Runes of Magic US / AU

Is whether you should single pull or group pull really an issue? BP forces you to group pull, HoE doesn't have large groups, and morfan hard, so long as we all get to the next boss before 5 mins are up, either way we're all waiting for CD's (except between B3 and B4, but mostly because healer is stuck in combat and can't rez the people that accidentally got killed by sonic).

Quoted from "ShaWalker"

The best idea until now is to stack (all) music instruments


In addition to above, i think its a good idea to slightly adjust the cast damage formula.

Now its like Flame has a cast time of 3 seconds thus the damage output somewhere in the formula multiplies the damage with this 3 seconds

I rather have it that each second of cast time would be a multiplier factor of 1.3


Thus for example:

• a 3 second flame damage gets multiplied by 3.9
• a 2 second Druid/Rogue earth arrow gets multiplied by 2.6
• a 2 second Warlock Psychic arrow gets multiplied by 2.6

Seems not to break pvp & gives that tiny boost to pve
Besides that it would probably easy to implement by RW with minimal coding



To be honest other ideas in this thread i think they are to much of a risk in game changing/braking/bugging

Also means Snipe would get a extra .9 dmg to it's multiplier... Count me in! aha

But really that idea is also one that would work well, as you said it's just a tiny change to each flame that can add up in a 15second fight for a bit more damage.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Is whether you should single pull or group pull really an issue?

It matters when your group is able to clear some bosses with 3 minute cooldowns.

Quoted from "ShaWalker"

I rather have it that each second of cast time would be a multiplier factor of 1.3

Wouldn't that just be a straight up 30% damage increase to Flame? A passive one at that... think M/Wd.

Quoted from "Rougetopriest"

Quoted from "ShaWalker"

The best idea until now is to stack (all) music instruments


In addition to above, i think its a good idea to slightly adjust the cast damage formula.

Now its like Flame has a cast time of 3 seconds thus the damage output somewhere in the formula multiplies the damage with this 3 seconds

I rather have it that each second of cast time would be a multiplier factor of 1.3


Thus for example:

• a 3 second flame damage gets multiplied by 3.9
• a 2 second Druid/Rogue earth arrow gets multiplied by 2.6
• a 2 second Warlock Psychic arrow gets multiplied by 2.6

Seems not to break pvp & gives that tiny boost to pve
Besides that it would probably easy to implement by RW with minimal coding



To be honest other ideas in this thread i think they are to much of a risk in game changing/braking/bugging :fie:

Also means Snipe would get a extra .9 dmg to it's multiplier... Count me in! :D aha

But really that idea is also one that would work well, as you said it's just a tiny change to each flame that can add up in a 15second fight for a bit more damage.

i might be wrong, but last i checked physical skills with cast times (melee or ranged, and not some weird convoluted elite conversion thing if it exists) do not have cast time modifiers, as the cast time is accounted for in the %DPS and +dam aspects.

Quoted from "Rougetopriest"

Quoted from "Karza"

Quoted from "Magío"

"What Zen said. All these M/W's talking about bad clearing and pulling mobs 1 by 1. Wtf? With W&B being 1m cooldown and Rage Mana and Intensification been 2 minute cool downs you can use it between boss fights no problem. "

Yes mage warrior can be good on single target trash by managing cool downs. -Karza

"Pull whole rooms and Thunderstorm mobs to death. Hits so hard."

Thunderstorm is average at best with cool downs unless you are comparing to warrior/scout or Scout on AOE damage. Warden/warrior and rogue mages literally melt groups of trash in a few seconds which would take constant thunderstorming possibly 30-60 seconds. -Karza

What... that's so bass ackwards. R/M and Wd/W both do less damage in a large group pull scenario... and W/S and S/X do some of the highest group trash mob damage there is, I'd sat M/W would be right underneath them followed or tied with Wd/W and lastly R/M...

Maybe no one knows how to play mage anymore and that's why are are so many complaints.... Who knows

Warrior Warden , Warden Warrior, Rogue Mage melt groups of trash in a mere few seconds WITHOUT using 5 min cooldowns. I think you may be the one that needs to rethink this statement.

The last comment was unnecessary but not unexpected.

Whoever said mage/warrior is comparable trash DPS to wd/w, w/wd, r/m, etc is so wrong, lol, m/w needs to very well manage CD's to be good on trash but, to compare levels of trash dmg capability you would have to put them in the same circumstances in terms of cds or no cds and the r/m would or w/e other previously stated class would easily win lol group pull or not. Mage just has the advantage of being able to hit a few CDs more often then other classes but that allows them to do average DPS, not excel at trash like other classes. Yes it can compare to scout aoe trash dmg, but not w/s, w/s can pretty much kill a whole room of trash with 2 skills and 3 min cds lol, super broken with cooldowns on trash.

Added:

Mage can do significant dmg to contribute to the party on trash, my main point is just that it's not a top trash dmg DPS lol.

