Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "mohammed1234"

Well getting 1 hitted is not fun but it prob would of been better if damage was adjusted on players when using a skill instead of sw gear but hey.

Yeah, player damage reduction would have been much better than introducing honor gear. Honor gear should never have been a thing.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Siege was kinda ruined when siege gear + buff alts became a thing. The difference between a regular person and a siege geared player using K/P and W/P is so big, it makes siege basically just the 1-2 siege geared and buffed players fighting it out while everyone else just walks out to repeatedly get killed, which is probably one of the major reasons why by this point there's such a low attendance rate for siege. Back when everyone was a 2 shot, at least siege was something the whole guild could participate. Now, for alot of people, you hit them for 20k and they hit you for 200k+; its not fun for you and its not fun for them.

Noble, I assume that your 20k to 200k comparison is placing the non sw geared person as the one doing 20k against the sw geared person. This leaves the person in sw gear doing 200k against the one without siege gear.

This imo is completely unbalanced. Siege gear should not only reduce the damage the player receives, but also reduce the damage output of the player wearing it. Let me give a quick example:

I've come across a particular 700k R/M before as well as a 800k M/Wd. The R/M can still combo throw me for 100k+ per tick and the M/Wd can still smack me with Groaning blade for 100k+. My defenses are nothing special (118k pdef / 210kmdef). I hit them with a Fireball for 28k Crit with 151k mattk backing it up. The problem here isn't the damage that I'm doing to them. If they're in pvp gear that is statted for HP/Stam/Def/Mdef, then it's obvious why I would hit them for so little. The problem is that they're able to gain that kind of survivability without making a sufficient enough sacrifice in the damage they deal. The trade-off is completely unbalanced.

Pvp gear causes players to gain critical resistance, but critical hit rate is sacrificed.
Pvp gear causes players to gain damage reduction from other players, but ________________ is sacrificed.

That blank should be filled in with a -% damage dealt to other players. If you wanna be big and bulky in siege, you should be making a equal sacrifice to make that gain just like how crit is sacrificed for critical resistance. This would be the balance that honor gear needs aside from it just being deleted from the game. But people have already spent time and money on their pvp sets, so it's not in GF's best interest to shift+del everyone's pvp gear. I would say that it should be tweaked b/c right now, it's just too powerful and gives those willing to spend money too much of an advantage.

If there is any silver lining to the current pvp gear setup though.... it has cased me to experiment with more of my skills and create new rotations/techniques in an attempt to combat pvp geared players. I can say that I've improved as a pvp'er thanks to this.


I know that this post isn't completely on topic, but seeing as SW gear is related to the balance on siege, I think it qualifies as an acceptable post here.

Quoted from "Rukifellth2792"

My defenses are nothing special (118k pdef / 210kmdef). I hit them with a Fireball for 28k Crit with 151k mattk backing it up. The problem here isn't the damage that I'm doing to them. If they're in pvp gear that is statted for HP/Stam/Def/Mdef, then it's obvious why I would hit them for so little. The problem is that they're able to gain that kind of survivability without making a sufficient enough sacrifice in the damage they deal. The trade-off is completely unbalanced.

You just answered it yourself. They're able to hit you hard because you're made of paper. Basically your problem is the fact that you're not geared for either end of the spectrum so you're mediocre at either role.

Also, last I saw you said you statted Stam/Ma's. You sacrificed a lot of INT to go cheap on your gear. Attribute modifiers actually matter in PvP. 30k extra damage from Attribute Mods is a lot in PvP.

You can only make so many 4% sacrifices here and there before they start adding up...

Quoted from "Rukifellth2792"

That blank should be filled in with a -% damage dealt to other players. If you wanna be big and bulky in siege, you should be making a equal sacrifice to make that gain just like how crit is sacrificed for critical resistance. This would be the balance that honor gear needs aside from it just being deleted from the game. But people have already spent time and money on their pvp sets, so it's not in GF's best interest to shift+del everyone's pvp gear. I would say that it should be tweaked b/c right now, it's just too powerful and gives those willing to spend money too much of an advantage.

PvP gear is already a lot of damage reduction done. You don't get the set bonuses of PvE gear, around 2-3k damage. Depending on the weapon it's 10%+ less damage.

All this not even getting into class combinations, buffs, debuffs, siege building level and the level of the buffs at a certain point in SW, cooldowns... I mean the list can keep going.

