Are the new plussers a bane or a boon?

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Wednesday, June 28th 2017, 8:13am

Before I start, I'd like to ask there to be no discussion about fail/success rate in this thread. Ty.

I've seen a lot of discussion about the new plussers already in game, in teamspeak, and on forums. I realised while talking to someone, that the new plussers could actually be a big boon to mid-gamers (the majority of current players on US servers fall into this category -- moderately geared but unable to clear IBP/vor).

While they are expensive, they instantly provide a power up to your characters, and could potentially make current content more accessible....at least in theory. A group that could just barely do vale might be able to complete it now with +22 weapons and rings. Again, I recognize this might be a costly investment, but there are players who spend money on the game and make high quality gear, while choosing to play with their friends in guilds unable to run IBP (this isn't an insult to any reader, just an acknowledgement of player decision's). The reward is a new avenue of entertainment for the midgamer, and a new influx of gear drops.

Is this just a fantasy? Am I insane? Okay maybe I am crazy, but let's put that aside for now. A plus 22 crafted dagger should be close to a hard mode dagger +20. So in theory, future mid-gamers should be able to rival the weapons of the damage dealers of the pre-+30 endgamers. In theory. They won't do the same damage due to difference in stats, runes, etc. But at the end of the day, the +22 bridges the gap, and suddenly vor and ibp become a lot easier to run.

Some concerns about the new plussers are in regards to future content -- is it going to be scaled for +30 stuff? Will we "need" to upgrade in order to burn the bosses? The simple solution, one which unforutnately resides in Runewaker's hands, is to just make the instance work properly. Corruption had players running vale using crafted daggers. If future content functions correctly, with well balanced bosses (unlike IBP with super high physical damage), the plussing won't be "necessary". Sure +30 weps might make you capable of nuking the bosses, but if things work properly (I know RW doesn't have a good track record here, but one can hope...) then groups with +20 items could surely complete the instance.

I personally feel that the good outweighs the bad. Potentially, more bosses will die in the short run as a result of better gear. I couldn't care less about future content right now, since I have no way to gauge it. If new content isn't working properly, and there aren't any viable strats to it, I don't see how +30s are going to help (since current +20's don't help mid gamers at the moment anyways). Any issues that might result in pvp are also a non-issue since pvp is sort of dead atm. Right now rom has PvE going for it, and it is dying off. Mid-gamers trying out some new content sounds good to me.

What do others think about the influcence of the +30's? Good or bad?

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "BlankMinded" (Jun 28th 2017, 8:27am)

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Heron

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Wednesday, June 28th 2017, 4:43pm

You say that like midgamers had/have access to +20 gears that they could then easily increase to 22 or so, and thus wring out a bit more use from their equipment. Outside of a few handmedowns from the auction house, I do not agree that this is the case.

Why are midgamers midgame in the first place? What's the barrier to entry into endgame? Time and money, imo. If cost weren't an object, they'd already be there. If the midgamers had enough funding to be mostly at +20, theyd have been there ages ago. So, adding a new item which increases gear cost, AND requires the user to first clear another huge cost hurdle (plus 20) before it's even available for use? I don't agree that this helps anyone. This is even before we consider that future content releases will certainly need to account for the higher average gear strength (read: the bosses will be tougher to keep the highest geared players engaged) thereby making it still harder for midgamers to participate in the future.

No one wins this arms race . Not even gameforge, if we consider that the ever-tightening greed is strangling the population, and in the end probably results in less revenue rather than more. :thumbdown:

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BlankMinded

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Wednesday, June 28th 2017, 5:42pm

While I do know some ppl that are unable to ibp but do indeed have +20 gears, I suppose the majority of them do not. However, with the addition of the +20s in item shop, it is a possiblity, and hopefully also becomes a reality.

As for what prevents midgamers from moving up, yes a major factor is time/money.I won't deny that many of them fall into the "casual" gamer category, where life commitments limit their game time. But it isn't the only thing. Before explaining, let me state that I don't expect them to suddenly become super powerful endgame players just because of the new gems in shop.

