Mages and Class Balance - Page 9 - Runes of Magic Gameplay Discussions

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Friday, April 1st 2016, 10:00pm

Quoted from "MODRUNE01"

Fixed in bold.

Or, show all other m/* combos to compare..

If you're gonna go that route, you might as well start saying "buff warrior because w/wl is too weak". The game is designed so each class combination works slightly differently -- ofc m/p will do worse than m/w B/C ITS NOT SUPPOSED TO HAVE AS HIGH A BURST.

I don't see all the mages, m/w or otherwise, comparing their dps to that of r/p or w/r, or c/w dps. You're literally comparing the mid (or low tier) mage classes with the highest burst classes of rogue, warden, and warrior. That isn't a fair comparison. You want to compare m/p dps? Go ahead -- compare it to a w/p, or a r/w. Don't try using m/p vs w/s as an excuse to buff mages though.

If the basis for the arguement to improve mages is "we need all this stuff to do equal BURST DAMAGE to classes w,x,y,z", then focus on the mage class that's being used purely for burst damage -- m/w.

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MODRUNE01

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Friday, April 1st 2016, 10:04pm

I'll just refer to the previous post I made instead:
Mages and Class Balance

M (100), P (100), W (100), K (100), S (100), R (100) --> order of previously being active
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Magío

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Friday, April 1st 2016, 10:15pm

Again with that very observant view, and to be honest... absurd argument. Every class has one or two combos that are viable in the current meta as pure damage dealers. Not counting semi-DPS, group buffs like Wd/S and Ch/P... here's a list.

Warrior: Warrior/Warden, Warrior/Scout (this is a very recent addition), Warrior/Mage (magical, barely counts imo)

Champion: Champion/Mage, maybe Champion/Rogue

Mage: Mage/Warrior, Mage/Warden

Warden: Warden/Warrior

Rogue: Rogue/Mage

Scout: Scout/Warden, Scout/Rogue, Scout/Warrior

Warlock: maybe Warlock/Champion

So again, tell me how is Mage, as a primary class, is handicapped much compared to any other class?

Reason we talk mostly about Mage/Warrior is because it's already the staple of Mage/x DPS by being head and shoulders above the rest. Any change across the board will do very little to change that.

Unless I'm mistaken, this thread was opened to have Mage, as a primary class, catch up to the rest of the classes. Mage/Warrior is the way. Do I agree there should be more diversity between all viable classes? Yes. The big problem in balance are elite skills and THAT IS A DISCUSSION FOR ANOTHER THREAD.

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BlankMinded

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Friday, April 1st 2016, 10:32pm

Quoted from "Magío"

The big problem in balance are elite skills

I don't think that's the sole issue when people select classes to bring in raids. It is always worthwhile to consider reblancing elite skills, but one has to keep in mind that "burn or die" isn't the only way to play the game.

There are plenty of situations where it is most definitely easier to burn or die. There are even cases where, due to poor programming, it is almost necessary to do so. But just because a relatively new boss/instance is "hard" doesn't mean it is impossible to find a working strat to kill it. Once this is accomplished, you might consider m/s, since you already know some boss fights are going to be 6min+ and require mobility (bone peak 3rd boss, which has been downed on hard mode without burning many times), or some other currently-unused class combination.

And ultimately, if a boss dies, does it really matter who's at the top of scrut? You're not getting a prize for being first, or getting a penalty for being last. Could some elites use tweaking ? Sure. Should the elites be changed so much that every mage does m/w burst? No. The elites shouldn't be toyed with until people actually try the classes, in instances, and find out what their weak points are. Does m/r need more matk? Does m/s need more attack speed or mdmg? Does s/p need something else? Play the classes, in every situation, not just burn or die, before trying to make suggestions.

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ruisen2000

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Friday, April 1st 2016, 10:41pm

Having the majority of class combos being equal in burst is just not a feasible thing, and I don't think will necessarily be an improvement. I personally don't think even a burst combo should burst 10x better than all the other combos of the same class, but that's a different issue entirely, and one that will have no practical implications outside of fun discussion and idea sharing.

Agreed with Magio that mages are not trash, and agree on the 2 simple suggested fixes.

@pachat93
Having TS replace M/P and P/S will actually remove the need to run out at all, since D/Wd is a common place healer. Even in the rare occasion that we did need it as a buff alt, at least the buff lasts 30 minutes, unlike the 15 mins on M/P and P/S.