M/W Trash Mob DPS in Bone Peak



350k-500k+ ticks with Thunderstorm on 10+ mobs in BP HM.



What's the point of having short cooldowns if you don't use them...

Guys do not go off topic yet again or this will be closed and some will receive vacation too

This post is supposed to be about making mages more viable damage dealers. The fact that magical damage on mage weapons is low compared to physical damage on physical weapons. Regardless of what classes the parties are made up with, mage dps just doesn't compare to other damage dealing classes. You can use solo dps as a base comparison. Guarantee that mage classes are going to have significantly lower dps when equally geared and buffed. Granted, M/W is close, but that's for a very short duration.

Ok, not every mage combo is going to be high DPS. This was understandable back in the day, when we would utilize mages for crowd control. Thunderstorm could be used to take out groups of mobs, within one or two ticks, and not put the mage in harm's way. As previously mentioned, mobs have gotten much stronger than mages so trying to use ts to kill the mobs is a sure way to eat dirt. So now, not only are most mage classes lacking in even a burn phase dps, it's easier to use physical dps classes to take out trash, making mages nearly obsolete for use in any end game instances. This is why the majority of runs consist of physical dps, except for the very few magic class parties. But those parties have a much tougher time doing what physical parties do.


My recommendation would be to simply increase the magical damage on staves. Yeah, it might make M/W stronger, but stronger doesn't mean it's going to be OP. Again, short burst phase.

The hoe staves might change the game for mages.
Also if yall want mages to improve y'all have to buff the base skills like making firewall increasing fire damage make fire ball cause burning effect and when followed by flame cause more damage. Make and electrical rotation. Also energy well can increase magical power etc

GMs. please dont close this thread and kill the forums for the next few weeks lol... this thread has literally been the only thing people "really" have been talking about on the forums, besides this its dead like usual.
There has been lots of pros and cons and im sure a lot of people have learned a lot from it.
OFFTOPIC
But in all seriousness here, im sure im not the only one... that literally just sees the name mohammed1234 and just completely skips that post for the next one, is there a way where you can just block a particular person from responding to a thread IFFFFF you are the thread owner???
Not saying anyone would do that here BUT was just asking for future reasons ofc

EDIT- Blank helped me tyvm sir.

ON TOPIC

Despite AG sensitive responses towards bteams mages he is right that we probably only run coeh 1-2 times a week as we are always running hoe, or pomh trying to get everyone od pieces, ORR gearing up others so we can easily run coeh more often.
If people would stop quitting the game on us thatd be great .
We have cleared bone peak 1st boss and mages were top dps in there as well, attempted third and got to 20% with "useless mage dps", but right after people had to go, and we havent been back inside since, and tbh like magio they did more trash damage than most, but we all know 1st is ez street. w/e

I do agree mages could use some tweaking i never disputed that, i just dont think they are useless as some believe.

Just. Ignore. Him. Or they'll close the thread. He has nothing to say worth anything. I'm pretty sure we've all decided that as the forum community. So just don't even reply. He'll eventually go away or get himself banned.


1) Thunderstorm slows attack speed. So, unless I'm mistaken, it makes mobs hit your tank for less.
2) With how hard I'm hitting up to 15 different mobs it's not rare for me to pull aggro. So being far away gives me a lot of buffer time to react and lightning. Specially with the Thunderstorm's slow.

I still run in when I believe it's safe and Discharge. Or if it's a massive pull, when I believe the tank would benefit the most.

Quoted from "FarmerTom"

I do agree mages could use some tweaking i never disputed that, i just dont think they are useless as some believe.

I think everyone except WK is with you on that.

Question though, somewhat related since we're talking about 10+ trash, do you need a knight tank to hold aggro on so many trash at once? I know knights can hold on to huge amounts of mobs, but can warden tanks? I've been told by warden tanks that they don't have enough AoE's (since potws only hits 3, and the other one has a long CD).

Wardens have 2 aoes they can use, Frantic Briar (12s cd) and Cross Chop (6s cd, linear aoe). They can use warrior general whirlwind also to get intial aggro, but whirlwind does not have any bonus aggro on wd/w.

I'm not entirely sure wd/w can actually survive the mob pulls though. Large groups like that take a long time to down, and some warden/warrior damage reductions are short duration. You'd have to wait for 3min cds for each large mob pull, slowing down the progress. It may be doable though if the group has patience.

While I haven't tried it in bone peak yet, I know from experience that BANISH can be used to prevent chain mob pulls. If you banish a mob before aggro'ing it at all, you won't generate any aggro, thus you can banish the middle monster of a chain, and pull it in two halves instead of a single whole pull.

Quoted from "Magío"

M/W Trash Mob DPS in Bone Peak



350k-500k+ ticks with Thunderstorm on 10+ mobs in BP HM.



What's the point of having short cooldowns if you don't use them...