On Mithras, serenity has some powerful players. While perhaps unable to clear ibp, they should be able to clear Vale, or at least Hall of Earth consistantly. They are unable to reliably clear content like hall of earth or vale because they choose to bring undergeared players, rather than alts, on runs. This is something I can respect them for, but at the same time it holds them back.

I'm unsure if a similar problem exists among other groups, but I'd imagine that not bringing buff alts to raids, or not playing burst classes like scout or warrior, could be another factor holding back groups. As much as I would love the game to be balanced, mages just don't deal the same damage as a warrior/scout does with the same quality of equipment. Druids contribute more to most raids than priests do, k/w contributes more to a burn than any other tank bar c/p , in which case you bring an alt k/w anyways, and classes like m/wl and wl/m are a MUST to burn pretty much anything over level 87 now.Vale does not require burns which is why I hold it in particularly high esteem, and so classes like c/r w/m r/m r/wd k/p tank, can shine there, and should be the focus of less powerful groups.

As for future content, I stated in the first post, that I hope it isn't a straight up burn. Or at least it is possible to burn, but not necessary since mechanics work properly. We had players executing the strat to vale of rites using +16 crafted gear....Assuming the mechanics work, which they probably won't, we "should" be able to execute strategy using +20 gears, rather than +30. So the need to upgrade would, in this case, just be for epeen and/or quality of life (faster runs if you can burn).

As for gameforge's profits....From my perspective, they have not been trying to attract new players for a long time. It seems to me like their goal is just to get as much money from the current, dwindling population, than to invest in anything that would revitalize the game. They have done this for other games in the past, milking the Item shop for all its worth while letting the game slowly die out. The new jewels are a just a money grab for existing players, getting them to spend more before the game meets its end. "Could" they make more money by attracting new players and keeping the game alive for longer? Perhaps. But that also requires more investment on their part, something they might not be interested in. It sucks for those of us that actually like the game because the proverbial end comes ever closer...But alas, we have digressed a bit. I was hoping to hear thoughts about how thenew gems will impact players, not gameforge.

Any other thoughts from people? Do you think +30 gems help out players, mid-game, end-game or otherwise? Or do you have worries about the future?

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Rukifellth2792

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Wednesday, June 28th 2017, 7:29pm

Quoted from "Heron"

You say that like midgamers had/have access to +20 gears that they could then easily increase to 22 or so, and thus wring out a bit more use from their equipment. Outside of a few handmedowns from the auction house, I do not agree that this is the case.

Why are midgamers midgame in the first place? What's the barrier to entry into endgame? Time and money, imo. If cost weren't an object, they'd already be there. If the midgamers had enough funding to be mostly at +20, theyd have been there ages ago. So, adding a new item which increases gear cost, AND requires the user to first clear another huge cost hurdle (plus 20) before it's even available for use? I don't agree that this helps anyone. This is even before we consider that future content releases will certainly need to account for the higher average gear strength (read: the bosses will be tougher to keep the highest geared players engaged) thereby making it still harder for midgamers to participate in the future.

No one wins this arms race . Not even gameforge, if we consider that the ever-tightening greed is strangling the population, and in the end probably results in less revenue rather than more. :thumbdown:

Heron. This post along with your other one here deserves praise and applause for sheer honesty. It really shows that you're still a player first, and a GM second. Thank you.

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FarmerTom

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Wednesday, June 28th 2017, 7:44pm

I miss the days of when this game was +12 max.....imo...

There was gear left and right.... nobody had problems with making gear... people moaned about +12 sometimes took too many jewels.. bla bla same story for years...runs everywhere all the time, after siege war would be absolutely hilarious in world chat etc etc....

But once in a blue moon they would have a perfect jewel sale... where people would stock up....

then when they made gear, they only had to get to +10, use two perfects... and voila.
It was a nice cycle, AH was FULL of gear... so full you had your choice of RT gear, GCH gear, weapons etc...

