Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "TOASWOTL;455902"

In speaking with many of the most powerful mages on the Reni server, I almost always get a different strategy from one to the other about how they have/are statting and gearing for GC/SC normal and hard modes.

Now I know most of us have our dream gear all T6 OD 4 rune slots and the like on Rom Armory, but how are you all planning to gear up for GC and SC since most of us don't have that kind of gold to buy the bunkers/castles needed as of now? (At least I don't)

On Reni there are many pieces that haven't shown their faces on the AH including
Cast Out Staff
Puppet Queen Staff
Juggler Cape
Juggler Earring
Belt of Assembled Parts
Ring of Assembled Parts
Chapenoir's Gown
Chapenoir's Head-dressy thingy
Chapenoir's Boots


What I have so far: (quite skippable not exciting)
All of them in my "dream gear" section. So instead of the Chap set I will use OD phirius, and since too many accessories are missing for both the jugg/assembled set I'm using the vhatos accessories and putting on any int/stam/defense stat I can find on them, competition or higher. I do have the leg guards/hand guards of assembled parts as hands are just mementos (pulled a 114 dura my first shot XD ) and legs are a common drop but i'm still using a crappy raksha belt and memento cape.

Luckily even though all good end game staff drops are being held captive by the "elite" guilds on our server the orange aok prayer still does some really good damage. I was able to T10 +16 mine and that in itself gets me to 1 shot players at 40-50k hp, even though i have crap for stats (6000int) I would reccomend it if you don't already have a raksha that is tiered.


So, what is YOUR plan of attack? How are you going to stack for survivability and intelligence when our stats are not as diverse as other classes (aka there is no int/hp bunker or crimson tier) All discussion welcome

Crimson Spell/Magic, Demon Bunker/Castle, Sell Bunker/Castle

Quoted from "Twisticlez;456551"

Crimson Spell/Magic, Demon Bunker/Castle, Spell Bunker/Castle

yea thats pretty much how i stat as well. every now and then ill trade a demon/spell of castle for a crimson int/def, or a bunker mattk/hp, but otherwise the way that Twisticlez suggests to stat is how i stat as well.


i know nothing about Reni's comings and goings with runs and what not, but im surprised to hear the entire Assembled Parts set has not been shown for open sale yet in the AH or world shout, its fairly "common" i guess u could say to find on Govinda and Artemis, of course im one of those "gotta have it first" kinda people and im not in an "elite" guild, so i paid out the behind to have the whole set but i have it lol.

im eagerly awaiting for someone to start selling the Puppet Queen staff, so far i guess only a select few mages in Valk have it thus far, so hopefully one will become available at a later date for the rest of us lol

I've heard and read many mages stating to go :

Int/Stam and Int/Matk for each Crimson, Bunker, Castle

and I'm assuming the reason for the Int on all stats is the Int = 2 Matk + .3 or .1 added damage on the end?

The .3*Int damage is BONUS damage just tacked on at the end? or is it added to the MDmg of our staff?

I'm really new to the game and trying to understand the math of the damage calculations.

From what a guildmate told me: Stat INT because it's worth more than Matk after hero pots. Well, my simple math doesn't support that. 106 Int * 1.2 OD * 1.2 Hero pot * 2 Matk/Int = 305 Matk + 0.3*152 Int dmg

Where a Matk stat with OD = 265*1.2 = 318 Matk.

Are all the high level mages reaching the Mdef of the bosses? if not, why isn't it better to make sure you have the Matk to do full damage on the bosses before focusing on INT?

I admit my ignorance to the game, but this is how I understand the mechanics of the spell damage.

Thanks to whoever sets me straight.

Quoted from "TOASWOTL;455902"

In speaking with many of the most powerful mages on the Reni server, I almost always get a different strategy from one to the other about how they have/are statting and gearing for GC/SC normal and hard modes.

Now I know most of us have our dream gear all T6 OD 4 rune slots and the like on Rom Armory, but how are you all planning to gear up for GC and SC since most of us don't have that kind of gold to buy the bunkers/castles needed as of now? (At least I don't)

On Reni there are many pieces that haven't shown their faces on the AH including
Cast Out Staff
Puppet Queen Staff
Juggler Cape
Juggler Earring
Belt of Assembled Parts
Ring of Assembled Parts
Chapenoir's Gown
Chapenoir's Head-dressy thingy
Chapenoir's Boots


What I have so far: (quite skippable not exciting)
All of them in my "dream gear" section. So instead of the Chap set I will use OD phirius, and since too many accessories are missing for both the jugg/assembled set I'm using the vhatos accessories and putting on any int/stam/defense stat I can find on them, competition or higher. I do have the leg guards/hand guards of assembled parts as hands are just mementos (pulled a 114 dura my first shot XD ) and legs are a common drop but i'm still using a crappy raksha belt and memento cape.