Random comment on crit resist - although I'm aware that bosses have a lot more Pcrit resist than Mcrit resist, from my experience, R/M and Wd/W seem to do fairly consistent DPS in HoE most of the time, whereas as mage, my DPS fluctuates hugely every fight depending on whether I crit or not. Kind of a non-issue in longer fights though, so I guess I'll leave it at that.

@Rovie I think the main issue really boils down to these 3 points:
1. Excessive amount of work to play as a M/W (multiple buff alts, 2 sets of gear, rebuffing every 15 minutes)
2. This idea that casters should only run with casters
3. Probably least importantly of the 3, M/W being neither as good at burn as melee, but also worse at sustained compared to most melee burst classes.

Even in a strat fight, burn DPS is still relevant, since you simply can't do that much sustained damage in 10 minutes. Not to mention how long you have to sustain in order to catch up to burst classes, since a burst class during burn is doing some 50 times the damage of non-burn.

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This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "ruisen2000" (Apr 1st 2016, 11:03pm)

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Magío

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Friday, April 1st 2016, 10:51pm

How long ago have you been seeing this? HoE is Lv87. Like I said, being above the boss level is a huuge difference in melee DPS. And if I remember correctly HoE had absurd Mcrit resist. I remember complaining about it.

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SHAYdynasty

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Friday, April 1st 2016, 10:56pm

Quoted from "BlankMinded"

Quoted from "Magío"

The big problem in balance are elite skills

I don't think that's the sole issue when people select classes to bring in raids. It is always worthwhile to consider reblancing elite skills, but one has to keep in mind that "burn or die" isn't the only way to play the game.

There are plenty of situations where it is most definitely easier to burn or die. There are even cases where, due to poor programming, it is almost necessary to do so. But just because a relatively new boss/instance is "hard" doesn't mean it is impossible to find a working strat to kill it. Once this is accomplished, you might consider m/s, since you already know some boss fights are going to be 6min+ and require mobility (bone peak 3rd boss, which has been downed on hard mode without burning many times), or some other currently-unused class combination.

And ultimately, if a boss dies, does it really matter who's at the top of scrut? You're not getting a prize for being first, or getting a penalty for being last. Could some elites use tweaking ? Sure. Should the elites be changed so much that every mage does m/w burst? No. The elites shouldn't be toyed with until people actually try the classes, in instances, and find out what their weak points are. Does m/r need more matk? Does m/s need more attack speed or mdmg? Does s/p need something else? Play the classes, in every situation, not just burn or die, before trying to make suggestions.

Was just about to comment about this. All these class balances are just trying to make every combo to do amazing burst dps, because that just the way the game is going, like you said, burn or die.

But the way bone peak is looking so far, you can go in there with other class combos as long as you have the patience to learn strats.
If bosses had a mechanic implemented (like tosh 1st, VC 1st) where you CANNOT burn bosses, then you can def see more viability in class combos.

R/WD, M/P, Ch/x would be great for boss fights needing survivability and still dps
M/S would be great for ranging a long boss fights and completely avoiding any close range mechanics
R/S, as we've heard for BPH 2nd, would be great at mob control
more healer classes would be wanted, p/k, d/s, p/l

In a game where its burn or die and no strats involved for the past 4 instances or so, with a few exceptions, of course there will be better combos than others at BURN. the combos were meant to do that...you don't see a m/w or a w/s go pvp...

so +1 to blankminded

so if we want to see more viable class combos, lets start with how boss fights are designed rather than trying to make every class combo do 15, 20 mil dps

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This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "SHAYdynasty" (Apr 1st 2016, 11:01pm)

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BlankMinded

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Friday, April 1st 2016, 11:13pm

Well I said elites/balancing was only part of the issue, and the other being the combination of programming (CAN strats be done?) + player mentality (do we want to strat?).

If a w/s does 40m during a burn, and 5m for the reamining 6min, and some m/r with similar gear outputs 20m damage total over the 6-7min fight, then sure, give that combination some love. But this needs to be done on a class-specific basis, because magio's videos demonstrates that m/w doesn't need any help (aside from maybe making tac smash reduce mdef, and prevent 3 matk buffs stacking so they don't have to run outside for alt buffs).