I guess at that time you could've called me a midgeared player etc etc, but I had access to the best gear in the game if I wanted to pay for it... it was available....
I remember just selling diamonds to buy an ud barkud's chest for 300 mil at the time, I felt so proud when I did buy it lol.
it was easy to stat at the time too, between shells just coming out, stats from mems...(mem farms galore), and AH, everything you needed was there.

Nowadays, so many people are running around with fully statted goh and pomh sets and don't care to upgrade because of the cost...so there is no hand-me-downs so to speak, and add the factor that the drop rate for OD gear is so horrible, no wonder ah is always empty, how can anyone progress, if they don't have anything to progress with?> Crafted ofc only gets you so far..

+16 was doable, but they never ever as long as I remember, cost the amount +20 jewels have costed... ( I could be wrong..)

But imo, when +16 jewels came out, they should've been same price as +12 jewels were before... and +12 prices drop... same with +20 jewels... the highest jewels should be the same price the last content highest plussing jewel was... it shouldn't go up and up and up and up
and fail rate go down down down down

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This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "FarmerTom" (Jun 28th 2017, 9:10pm)

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poisonarmadillo

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Wednesday, June 28th 2017, 9:09pm

regarding Rovie's comment on serenity. We have been bringing alt buffers into instances and it has greatly helped our clearing power. Our problem comes not from lack of party structure, but rather lack of turn out. our DPS are scattered through timezones from US, to Turkey, to AU. when we do have our top dps, I have no doubt we could clear Vor. one major hindrance is that I work on the weekends >.<
We are on the cusp of being able to try endgame content consistently, we just need more players that want to run content. (shameless guild plug) (Serenity is recruiting active players! mail or PM Krayden in game for more info!) ;D (sorry rovie for hijacking)

there are many late gamers that have hardmode weapons and +20 gear outside of vvv and corruption. and I think going up to 22 on the gear would help like you said rovie.

but the midgamers (all crafted gear and weapons) and only most gear is +16 (this is the majority of the server that tries to run) as heron said, these jewels won't help them at all. the sheer $$$ amount to these people to +20 weapons is a game breaker. (I mean the people that call 50m gold rich) even with the weapon jewels in IS. that's still 42mgold per 1 weapon plusser. (THANK YOU FOR FINALLY PUTTING THEM IN IS BTW!!!) I know the free to play players with a lot of gold will be thankfully. cause they can finally get their gear +20. that's a huge help for most. more so than getting to 22 by far.

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ruisen2000

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Wednesday, June 28th 2017, 11:31pm

Quoted from "BlankMinded"

I've seen a lot of discussion about the new plussers already in game, in teamspeak, and on forums. I realised while talking to someone, that the new plussers could actually be a big boon to mid-gamers (the majority of current players on US servers fall into this category -- moderately geared but unable to clear IBP/vor).

While they are expensive, they instantly provide a power up to your characters, and could potentially make current content more accessible....at least in theory. A group that could just barely do vale might be able to complete it now with +22 weapons and rings. Again, I recognize this might be a costly investment, but there are players who spend money on the game and make high quality gear, while choosing to play with their friends in guilds unable to run IBP (this isn't an insult to any reader, just an acknowledgement of player decision's). The reward is a new avenue of entertainment for the midgamer, and a new influx of gear drops.

This relies on the assumption that midgamers will react positively towards them AND be willing to buy them. For the ones who buy diamonds with gold, they will most likely be willing to buy them, whether happily or grudgingly. For those that are actually spending real dollars, I doubt it. The new jewels are not cheap by any means, not just because of the fail rate, but also just the cost of getting from 16-20. The price of getting 1 weapon from 16 to 23 is twice? that of the box price of some AAA MMORPG's out there. That also puts a huge deterrent on returning players (not many, but there are some, and those that return to content running guilds tend to become involved in running content themselves). Of course, there's also the feeling of the slap in the face that will stop people from even considering staying in the game or returning.

