Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Cenre"

Without fotm classes you would not be clearing current endgame instances. Most aren't playing them cause they enjoy them(who reallyenjoys m/wl and wl/m support? i know i don't) but you need them to clear the content, so people play them.

EDIT: just saw blanks post, couldn't agree more.

But do people build FOM classes because the instances are harder, or are the instances harder because players are willing to build FOM toons?

imo its because instances got to hard so people had to use new classes.

This guys a troll hes quoting Soul Eater but switch it around " was madness born because of rules, or were rules born because of madness" But to answer his question it can literally be both we dont know the answer if we had stuck with our respective classes maybe rom would have nerfed instances or buffed us or they wouldnt have and we would of just went Fom like we are now.

Quoted from "mohammed1234"

This guys a troll hes quoting Soul Eater but switch it around " was madness born because of rules, or were rules born because of madness" But to answer his question it can literally be both we dont know the answer if we had stuck with our respective classes maybe rom would have nerfed instances or buffed us or they wouldnt have and we would of just went Fom like we are now.

as much as i like soul eater, it's not the first to question causation between two correlated ideas.

what came first, the chicken or the egg?


anyways, I agree that RW's "burn or die" instance strat for a couple consecutive caps is what created the era of buff alts and FotM we see today. TOSH is quoted as being the last great instance before burn or die became a thing, and lets look at why: 1) classes were (somewhat) balanced. no, they were not perfect, and there was a bunch of broken stuff, but on the heels of the ch3 scouts and subsequent nerf, class choice was somewhat more open. 2) the instance required more skill+cooperation than raw stats (didn't need OP gear if everybody just knew how the strats worked).

i'm not sure how this is relevant to the topic at hand (mage class balance), but just my 2c.

Quoted from "Cike"

didn't need OP gear if everybody just knew how the strats worked).

This was equally true with AC and KBN. And to some extent, bethomia, and later Belathis Fortress. But by the time beth was a thing, so was burn or die (started in kbn days when ppk stacked damage output to burst first quickly). IMO it was player mentality, not game developers, that propogated it. What solidified the burn-or-die mentality were the broken bosses (first boss grotto lag) and the bosses players just never figured out (ex pillars 3rd -- gm's never denied that there was a working mechanic despite my pestering in IRC/forums).

But these only came AFTER players started adopting burn or die -- up to that point instance bosses actually worked properly. You could do tosh, or sardo castle, and execute lengthy tactics to down bosses with weaker gear and be succesfful. KBN bosses were worked out, people realised how to do each one, but then also realised they could do it much faster and easier by nuking. End game guilds cleared bethomia 5 times a night, and waker groups would ask how they do it; the response they get is simply "we kill bosses in 10 seconds", which makes them strive to do the same, since it is a system clearly working for others.

If bosses worked properly, and could be completed with non-OP groups not meant to nuke things to smitherines, players wouldn't care so much about their dps.

EDIT: And to some extent, there still are NEW(er) bosses that can be done with weaker groups. I figured out how to do CoE first boss with a weak group of players, it was shockingly simple compared to some tosh or ac or sardo fights. Other groups have done other bosses, like coe 6th without bursting, and I'm sure lvl 92 or lvl 95 bosses can also be done. The issue, once again, is that some bosses are broken/bugged or just too complicated for people to figure out, thus they burn or die.

Word i agree but tbh in alot of games only endgames are able to clear instances but rom was good for that all players could run endgame if they had decent gear. Also what came first the chicken or the egg ? well neither it was the dinosaur but it seems like rom is going back to strat but you still need to be geared it seems

Quoted from "ancientgear"

Quoted from "Cike"

comparing melee and magic mechanics using 1:1 comparisons is a HUGE red flag. they are fundamentally different, and should be addressed as such.

Well I don't know how its done in US or Canada (assuming that's one of the countries you live in) but here in UK when we want to compare performance of one thing to another we keep all variables the same except for the variable that is being tested. And you are damn right mage and melee's are fundamentally different, dpsing is the only thing a mage has to offer to a raid.

But who am I to otherwise to a non end game s/d who apparently doesn't play anymore, silly me.

You keep your scientific method on your side of the pond. We'll prefer our gut instinct beliefs as opposed to your evidence based mumbo-jumbo.

I am getting a kick that mages are complaining about anything. M/W or M/Wd may be the lowest of the top DPS FOTM group but they are better DPS than 90% of all other combinations.