Luckily even though all good end game staff drops are being held captive by the "elite" guilds on our server the orange aok prayer still does some really good damage. I was able to T10 +16 mine and that in itself gets me to 1 shot players at 40-50k hp, even though i have crap for stats (6000int) I would reccomend it if you don't already have a raksha that is tiered.


So, what is YOUR plan of attack? How are you going to stack for survivability and intelligence when our stats are not as diverse as other classes (aka there is no int/hp bunker or crimson tier) All discussion welcome

Ghostly wand >,> for us mage/rogues

ZZedek
first off you are right on a lot of point you always need enough matt to surpass the mdef on the boss. But the thing is there is all sorts of buffs one can use in order to get there
For example i have 42k matt unbuffed but i can use a housekeeper buff that give me 1050+6% then i have a guild buff that tags on 160 more, my pet that adds 3% + the stats it has and at that point i have about 50k matt and if that is not enough for the boss (and for sc and gc it isnt) i add a food buff of about 1500matt*15% +1500 which gets me to about 60kish

Int/Stam and Int/Matk for each Crimson, Bunker those are pretty much set in stone for all mages that stat for pve b/c the int/matt give u a total boast of 618 matt and the int/stam give u hp and def. which u will need
the prople comes when u stat looking at the castle stats
which u have the int/stam int/matt and the int/ hp
as i said u will have plenty of matt but more is always better so for the last two stat u have a choice between the castle stats i listed or the stam/matt of the bunker
to put it short is all about blance one cannot stat all matt/int and have zero hp at the same time you need to hit hard enough to be a viable dps

o p.s. if u planing to stat for pvp all the stat u want should be either int/stam or int/def


hope that help!

My stat rotation:

Crimson Magic - 106 int/265 ma
Demon of the Bunker - 106 int/265 ma
Crimson Spell - 106 int/106 sta
Spell of the Bunker - 106 int/106 sta
Light of the Bunker - 106 sta/265 ma
Sea of the Bunker - 265ma/689 hp

Runes: Advance 7, Sorcery 7, Potential 8, Block 8/Ferocity 6

Lvl 56 pet, memento food, hero pot, house buffs (overflow/endless)

Best so far imo....this gets u in GC hard with over 105k hp (depending on ur relationship...), 85k ma (with p/s buff), and 16k int.

Using a Puppet Queen +16, t10 btw.

intel/stam - bunker
intel/stam - castle
intel/stam - temple
intel/stam - tomb
intel/stam - crimson

and the last one can be

intel/hp - castle
or
intel/matt - crimson/bunker
or
intel/def - (any)

and for the runes im using

block (making me less squishy!)
potential
advance
sorcery

Quoted from "ryonax;481573"

intel/stam - bunker
intel/stam - castle
intel/stam - temple
intel/stam - tomb
intel/stam - crimson

and the last one can be

intel/hp - castle
or
intel/matt - crimson/bunker
or
intel/def - (any)

and for the runes im using

block (making me less squishy!)
potential
advance
sorcery

Ok, ryonax, you inspired me to get out my calculator and do actual math. I hate math

What I did was look the stat values up on the wiki, and here they are:

Temple: +76 int, +76 stam
Tomb: +86 int, +86 stam
Castle: +96 int, +96 stam
Crimson: +106 int, +106 stam
Bunker: +106 int, +106 stam

Ok, now, I stat differently, and I wanted to compare builds. All those values apply, but I stat the following:

Int/stam bunker, int/ma bunker, int/stam crimson, int/ma crimson, stam/ma bunker, ma/hp bunker or int/ma castle. For the purpose of the math, I assumed I would use ma/hp bunker instead of the int/ma castle.

Values for the stats not in the previous chart are as follows:
Bunker: +106 int, +265 ma
Crimson: +106 int, +265 ma
Bunker: +106 stam, +265 ma
Bunker: +689 hp, +265 ma

Ok, now let's crunch. I assumed that you would use a Crimson/Bunker int/ma stat in your last slot in my calculations.

Assuming no hero pot, you get a total of:
576 int
470 stam
265 ma
which translates to:
1417 ma (576 x 2 + 265)
2350 hp (470 x 5)

Ok, now me:
424 int
318 stam
1060 ma
689 hp
which translates to:
1908 ma (424 x 2 + 1060)
2279 hp (318 x 5 +689)

Ok, so you are getting an extra 152 int, 152 stam and if you adjust for my raw hp plus the stam, you are getting an extra 71 total hp. All assuming you have no hero pot. But I am getting an extra 491 ma.