This doesnt even mean much to me, i can go w/s and pull a group of mobs (cuz BP is mainly complete room pulls) then moon cleave and blasting cyclone and kill all the trash doing 15m dps and like 100m dmg, that doesn't make w/s a top dps class on trash...

Do I agree with a slight buff to Mage? Yes. Is it completely necessary (the way Scout needed the rework it recently got for a VERY looong time)? No.


You guys make it out to be as if Mage is complete garbage, it's not. Mage did suffer a lot recently, I'll give you that. But a lot of it had to do with the fact that we were doing Lv90 HM instance at Lv95, with Lv97 stats available. Physical DPS do crazy damage when they have high critical hit rate, which is balanced with high physical critical hit resistance on bosses compared to the lower magical critical hit resistance. This balance is basically removed when you fight bosses below your current level. Crypt of Eternity HM hasn't been endgame for a long time.


Here are some videos of Mage performance in an actual endgame instance:










I believe the main difference between Magic DPS and Melee DPS is that Magic DPS is generally linear, sometimes with a few random spikes (e.g. Eruption). On the other hand, Melee DPS is less passive with huge spikes on certain skills. This means Mages can't take advantage of Authoritative Deterrence and Silence Seal the same way a melee can (which are the strongest debuffs in the game in my opinion). Most melee can just save one or two of their skills that are the biggest percentage of their total DPS output for that small window of super damage. Warrior: Tactical Attack, Rogue: Wound Attack, Scout: Snipe/Charged Chop/Deadly Poison Bite/Reflected Shot(?), Champion: Elemental Rampage. Some of these might not be correct as I am not very knowledgeable on such classes. This is HUGE when you have almost guaranteed critical hits.


Also if I made mistakes while playing please don't judge. I hadn't played Mage in so long I didn't remember details. I actually had to watch some of my old videos and see what I was doing back then xD. The main reason I quit Mage is because I was tired of the work. M/P, P/S, D/Wd, rebuffing every 10-15 minutes... yeah it got tedious. To be honest, the whole "My DPS isn't worth it anymore because bosses now die in 5 seconds or less" was just the last nail on the coffin for me.


So, for now I believe a good place to begin to make Mage less work and more fun is to add 20% Magical Defense reduction to Tactical Smash and having Essence of Magic, Embrace of the Water Spirit, and Mysterious Grace not stack. That will remove a lot of the extra work a Mage has to do to be able to run with a Melee party while still doing viable damage.

Then, making Guitar and Lute stack will remove the almost forced segregation of the two types of DPS. Kinda messed up that even if you form an all magic party some of the members can be melee magic and you're forced to either buff your casters or your W/M's and/or K/M's. Honestly that's freakin' retarded...


TL ; DR 1) Buffing Mage a bit won't be game-breaking but it's not completely necessary 2) Near perfect critical hit rate made Warrior/Scout look godlike 3) Physical DPS is better set to take advantage of Authoritative Deterrence/Silent Seal 4) M/P, P/S, D/Wd running out and re-buffing is too much tedious work

Quoted from magio

Quoted

So, for now I believe a good place to begin to make Mage less work and more fun is to add 20% Magical Defense reduction to Tactical Smash and having Essence of Magic, Embrace of the Water Spirit, and Mysterious Grace not stack. That will remove a lot of the extra work a Mage has to do to be able to run with a Melee party while still doing viable damage.

won't you still have to to run out to rebuff all the time still?
I guess having the need for 1 alt instead of 3 is still something +1.

Quoted from magio

Quoted

1) Buffing Mage a bit won't be game-breaking but it's not completely necessary 2) Near perfect critical hit rate made Warrior/Scout look godlike 3) Physical DPS is better set to take advantage of Authoritative Deterrence/Silent Seal 4) M/P, P/S, D/Wd running out and re-buffing is too much tedious work

Actually w/s doesn't seem nearly as broken in bone peak as it was in crypt. Mage dps seems fine, but it could use a increase in life quality. could add to the list that wisdom of bravery could be changed so only 1 set of gear is necessary for optimal m/w dps. mages can't really take advantage of ad, but they don't really seem to need it. I guess if you could garanty 1 erruption on ad that would be good enough, as we can see mages don't really need much more then what currently have as far as straight up dps. (maybe something like upon using plasma arrow makes your next flame trigger erruption. can only happen once every 20 seconds).

Quoted from "Magío"

Here are some videos of Mage/Warrior performance in an actual endgame instance

Fixed in bold.

Or, show all other m/* combos to compare..

Quoted from "MODRUNE01"

Quoted from "Magío"

Here are some videos of Mage/Warrior performance in an actual endgame instance

Fixed in bold.

Or, show all other m/* combos to compare..

why? do we make videos comparing r/* combos to r/m? not every X/Y combo has to be good in hm runs, as long as 1 of them is viable for that purpose I don't see where the issue is. At least 1 Mage combo is viable in pve, more then 1 is viable in pvp rest could be fun classes that are only here to enjoy something different kind of like p/w and there wouldn't be anything to complain about.