Go speak to any rogue/non-mage, knight/non-warrior tank, p/non-warlock, etc. about getting in a group.

*cough* k/p, p/k, p/s. and last but not least r/ alright got nothing for rogue

https://gyazo.com/2d5449400c9329ff37690240bb89ea69

https://gyazo.com/3f33a55c7c9197aed2b52ea5d8ae3007

did 1 and 2 then people had to leave... but yea, i mean the fact that 1-2 even died with a mage solo dpsing shows its possible lol, fights were like 10-15s.. gg #MagePower

This has got to be the biggest troll in history no way in hell is a Mahe solo pills nor or they able to do 1mil flames unless you discovered an op rotation plz tell ? The best m/w on my server can prob dish out 90m in pills if that with the ideal party I wants buffs and rotations and a vid because this has got to be altered I don't even think all 6 int/ma T10 gear and t16 wep can pull that off.

No I believe it. Back around the 90-92 cap, a group of guildies went into pomhm and tried to burn with a magic party. --first let me say I was in Valhalla at the time. They were like 80%magic dps in that guild. And also Valhalla believed more in having people play what they want to play vs forcing people to play as buffer alts-- they took 3 mages a healer on p/r and a k/w tank. The rest were magical buffers, like every one possible. Each were getting off 8-10m flames. The bosses died in 3-5seconds. They only did up to 3rd and quit, but still the power is there, especially if the group is specifically geared towards it. it was insane I watched it on twitch.

lol only troll here is you wk xD screen is clearly legit. You're probably just not used to making it on the scrut nice mage damage

Nah that's not it I have tested it and that kind of party only boost my overall dps by 10 to 15 mil this has got to be a troll or some new rotation I don't know about if this is legit idk what to say u got to me a magical buffer I don't know about because m/w dps doesn't get boosted much after m/wl and s/r debuff unless there's another type of wl/m only thing that would help is damage boosters and flame boosters which only wl/m gives in my imo and we usually have k/p wrd/s etc and still nothing crazy so idk how this is possible will have to see a vid because I have tried it and imo my dps is not bad

Must be user error then

Interesting thread. Not knew and has been brought up for years and years. Mages did get buffed 3-4 years ago with the greatest of them being the mage warden. Sometime after Mage Warrior got some pve improvements again I guess to give human mages a leg to stand on.

The thing I see here most is saying how mages are equal. They are not equal the closer you get to end game.

Cerbs post about his mage groups is pillars...a level 87 instance with no crit resist.

Roxins link in pillars is with 3 knight warriors. I was a proud level 66 p/s buffer in that mage challenge. But again no crit resist and its a level 87 instance 8 levels below an end gamish geared mage with super buffers.

The previous post had to be when k/w AD was still 13s. Most people werent able to start clearing pillars until level 90 cap with mixed groups and 13s AD. The ones doing it at 87 cap were no suprise r/m and wardens.

Class balancing has always been a problem in this game but melee have always had a leg up with some combo thats so far ahead in pve/pvp and mages being the daily mat farm queens.

Word ty karza there's a soft cap so I don't see how boosting with p/r and p/s is necessary with buffer gear and ad is only 3 sec now unless he has 3 wl/ms casting sc and 3 k/ws and ad and sc seal are stackable which is news to me unless they are rotating buffs but still idk

just to add to convo not upping one class or the other... did bphm last night and obv nuked 1st boss(s) as it is easy, but mages were 1-2 on scrut again in there, against 2 scouts and a rogue, yes no w/s or wd/w in party, but just showing endgame can be cleared with other classes than the fotm ones. Got third down to 20% or somewhere near there, but there was a bunch of screwups, and then we took a 20 min break, and ofc i passed out at comp during that break lol, so idk how it went afterwards XD,
But downright believe we wouldve nuked it in next few attempts, hopefully try more tnite.
In coeh mages are still top of scrut a lot i see 90+ mil scruts a lot,, someone show me how to record stuffz so i can be a cool kid and post results sometime jkjk

M/w can out s/r and r/m and some others but it can't out dps a good wrd/w and it can out w/s with bleeds and it can't out dps a good r/m only s average r/m and it can't out dps good s/wrd. But whatever bring ad back to 13s buff w/r I gave some suggestions on it on my w/r thread buff r/s gives w/m 100%. I'm done all I got to say

as if w/m needs a buff lmao xD




looks fine to me

That is a pure magical dps party if it was universal you would have a point give 100% back