Also, the people that are staying at +16 are going to be left behind. I myself stayed at +16 for my weapon because of the cost of +20 weapons, but by the time that I had been running content for awhile I had been considering to use +20's on weapons too just to stay competitive.

Quoted from "BlankMinded"

Some concerns about the new plussers are in regards to future content -- is it going to be scaled for +30 stuff? Will we "need" to upgrade in order to burn the bosses? The simple solution, one which unforutnately resides in Runewaker's hands, is to just make the instance work properly. Corruption had players running vale using crafted daggers. If future content functions correctly, with well balanced bosses (unlike IBP with super high physical damage), the plussing won't be "necessary". Sure +30 weps might make you capable of nuking the bosses, but if things work properly (I know RW doesn't have a good track record here, but one can hope...) then groups with +20 items could surely complete the instance.

I personally think this is more a matter of whether the game will still be around by the time that happens rather then a question of when. History has shown that new content will always eventually be scaled out, its just a matter of time. Obviously, nobody runs with +6 weapons/accs or even +12, and even +16 has become increasingly rare as well as you go to higher content.

I am fairly sure that GF higher ups know that this will upset people. Imo, the fact that they suddenly and swiftly implemented this means one of two things:

1. The current amount of money RoM is bringing in has gone below their internal threshold.
2. They are not expecting RoM to remain afloat for too much longer.

With the amount of people that have upgraded to the IBP weapons and probably have +20'd or close to +20'd them at this point, and the fact that people will be done their other gearing by this point and won't have much else to upgrade, this was pretty much the perfect time to introduce +30's to bring in a large spike in profit from the whales.

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Borella

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Thursday, June 29th 2017, 12:46am

This would maybe make sense if the 16-20's weren't so expensive. It literally took me 4 jewels to go from 19-20.. that's 2400 diamonds or around 30-50 dollars depending on what sale you calculate from. For one plus. Then add the +30's and you're basically looking at around a hundred dollars just to plus one piece of gear that will be outdated in a year.

I'm sure it's not a coincidence that as gear upgrade expectations have gotten more and more out of control that more and more players have quit.

New content will eventually require above +20. It's how RoM has *always* been to expect that to change after, what, 7 years? 8 years? is naive. Just as you can't clear with +12 gear you won't be able to clear without +20 or +25 gear.

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Magío

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Thursday, June 29th 2017, 1:08am

Highly opinionated post incoming...

Quoted from "Heron"

Why are midgamers midgame in the first place? What's the barrier to entry into endgame? Time and money, imo.

Nah. There's people that have been midgame for years. I could start a toon today, receive no help/resources from friends or my already established toon, and be endgame on that new toon before those eternal midgame players break into endgame. I won't be top scrut on my new hypothetical Warrior/Scout, but I'll be doing enough work to merit a place in the raid.

Why? Because I think differently. Sure, now I know what it takes to be an endgamer. Now I know what class combos are viable. I know what statting pattern is viable. I know what gear is viable. I know all of this now. Yet, there was a time when I didn't. What did I do then? I basically stalked endgamers and I asked them questions. inspected their gear. and tried to mimic everything. Being unique, which is something I see quite a lot of midgamers take pride on, doesn't mean you're useful.

This is a list of barriers blocking people from breaking into endgame from most to least, in my opinon:

• Unwillingness to change class combos (e.g. being a R/P or a M/P)
• Trying to make their FIRST set of good gear perfect (e.g. Oranges)
• Unwillingness to change stat pattern (e.g. still using Stamina on a DPS class)
• Skill (there's people that gear and stat right and still can't do well)
• Unwillingness to change rotation
• Money
• Using Time WISELY (to make money)
• Literally not caring about endgame

Most of these reasons are at fault with the players themselves. Your first set of Gear doesn't need oranges, +20'ing, high clean tiering, etc.