Lastly, considering you believe Honor Gear is so OP, if you're a player that has stated several times that doesn't PvE... why did you stat PvE gear for Siege War instead of Honor Gear? lol...

Quoted

This imo is completely unbalanced. Siege gear should not only reduce the damage the player receives, but also reduce the damage output of the player wearing it.

it already does, siege gear has no crit on it and you need to sacrifice pa to get the hp and pdef you need to survive. I believe damage on player is already 50% reduced compare to pve.

The big difference between before and now is that pvp gear is more efficient and more accessible then before. The difference was just as present. someone with full stam/hp, stam/pdef, stam/pa gear with healers behind would be just as dominant as someone in honor gear nowadays. the reason you get hit so hard by players who have so much hp is twofold. first the minimal damage you can do to someone is 1/5th of what you would do to a target with no pef so even with no pa/ma you'll still get hit hard if the weapon and crit damage of the person is good. second the defence values go up way slower then the attack ones. you need to have 5x more defense to minimize the damage taken. this lead to the optimal strategy of been as tanky as possible while maintaining kill threat

another thing that happened to siege compared to before is the popularisation of classes that have high burst and tanky options like k/m.

The overall problem for guild showing up or not is mainly present at highest point slots because V³ is so dominant. It mainly comes from the low server population making for same matchup everyday for the top guilds.

Quoted

PvP gear is already a lot of damage reduction done. You don't get the set bonuses of PvE gear, around 2-3k damage. Depending on the weapon it's 10%+ less damage.

I dont usually agree with Magio, but pretty much what he said here. I do a lot less damage in siege gear compared to PvP gear (in siege gear I hit for around 60% of what I hit for in DPS gear against higher Mdef targets). Base damage is just too high in PvP, especially with classes getting progressively more OP over time from new fotms that constantly get introduced, that even with the damage output being lowered, it doesn't make a difference if you don't have honor gear because there's no difference between being hit for 2 times your HP and being hit for 3 times your HP.


And then of course, you have fotm classes that can pop full CD's and burn anything. a PvE geared scout with all cooldowns can hit people in honor gear for 1 million damage.

People in general complains about high costs of gear, QQ about plussing jewels failures and then everyone gets on the bandwagon of siege and makes a third set of gear just for siege. Siege war gear was Gameforge way of squeezing that little bit of money they could probably get from you. Even tho everyone knows siege war is broken, people just can't keep away from the cost of it. You are playing right into their gameplay, please do ask and tell them solutions, you should see their faces when you do this hahahha

There is no fix to siege because it was always in Beta and the project was abandoned long ago. It is so sad that people still hope for new siege war

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

And then of course, you have fotm classes that can pop full CD's and burn anything. a PvE geared scout with all cooldowns can hit people in honor gear for 1 million damage.

A scout hitting people in honor gear for 1 million damage...I would like to see proof of such a person doing this.

Quoted from "Rukifellth2792"

Here's an idea that will make the game a lot more fun.

1. Increase the player limit from 36 to 72.
2. Instead of guilds being organized by point value, have it be completely random.
3. Instead of one Guild vs 1 Guild. Have the system randomly pair up two guilds against another randomly selected pair.
4. The castle used will be determined by averaging all of the building levels plus the guild level. Higher value will be the castle used.

1. Increasing the player maximum limit would honestly just be inviting more buff alts and gate protectors in siege. I have yet to see a siege where there are 36 actual players in. Maybe there was a few years ago, but that doesn't matter anymore anyways. Not to mention the amount of lag it would cause for the amount of players that would be in.
2. If I recall, people complained about it being random and wanted it changed to what it is now.
3. I admit that would make for a rather interesting siege, but what about guilds that sign up for siege to afk in for badges? Wouldn't really make for a fair siege war if you ask me, but then again there wouldn't really be an effective way to determine whether a guild is going to be contributing anything to the war anyways.
4. Not much to say about this because it seems fair enough.

IMO, siege war is fine the way it is. The only reason it seems unfair is because one guild has a better team in terms of strategy and communication and quite possibly gear. Just having K/M's run in with full cd's (offensive and defensive) is not gonna win you the fights against players who know full well about their strengths and weaknesses. Normally you would think that if your current strategy in siege isn't working you should come up with a different one, but instead it seems people decide to just complain and get upset over it.

Quoted from "Maimed69"

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

And then of course, you have fotm classes that can pop full CD's and burn anything. a PvE geared scout with all cooldowns can hit people in honor gear for 1 million damage.

