my experience it is totally possible to tank through an entire flamespam as p/k. Regardless the idea is more damage = less time to immune/react and that is the real point. yes maybe you can't tank the entire thing, but if you can react after taking 1-2 flames and live it makes a huge difference compared to dying after the first one.

siege aside, giving m/w 30% more damage would make them completly broken in pve seen they are at most 10% behind melee classes when no m/d is in group there is no justification for making them 20-30% stronger then every other class.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
About W+B: you could either decide to increase damage or int, i believe i calculated 40% damage is the equivalent to what you get with the skill, if you go for int you could say perfect swap set gives about same stam and str as you get int not totally true but it's a good enough estimation. say you have 30k int you can expect to have about 30k stam and 30k str from your swap set give or take a few thousand stats. Therefore the buff should a) increase your buffed int by 100% and reapply the other buffs on that value(way it is currently working) or you can make it buff for 100*1.2(hero)*1.07(int wedding)*1.04(att wedding)*1.03(zodiac)*1.02(zodiac) *1.096(wisdom)*1.2(transformation potion) = roughly 185% int based on your unbuffed value. both should give the same number when you use everything although the method of using the base int as a reference would be stronger in general since you get the full benefit of using every buff in every situation. for instance you don't transfo with the 100% int based on buffed int then you are missing 44% int where as if you use the base int version of the buff you would only miss 20% int from not using the buff.(plz correct me if i'm making math mistake think i got it right but it gets a bit confusing)

for the lazy ppl the 4 options are:
a) W+B gives 40% damage instead
b) W+B gives 100% of your buffed int instead of 50% stam and str same mechanic as current form
c) W+B gives 185% of your unbuffed int and is always recalculated like other buffs
d) W+B stays the same

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
To the ppl who want to increase mage dps by 30%+:
Seriously stop trying to make mages complete gods, making them too strong is just as bad as having them not strong enough.

To the ppl who want actual balance:
just stick with magio's suggestions and should be fine, if the class is still lagging behind just make fire/wind mastery 70% to match the one of melees and the class should be balanced

@Pachat I think the 18m flame was with silent seal.

even with 9m flames you end up way too high, imagine adding 45m damage to what magio did in every scrut

Quoted from "pachat93"

Suggestion 1 completly broken on ad, say you have 5 mages we are talking about 6 flame per mage 18m per flame (based on magi's vid prob more with m/d) 102m damage per mage from that one skill it's actually much higher then what w/s get unless they hit silent seal. Also, mage has a lot of damage outside of that one hit where for w/s it's half their damage on the boss and unlike w/s mages have to face low magic crit. If you want to implement it you would have to consume the debuff otherwise it gets completly ridiculous.

My suggestion wasn't intended to make it seem like Tactical Attack or Deadly Poison Bite. The max a flame could hit, based on the suggestion would be 4 times, only if it hit the mark with an eruption. You would only be triggering one mark at a time. I thought about having it work like DPB, but it would be crazy OP, like you mentioned.

Just to make sure I understand, if you make it proc only once no matter how many debuffs there is on the boss and you can proc it only once per toon that would mean if i have 7 mages in party(5 dps+ m/wl+m/d) each of the mage can get 7 double hitting flames if everyone uses the skill giving each mage 6 extra flames total (7-1(the cost of casting the skill)).

based on this here is what i think. Aside from the it looks very hard to code problem which we can give to RW (Basically i'm not sure there is a tool in the game to know what mark has been triggered by who and give a cooldown on flame hitting twice based on that). The skill itself seems a bit strong to me at least in a full mage group. If you are the only mage in party with a m/wl you get 3 extra flames at the cost of 1 not that big of a deal. probably easiest way to balance it/solve the coding issue would be to make using electric explosion buff the mage with a 2 stack buff (it is an arbitrary number) each stack making the next flame(limiting it to flame for pvp reasons might still be too strong in pvp) double hit.

As for making the mark been consumed it wouldn't work better since say you have m/wl and m/w in group m/wl just spam the skill and ends up giving m/w double dps. Could solve the issue by giving an internal cooldown to the debuff.

Quoted from "Magío"

Just get rid of the work. In terms of damage compared to the other classes' burst damage combos Mage/Warrior might lag just a bit behind. Not even as much as some people make it out to be.

Replace stacking buffs with Tac Smash mdef addition.

Lute and Guitar stack...


those two changes alone and the majority of the problems are gone.

Alts: 2/3 problem gone

M/W Burn is only 10s long: turns to 20s (can do .5 flames for all 12s duration of Rage Mana)

100% Magic parties having to choose between guitar for their casters and lute for their magic melee: problem gone

M/W overbuffs: 2 buff slots are saved

I think we should stop discussing all other realistic to exotic game breaking idea's until these 2 idea's are implemented.
After these 2 are implemented we should reevaluate.