But when's the last time someone brought m/r into bone peak or hoe? Do we know HOW MUCH of an increase it needs? Do we know what it is lacking (raw mdmg, improved skills, more matk ?)....Do we know real numbers to compare, from an actual run, and not the made up 45m/20m comparison I made earlier? How can one ask blindly for improvements without knowing where they stand now.

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ruisen2000

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Friday, April 1st 2016, 11:23pm

@Magio This is really a non-issue I think. Even looking at the older instances, bosses with crit resist has been the norm, rather than the anomaly. Even in the present, instances since Crypt all have respectable crit resist, and you certainly aren't going to out-level bone peak for awhile.

@Rovie
I'd really be interested in a discussion on how each class can be balanced, but is that feasible? Thoughtout most of RoM, the most class balance that we've had is 1-2 viable combos on average per class, and I'm doubtful this will change.

As for M/R, the last time I played it was Ch4, but its esentially on par with the rest of the mage combos (excluding M/W and M/Wd). Like the numerous unused combos out there, it has no "click this button to start doing 50% more DPS" skills that is so characteristic of fotm classes. The only defining characteristics are the numerous DoT's the class has (some tick for 1-2k, some for 10-15k), but mage DoT's in general have negligible effect on total damage output. That and the semi spammable instant, although instant casts do roughly 1/3 the damage of Flame, so the difference between using instants and macroing flame while watching TV is rather trivial.

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This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "ruisen2000" (Apr 1st 2016, 11:31pm)

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BlankMinded

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Friday, April 1st 2016, 11:41pm

We're veering slightly off topic, but as this still applies
to mages, I'll keep it here and consider making a new thread.

Whether classes can be balanced is entirely dependant on your definition of "viable". If your definition of viable is "has the potential to be top of scrut in a 10s fight", then I don't think this is possible without sacrificing class diversity (certainly not something I want to have happen).

Once upon a time, w/r was viable, and m/s was once the highest burst mage. Why? Because certain elites didn't exist, some abilities hadn't been reworked, and we weren't using a million alts to buff up for bursts. As new elites came out, and players started building parties differently (to maximize burst damage), some classes became obsolete. These classes haven't been addressed since, aside from scout, which was in my opnion a lazy way to balance the class (giving scouts a generic boost rather than improving each combination specifically, but it worked regardless).

We'll still have 1-2 combinations for each primary that have the highest burst. And you can still attempt to burst bosses down, I'm not against people using this method to kill things. But in addition to these 1-2 combinations, It should be possile to see others that have more sustained damage, or classes with unique buffs that aren't currently used, in raids more often. For example, that s/p that no one plays now b/c its attack speed buff doesn't work with stim? Give that skill a 1min or 2 minute cooldown instead of the current 5min cd, making s/p viable in 7 min fights since it essentially has battle/assault time and all the goodness of snipe.

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mohammed1234

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Saturday, April 2nd 2016, 2:07am

The point of a game atleast from my perspective is to be able to pick a class you like and want so you can customize it to be the best it can be in every game i played except rom i have been able to make my class i chose beat other classes or rival them. In rom you cant make your class good unless you pick the fotm.
Also that vid on m/w is bogus magio is the best m/w in game atm as far as i can tell and hes been for a while no one can rival him at mage atm especially since bo doesnt play anymore. Also those people in the party arent the top dps they were more like the averages. Also i bet tien went r/s or he must of fell off.
People want to be able to play other classes and do good not just play the class that is required for them to do good. Yall make a point on the part every class is good at something but tbh every class should have the potential to be good in a field if it has the requirement to do so.

Also i disagree with taking away stacking buffs for mages but i agree with the lute and guitar as one. Taking away stacking buffs will hurt mages more especially in ma parties mages dont have as much mdam as melee has pdam also they dont have high % skills like melee so those stacking buffs make up for that in a way imo i say implement tac smash for mdef and pdef and keep stacking buffs.

Also i am not saying taking away the unique qualities from classes but give other classes a chance if rom was like this we wouldnt have lose the people we did.

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Aristatic

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Saturday, April 2nd 2016, 2:43pm

Quoted from "mohammed1234"

Also that vid on m/w is bogus magio is the best m/w in game atm as far as i can tell and hes been for a while no one can rival him at mage atm especially since bo doesnt play anymore. Also those people in the party arent the top dps they were more like the averages. Also i bet tien went r/s or he must of fell off.