A scout hitting people in honor gear for 1 million damage...I would like to see proof of such a person doing this.

That being said, whilst 1.4kk hit is impressive, many classes can burn just as well, not just fotm classes, most combos if fullbuffed can nuke down a good pvp player.

Now my 2 cents, keep siege how it is, maybe add some global dmg/heal reduce, and fix some class balance and its fine.

mhm, youtube doesnt play at 5min25 when linked to forum, anyway skip till then.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

And then of course, you have fotm classes that can pop full CD's and burn anything. a PvE geared scout with all cooldowns can hit people in honor gear for 1 million damage.

Two observations.

You would like SW to go back to everyone being a 1 - 2 shot. Even before honor gear, this was not the case. I personally, and I know a lot of other people as well had PVP sets before honor gear that were statted tanky and we were never 1-2 shots.

Secondly, if someone good switched to their PVE set, they should be able to take you down pretty quick because they have taken the risk of becoming 1 shots themselves, seems pretty fair imo.

Quoted from "Cenre"

Quoted from "Maimed69"

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

And then of course, you have fotm classes that can pop full CD's and burn anything. a PvE geared scout with all cooldowns can hit people in honor gear for 1 million damage.

A scout hitting people in honor gear for 1 million damage...I would like to see proof of such a person doing this.

That being said, whilst 1.4kk hit is impressive, many classes can burn just as well, not just fotm classes, most combos if fullbuffed can nuke down a good pvp player.

Now my 2 cents, keep siege how it is, maybe add some global dmg/heal reduce, and fix some class balance and its fine.

mhm, youtube doesnt play at 5min25 when linked to forum, anyway skip till then.

to be fair Wl/Ch is like one of the squishiest melee classes in siege war :< was rolling with around 200k pdef max in the gear that was equipped at 5:25.

-I'd like to see the number increased to 45 can enter a siege war.

-Running into a steel door repeatedly with swords and hammers and no torches (strategy/teamwork) is the issue here, not the match ups (in the 10k vs 45k guild case)

-PvE gear can still work just fine in siege and is actually one of the best stratagies there is, just need the people in PvE gear to actually be good. Take out the 1-2 most important targets unexpectedly before getting 1 shot can turn the tide of a confrontation between guilds in your teams favor quick quickly.

-Take away upgrades in siege, if one team isnt able to get them in 20 minues it's GG, turns what can still be a fun (but losing) siege, into a siege that is zero fun at all.

-I shall ponder this more and annoy Faspee with my thoughts on the matter of correcting siege rather post them here and risk getting a ban like Hiem for being sarcastic.

... Honestly, player base, thats all siege match ups come down too, easier to match up 100 guilds fairly than 10.

Quoted from "Tartax"

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

And then of course, you have fotm classes that can pop full CD's and burn anything. a PvE geared scout with all cooldowns can hit people in honor gear for 1 million damage.

Two observations.

You would like SW to go back to everyone being a 1 - 2 shot. Even before honor gear, this was not the case. I personally, and I know a lot of other people as well had PVP sets before honor gear that were statted tanky and we were never 1-2 shots.

Secondly, if someone good switched to their PVE set, they should be able to take you down pretty quick because they have taken the [risk of becoming 1 shots themselves, seems pretty fair imo.

This is from a midgame siege perspective. I'm assuming there won't be as much of a difference in the top tier, since most people would be decked out geared anyway. Nevertheless, the bulk of the playerbase is still in the mid tier bracket, and in this bracket, when honor gear came out, added that to siege buff alts becoming common, a huge number of people lost interest in siege and stopped attending because now the difference in power was huge.

As for the scout comment, that was just an example to show how overpowered PvP damage is in general as part of my reply to Cloaked. I wasn't trying to argue about whether it was fair or not.

Quoted from "Rougetopriest"

if one team isnt able to get them in 20 minues it's GG, turns what can still be a fun (but losing) siege, into a siege that is zero fun at all.

This is pretty true. A losing siege can quickly snowball to a complete steamroll since the winning team gets alot more merits.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

This is from a midgame siege perspective. I'm assuming there won't be as much of a difference in the top tier, since most people would be decked out geared anyway. Nevertheless, the bulk of the playerbase is still in the mid tier bracket, and in this bracket, when honor gear came out, added that to siege buff alts becoming common, a huge number of people lost interest in siege and stopped attending because now the difference in power was huge.