The good thing about these 2 idea's is that it isn't focused to boost only the best mage pve combo.
1 idea boost all magical dps classes, the other boost all caster classes (assuming lute is always played)

Also in non endgame runs (where people are used to not have every alt buff etc etc) the increase is also bigger.
After these 2 are implemented i'm curious to see what kind of shift it would make.



Sidenote to GF/RW: these 2 changes have minimal coding/testing costs...

Another idea, give regular pets another skill with % magic damage on it, the higher the pet, the more often you get the buff from him. Won't happen all the time but still good. We already have a critical damage from them but too have regular damage increase could work too?

Also the Cenedril magic pet for me, at level 50 gives me Prayer of Destruction increase magical damage by 454.5 for 10 seconds also.

Do you people use Dinner of the gods at all?? that is another increase of critical magic damage by 10% for 900 seconds.

German mages master race lol. Now I wonder why we even W/M in sustained fights...
https://youtu.be/5v2NgfmH_dc?t=51s

Fair enough, Nerf Melee's so long as you nerf Mages in Siege. Flame Spam is still the most OP skill in SW.

Umh... no? Earth fire barrier has a 3minute cooldown and if you play with sounds, and have PvP gear silencing it is easy enough. If you think its the most op skill in siege you probably didn't play siege for a while. Wl/ch with severed consciousness, or a good w/m or k/m is far more op then any m/wd flame spam.

most op skill in siege is sod atm

Anyhow I think the video prove once more that mages are not nearly as weak as somme ppl picture them and that they are a totally viable endgame option.

Ah ye, sod, knew i forgot something on the list, though still possible to kill people through it, just much harder, needs a longer cooldown, as well as a dmg reduce nerf.

30%/2minutes maybe.

Quoted from "Cenre"

Ah ye, sod, knew i forgot something on the list, though still possible to kill people through it, just much harder, needs a longer cooldown, as well as a dmg reduce nerf.

30%/2minutes maybe.

No nerf is needed to SoD. Nerfing it would break them in pve much how the P/S was broken after its nerf. From a pvp standpoint, it's not that hard if you're prepared. Three things to mind when facing and knight and you'll be fine.


1. Dot the knight with electric bolt and other dots if your class combo allows b/c they still take the full damage from the "magic bleed."

2. While doing this, restrict their movement with Stormy Chance, Ferret Sickle, Thunderstorm, Lightning, and Discharge. Don't rely on just one or two of theses skills, but be prepared to use them all against a tough knight.... Gradontiger >.>. The knight's strength lies in their ability to stun you. Keeping them at range keeps them from stunning you. Easy right?

3. If you find yourself stunned, have the appropriate immune food ready AND be ready to use those pvp gloves. If your quick enough, you'll break the stun and be immune to their followup stun. This'll give you some time to stun with discharge, throw on an electric bolt, then back away as you cast lightning and watch their HP dwindle down.

Do all the above when their SoD is up. If you kill them, good for you. If they're still alive when SoD runs out, you should be able to easily finish them.

This has been dealing with knights as a mage 101. Class dismissed.

Quoted from "Rukifellth2792"

Quoted from "Cenre"

Ah ye, sod, knew i forgot something on the list, though still possible to kill people through it, just much harder, needs a longer cooldown, as well as a dmg reduce nerf.

30%/2minutes maybe.

No nerf is needed to SoD. Nerfing it would break them in pve much how the P/S was broken after its nerf. From a pvp standpoint, it's not that hard if you're prepared. Three things to mind when facing and knight and you'll be fine.


1. Dot the knight with electric bolt and other dots if your class combo allows b/c they still take the full damage from the "magic bleed."

2. While doing this, restrict their movement with Stormy Chance, Ferret Sickle, Thunderstorm, Lightning, and Discharge. Don't rely on just one or two of theses skills, but be prepared to use them all against a tough knight.... Gradontiger >.>. The knight's strength lies in their ability to stun you. Keeping them at range keeps them from stunning you. Easy right?

3. If you find yourself stunned, have the appropriate immune food ready AND be ready to use those pvp gloves. If your quick enough, you'll break the stun and be immune to their followup stun. This'll give you some time to stun with discharge, throw on an electric bolt, then back away as you cast lightning and watch their HP dwindle down.

Do all the above when their SoD is up. If you kill them, good for you. If they're still alive when SoD runs out, you should be able to easily finish them.

This has been dealing with knights as a mage 101. Class dismissed.

And if they have a healer? ^.^ SoD is a little over the top :p I agree with not nerfing it tho, not because it would hurt pve (it shouldn't really) but because no class should be nurfed, just upsets people blah blah blah.... Bring other classes up to par is always the way to go. And thats "par" not 'stupidly overpowered buff'...