Lmao if those guys in the vid are "average" then the rest of the server is garbage, they are probably the best of the people left who still play this game. Shame no one got to see Mysticlight dps, pretty much top scrut all the the time in melee parties in VVV.

Aristatic - r/s/w rerolled secondary and thirdary over 20 times
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Cenre

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Saturday, April 2nd 2016, 4:12pm

lol, keeping buffs stacked and making tac smash remove mdef gg.

Elemental weakness - m/wl - Midnight - sapping arrow - seeds - AND now smash too? Would be ridiculous, all you'd do is make every magic party consist of a k/m running with damage food and smacking boss for insane hits.(Although maybe this makes mytho come back to game xD) I'm all for smash removing mdef, but gotta be something sacrificed elsewhere or it will only be helping k/m.

The vid shows nice mage damage. Would be interesting to see your nukes with HoC weps like Germans do

wk if those dps except magio are average, I'm sure you'd love to join their party teach them how to play their class and go top scrut for them right? Word!

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mohammed1234

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Saturday, April 2nd 2016, 7:28pm

Lol compared to people who used to play like racer meark lok etc they aren't as good as them buy they are good they are 3rd tier magio is 1st you can't compare. Also no one plays k/m on my server for pve can be wrong and it won't only help k/m.
Also if that's the case make it for everybody that one attack buff and dam buff can only be use if you try to use another it will over write it

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "mohammed1234" (Apr 2nd 2016, 7:34pm)

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pachat93

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Saturday, April 2nd 2016, 9:11pm

Would be curious to see what info you are using to back up your assessement of the ppk dpsers. Like really do you have screenshots of scrut comparing them to the ppl in the vid or video where the ppl you are mentionning are actually getting outdps by those or are you simply making things up without any tangible proof to back it up?

As far as fact goes, couldn't get racer nor lokt to run bone peak, but we did get a run with mearkin and on that run he was doing pretty much the same as the ppl on the vid. We did do easier content with racer and lokt before bone peak was released and they were doing pretty similar to those "tier 3 dps".

Point been magio isn't doing good because he's running with lesser geared players. He is doing good because mage simply isn't nearly as bad as ppl are trying to make it look like. You would end up with a similar result no matter what top tier physical dps you put in the group.

The hole point of making ma buffs not stack and making tac debuff mdef is to make magic dps life easier as far as buffing goes. you remove about 20% matt by stopping the buffs to stack and reduces the boss mdef by 20% as a tradoff which should result in no dps increase, but a reduction in the alts required for mages to run efficiently and increase of the time they can go without having to run out for rebuffing.

Tankyhealy P/K 98/98
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ancientgear

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Saturday, April 2nd 2016, 11:39pm

Quoted from "MODRUNE01"

Quoted from "Magío"

Here are some videos of Mage/Warrior performance in an actual endgame instance

Fixed in bold.

Or, show all other m/* combos to compare..

hmmmm...

List of all dps combo's in game

w/r
w/s
w/m
w/p
w/d
w/wd
w/ch
w/wl

wd/w
wd/m
wd/s(buffer)
wd/d
wd/r

r/m
r/s
r/p
r/w
r/k
r/d
r/ch
r/wl

s/r(dps/debuffer)
s/m
s/p
s/d
s/wd
s/w

m/w
m/wd
m/r
m/s
m/ch
m/wl(debuffer)
m/k
m/d(debuffer)
m/p

wl/m(buffer)
wl/ch
wl/r
wl/w
wl/p

There's more combo but I can't bothered to list them all.

Not going to include champs here because imo champs aren't dps, they are RW's attempt at making a "cool" dps/tank. Which in it self is a failed attempt by RW to try and make up for their failure with their last "cool" dps/tank combo, wd/w. Which just ended up being a dps.

Point is, idk if you have been counting or what other kind of MMO you play. But expecting all these combo's to do the exact same dps as each other is like paying for a bus to take you down town and then expecting a space ship ride there...that's just not gone happen. ROM has one of the most, if not the most amount of "classes" or combo's you can play in the entire MMO world. And tbh I am surprised that they managed to barely keep the system in balance for this long, barely. So no, that's not how life works @WK. You can't just pick whatever path you want and be the best, because then every loser on this god forsaken planet would be the "best". If that's how you think life works then you need to read the instruction manual again.