The difference is more so the pve geared players in the top brackets are simply more skilled than 'most' of the midgame siege brackets, ofc there are exceptions :p But generally their pve gear is better, their game skills, and reflexes are both better, resulting in a much more sucsessful pve geared player. It's less about the bracket and more about the players in them, not saying all midgame siegers are bad, but there is a certainly a difference when facing the average top siege guild player in pve gear, versus the average midsiege guild player in pve gear.

I hop brackets a lot in search for entertaining sieges, they are all fun, and for the most part all the same (gear wise even amoung u and opponents), main difference being the level of skill, or simply experience the players have in siege.

***And of course, the difference of willingness to have siege be a large cost, a player using phoenix's and eggrice will do better than a player whom is not. Way more players in top brackets use those then midbrackets. Noting this to say, not always a difference in players skill leveles, but $$ spent per siege***

I feel like i drifted off point... all that to say, honor gear is less of a factor than you may think, even at midgame brackets. No reason a 50k hp r/m cant burn a 600k hp honor geared player in midbracekt, if it can be done easily in the top brackets, just a few different factors like i mentioned above.

"Here, take my 2 cents... TAKE IT!"

Quoted from "Rougetopriest"

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

This is from a midgame siege perspective. I'm assuming there won't be as much of a difference in the top tier, since most people would be decked out geared anyway. Nevertheless, the bulk of the playerbase is still in the mid tier bracket, and in this bracket, when honor gear came out, added that to siege buff alts becoming common, a huge number of people lost interest in siege and stopped attending because now the difference in power was huge.

The difference is more so the pve geared players in the top brackets are simply more skilled than 'most' of the midgame siege brackets, ofc there are exceptions :p But generally their pve gear is better, their game skills, and reflexes are both better, resulting in a much more sucsessful pve geared player. It's less about the bracket and more about the players in them, not saying all midgame siegers are bad, but there is a certainly a difference when facing the average top siege guild player in pve gear, versus the average midsiege guild player in pve gear.

I hop brackets a lot in search for entertaining sieges, they are all fun, and for the most part all the same (gear wise even amoung u and opponents), main difference being the level of skill, or simply experience the players have in siege.

***And of course, the difference of willingness to have siege be a large cost, a player using phoenix's and eggrice will do better than a player whom is not. Way more players in top brackets use those then midbrackets. Noting this to say, not always a difference in players skill leveles, but $$ spent per siege***

I feel like i drifted off point... all that to say, honor gear is less of a factor than you may think, even at midgame brackets. No reason a 50k hp r/m cant burn a 600k hp honor geared player in midbracekt, if it can be done easily in the top brackets, just a few different factors like i mentioned above.

"Here, take my 2 cents... TAKE IT!"

Probably a lot in gear. Mid tier sieges, a lot of people's PvE gear aren't anywhere near what an endgamer in PvE gear might have (especially due to not being optimally statted or using the most optimal gear pieces (and by this, i don't mean having the newest gear pieces), and they also might not be playing a fotm class, and that reflects alot in damage too. Remember when I tried PvE gear on M/P, and hit you for only 20k crit fireballs when you have W/P and K/P? Between those 2, that gap is so much bigger, they'd have to be extremely skilled to take down someone in PvP gear with what they have, and that just doesn't happen with the large majority of people who siege casually.

If they have an equal chance of killing opponents on an even field, if you expect them to still be able to fight opponents that take 20 hits to kill but kill them in 1 hit, forget it. You'll just get a huge number of people quitting and that is exactly what happened. Otherwise we wouldn't be here talking about the issue.

I mean, you can tell people "well, get better gear, get more skilled", but if the people playing the game needs to try to make the game fun by either emptying their wallet or give up playing casually the way they always have, they leave the game.

Edit: I guess I should stop using the phrase "fotm class", since I guess "viable dps class" is what they're really called now.

i just like how holy aura and fearless makes an easy cap

Holy aura + fearless on a tower with a hidden P/R makes an easy death. Just sayin.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Quoted from "Rougetopriest"
if one team isnt able to get them in 20 minues it's GG, turns what can still be a fun (but losing) siege, into a siege that is zero fun at all.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

This is pretty true. A losing siege can quickly snowball to a complete steamroll since the winning team gets alot more merits.

When you are stuck healing nerds every night, an impossible siege is sometimes a breath of fresh air.

I get to one hit the unfortunate, kill alts, and burn buildings. Its great until they find me and I nerd rage lol