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This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Magío" (Jun 29th 2017, 1:14am)

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aardvark3

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Thursday, June 29th 2017, 2:22am

It is about money and nothing else. They have realized that ROM is in a death spiral. With few if any new players joining and ever growing numbers of people quitting. So they want to maximize their profits for the little time left. By going to +30 they are looking for that last big payday before they close the game. They know that a small group of people don't care how much they spend to be the best and are going to milk them until the game dies. It is just the last grab into the pockets of the players before it is over.

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Cike

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Thursday, June 29th 2017, 4:27am

plussing is honestly one of the biggest ways GF/RW has shot themselves in the foot imo. gear mod in general is over the top, but plussing is the worst offender.

new jewels are not good for anybody. they were not good when we got +16s, they were not good when we got +20. they will not be good going further.

my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

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michele19

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Thursday, June 29th 2017, 10:15am

Once again these changes only seem to benefit end gamers. This reminds me of that joke of a pom event, that only a few people could do. Most midgamers do not have plus 20 weapons and cannot afford to pay 599 diamonds or millions of gold for a chance at raising their weapon level. Some midgamers were gung-ho over the new item set skills until they saw the cost to extract them... 300 mil per class is insanity.

But back on topic.

Why hasn't anyone mentioned what this will do to siege. If you think siege is frustrating now, imagine how nerd rage inducing it would be when you are stuck facing guilds with all +30 items. Most people only log on for siege, these jewels are a good way to put the final nail in ROM's coffin.

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BlankMinded

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Thursday, June 29th 2017, 5:50pm

I personally don't feel like these will impact siege too much....The sheer cost of going beyond +22 is far greater than what even end-gamers would want to spend on siege gear. And if someone was instantly killing you before, nothing really changes with an upgraded weapon.

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zidlef

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Friday, June 30th 2017, 5:02pm

Sadly just another quick money grab before the end and that is all those jewels are. Canadians also have an 40% exchange rate to US dollars and why i would not spend a dime for anything in game, it is just pointless. The F2P moto should be removed from advertisement from now on. But then again i doubt there has been any new players in the last year. Just people hanging on to their accounts because they have so much invested in it, i spent my fair share of real money on the game and time. But we never get Gamelforge to listen to us anyways, suits and ties look at how they can get your money, they are not players and GM's work with their hands tied behind their backs. How can they expect to keep the game going with that mentality and keep the community?? They never played the game and have no clue how much it costs to make your gear right. Please sell the servers to a company that cares about the players, please

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LadyDeath68

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Friday, June 30th 2017, 7:41pm

The fact that I agree with Zidlef is making me very unhappy...but he's right. And Holyanarchy, if you've been reading all this, pay a little more attention, this is not benefiting anyone, and end gamers are the most upset about this. I enjoy the heck out of this game, but if, IF, we get to the point where we HAVE to +30, I'm out.

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michele19

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Sunday, July 2nd 2017, 1:53am

Quoted from "LadyDeath68"

The fact that I agree with Zidlef is making me very unhappy...but he's right. And Holyanarchy, if you've been reading all this, pay a little more attention, this is not benefiting anyone, and end gamers are the most upset about this. I enjoy the heck out of this game, but if, IF, we get to the point where we HAVE to +30, I'm out.

It benefits people who already have +20 gear.... usually end gamers. I am not going to lie, I bought 1k worth of + 30 jewels because I already had a +20 dagger. It made it all the way to +22 lol

That being said, I did not buy any additional diamonds and never will again. I still have over 6k on an alt but I won't be buying any more of these fail plussers. This game is no longer worth dumping real life money into.

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Runes of Magic US / AU

Are the new plussers a bane or a boon?

Are the new plussers a bane or a boon?

Quoted from "Heron"

Quoted from "BlankMinded"

Quoted from "BlankMinded"

Quoted from "Heron"

Quoted from "LadyDeath68"

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