What I do think needs to happen is that all the fotm meta dps combo's need to be on par with each other. And right now out of the top dps combo's wd/w and r/m are literally the all rounder's. Top dps, super good trash dps, super good pvp performance etc. For the fotm combo's to be truly on par with each other the wd/w and r/m either needs to be nerfed at some of the aspects of the game or the other fotm combo's needs to be buffed. I bet w/s and m/w's don't go in siege on their pve dps combo, because if they do they will likely just get slaughtered. m/w is probably the worst pvp mage dps combo there is.

Quoted from "Magío"

Do I agree with a slight buff to Mage? Yes. Is it completely necessary (the way Scout needed the rework it recently got for a VERY looong time)? No.

You guys make it out to be as if Mage is complete garbage, it's not. Mage did suffer a lot recently, I'll give you that. But a lot of it had to do with the fact that we were doing Lv90 HM instance at Lv95, with Lv97 stats available. Physical DPS do crazy damage when they have high critical hit rate, which is balanced with high physical critical hit resistance on bosses compared to the lower magical critical hit resistance. This balance is basically removed when you fight bosses below your current level. Crypt of Eternity HM hasn't been endgame for a long time.

Here are some videos of Mage performance in an actual endgame instance:

I believe the main difference between Magic DPS and Melee DPS is that Magic DPS is generally linear, sometimes with a few random spikes (e.g. Eruption). On the other hand, Melee DPS is less passive with huge spikes on certain skills. This means Mages can't take advantage of Authoritative Deterrence and Silence Seal the same way a melee can (which are the strongest debuffs in the game in my opinion). Most melee can just save one or two of their skills that are the biggest percentage of their total DPS output for that small window of super damage. Warrior: Tactical Attack, Rogue: Wound Attack, Scout: Snipe/Charged Chop/Deadly Poison Bite/Reflected Shot(?), Champion: Elemental Rampage. Some of these might not be correct as I am not very knowledgeable on such classes. This is HUGE when you have almost guaranteed critical hits.

Also if I made mistakes while playing please don't judge. I hadn't played Mage in so long I didn't remember details. I actually had to watch some of my old videos and see what I was doing back then xD. The main reason I quit Mage is because I was tired of the work. M/P, P/S, D/Wd, rebuffing every 10-15 minutes... yeah it got tedious. To be honest, the whole "My DPS isn't worth it anymore because bosses now die in 5 seconds or less" was just the last nail on the coffin for me.

So, for now I believe a good place to begin to make Mage less work and more fun is to add 20% Magical Defense reduction to Tactical Smash and having Essence of Magic, Embrace of the Water Spirit, and Mysterious Grace not stack. That will remove a lot of the extra work a Mage has to do to be able to run with a Melee party while still doing viable damage.

Then, making Guitar and Lute stack will remove the almost forced segregation of the two types of DPS. Kinda messed up that even if you form an all magic party some of the members can be melee magic and you're forced to either buff your casters or your W/M's and/or K/M's. Honestly that's freakin' retarded...

TL ; DR 1) Buffing Mage a bit won't be game-breaking but it's not completely necessary 2) Near perfect critical hit rate made Warrior/Scout look godlike 3) Physical DPS is better set to take advantage of Authoritative Deterrence/Silent Seal 4) M/P, P/S, D/Wd running out and re-buffing is too much tedious work

>.< wtb ibw already so I can leave my exile and run an actual ini, still haven't gone past first boss in coeh. :dash:

I am all for making guitar and lute stack, but if they do do it, than casting speed cap needs to be lowered to like 0.2-0.3s. Idk how the actual algorithm in the game works, but from what I gather, if the casting speed cap wasn't there then even without guitar I should be able to get a casting speed time lower than 0.5s, using crit pot.

Actually now that I think about it, reducing mdef from ts19 or making guitar and lute stack with a lower casting speed cap, either of these things will bridge the tiny gap m/w has with the melee's. I mean come on for the love of god, there are 4 melee dps class in this game and only one caster dps class. And they need to put in so much work to keep up, its as if RW doesn't want you to play mage. But they can't fully nerf it either because a game without some sort of caster magic class is a game that is literally begging to be killed off.

-Failed attempt of trying to put a picture in here cause I don't know how to-

ROM's one and only pure stam/pdef stated tank

REACHED 13.57M PDEF ON 29/09/2016, NO SIGIL, HAIDON, ZODIAC OR RELATIONSHIP BUFF.

Retired until mages are buffed or melee's are nerfed

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mohammed1234

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Sunday, April 3rd 2016, 12:50am

I don't approve any nerfs we had enough wrd/w can tank but people adapted so it can dps ppl have doing this all the time I don't know why ppl keep qq about nerfing. Also I really do not agree with 0.2 or 0.3 cast speed we went over how insane this would be.
Also all the magic buff in the game will take my 170k ma to about 350k without using my own skills so I would say that's more than 20% so doing that trade off won't be worth it the slight buff would just make it so tactics smash give mdef and make it so melee can stack pdam an pa since they don't have that much buffs with pa anyway.

Also @ancient in life ppl should be able to become winners if they work hard if you don't believe that I feel sorry for you.
Also classes like w/r and r/s should be doing good in burn but they aren't and imo those are pure dps Clas just look at the combo. I can understand something like t/p or w/p not doing good in dps but other classes who are meant to be dps should be able to have a chance if they work hard and utilize they class right. As I'm aware there are no handouts in life.
Also I've ran with most of the people in that party to make comparisons and frequently

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "mohammed1234" (Apr 3rd 2016, 12:59am)

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pachat93

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Sunday, April 3rd 2016, 3:16am

Quoted

Soppy i dont really know you i ran with you maybe 3 times and its was short.

Quoted

Also I've ran with most of the people in that party to make comparisons and frequently

Just 2 quotes from you, on different thread... weird how you say one thing then right after tell different as it suits you.
Even if you did run with some of the ppl on the vid would have been in nothing higher than pom hm and a long time ago. As far as I know and Bone peak is on a totaly different level then POM or even COE as far as boss statistics.

if you do the math p/s is 9.6% buff, m/p is a 9.6% buff 1.096*1.096 =1.20 removing the stacking ma buffs make mages not use those 2 buffs since they wont stack with d/wd and the story ends there. why would you put your unbuff ma and your full buff ma into that makes no sense at all.

Thread resume: 1. m/w viable late game -> proven by magio's vid
2. stop m/p, p/s and d/wd from stacking and make tac reduce mdef plz -> make mages easier to play in runs less running in/out
3. make tambo stack with lute and guitar plz-> pretty unanimous
4. not every mage class should do m/w like damage-> general opinion, but still been debated.

Tankyhealy P/K 98/98
Soppy W98/WD98/S98/D98/R98/M98
vids and stuff: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCFh1qLzUKyyZHadIxExA_kw
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mohammed1234

WarriorKing

Posts: 594

Location: Everywhere but here

Occupation: Selfmade

179

Sunday, April 3rd 2016, 3:28am

Make one ma buff and one mdam stack only and give mdef for tac also i never ran with your dps sopp maybe your heal. Also ive ran with ppl in hoe and meark does way more than heim does in there. Also your forgetting r/p which helps alot also theres d/r.
Also im trying to explain how much my ma gett boosted from foods house and magic buffs without 5s and 3 going from 170k to 350 t 370k dont remember been a while. Removing stacking hurts us we need a boost not a stalemate or decrease.
Also mages are meant to do good dps i would like to see m/r do good dps and m/s i feel m/s should revival m/w in a way just thinking of the combo.

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Borella

Master

Posts: 2,951

Location: USA

180

Sunday, April 3rd 2016, 3:29am

Magio - Mages are fine. -Doesn't play mage anymore. Hmm.

Honestly at this point it's unlikely that they will actually do anything. They've never shown class balance to be their specialty. Their "fix" for mages originally was making their dps "spam one skill for 20 seconds".

Personally, I quit for a variety of reasons, but one of the biggest is that I was sick of doing over twice the work only to consistently do less dps than melee who had to do hardly any work at all. Are mages viable? Yes. Are they good? Only if they work 2-3x as hard as the melee they want to match. And then they still probably won't.

Also, there's major classism against mages. Literally the best suggestion for "you want to do better dps" is "run with only mages". That statement is so absurd I can't even begin.

Also WK's posts are giving me a headache so I think Imma stop reading them.

Borella - 100 W/M/S/R/P/K

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This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "Borella" (Apr 3rd 2016, 3:43am)

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