Now, you will do better with hero pot since all your stuff is int and stam, which get the 20% bonus. My raw ma and raw hp do not.
I'll leave the math out since we have all the numbers now.

You get:
691.2 int
564 stam
1,647.4 ma
2,820 hp

I get:
508.8 int
381.6 stam
2,077 ma
2,597 hp

So, even with hero, I am getting 429.6 more magical attack per piece. You are getting 223 hp more than me.

This is why I stat the way I do. Let's assume we both have all 13 pieces of gear statted this way (and that neither of us has a clean statted weapon or bow). You get 2,899 hp more than me. I get 5,584.8 more ma. That is with a hero pot. Without it, you get 923 more hp than me, and I get an extra 6,383 ma.

Conclusions: Even with a hero pot on, 5.5k more magical attack is a significant amount. Significant enough that I'll keep statting my way. Once you start adding on buffs like Essence of Magic or Embrace of the Water Spirit, ma foods or pots, which all add a percentage of magical attack, I'll do even better. I will be squishier, have less hp and marginally less defense, but I am willing to tier my gear to get some of that hp and defense back.

In a boss fight, I am looking to maximize my burn phase dps. I will be using Flame only for the first 30 seconds of the fight and Flame has no int damage modifier. My damage will improve only as my ma improves until I hit the ma softcap, which is very very high, between 100 and 120k. Also, if I can get my ma high enough, I can boost my damage even higher by using mdamage foods and crit pots instead of ma food and pots. If I used my mage for pvp, I would be more likely to look into statting int heavily because Fireball does have an int modifier, but to be honest, I think you still come out ahead with a heavy ma build.

did you miss the passive +7% int every mage has and that some people in endgame wear aoth mystic set (Varanas Nightmare) which gives an additional +8% int? Seems so to me.

The almost pure Int/Stamina build is not any good, but i think your calculation missed some stuff on your end.

So we'd get:


2*1.07*1.08*1.20*1.20 = 3.328128 matk per int HD with all passive boni and hero
(2 matk(1int) * wisdom * nightmare * hero * high dura )

whereas maattack only gets HD (*1.20)

so:
Int/stam bunker, int/ma bunker, int/stam crimson, int/ma crimson, stam/ma bunker, ma/hp bunker

106I/106S
106I/106S
106I/265M
106I/265M
106S/265M
265M/689LP

(106*4*2*1.07*1.08*1.20*1.20)+(1.20*265*4)=
1411,126272+1272 = 2683,126272 mattack

lets take this build, a lot of the mages in my guild use that:

96 Int / HP Castle
96 Int / MA (96/240) Castle
106 Int / Sta
106 Int / Sta
106 Int / Ma
106 Int / Ma

(616*2*1.07*1.08*1.20*1.20)+(1.20*770)=
2050,126848+924 = 2974,126848

2974,126848-2683,126272=291,0005766= ~291 matk more per item for INT

*14 Items (2H mage non /scout) = 4074 more matk with 6x INT

base values 6x INT:
616 INT
212 STA
770 MATK
624 LP

base values 4x INT 1 STA 1 mA/LP:
424 INT
318 STA
1060 MATK
689 LP

On 14 Items that would result in (with HD/Hero/both with Nightmare included ):

+11777 LP
+3206 PDEF
- 4473 INT bonus on skills with INT modifier (probably - 4473*0.X *matk/mdef factor fixed damage per skill used with INT ...so maybe ~1500dmg loss total)
- 4074 matk



Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong or if any error in maths occured (its late here), but to me it seems you did not calculate everything in that counts ;-) (i hope i did, its late )

"Aoth mystic set (Varanas Nightmare)" Did I miss some big event on clearing Varanas Nightmare?

And for that set to work...Magical Juggling set won't work unless I can wear 2 necklace lol. Essentially comparing +8% int and +8% magical power to +10% magical power, does that +8% int worth +2% magical power?

From few threads back, I remember someone mention soft cap around 100k ish magical attack. Once that number is reached, adding more magical attack is rather a waste. Of course that just speculations and the soft cap will jump again with next instance and tougher boss, but if we talk about the preparation for the future instance, is losing 10k hp and 4k ish def worth it?

Edit: Anyone know whats a good fill in for the extra earring space (For that extra ring we got Ring of Assembled Parts)? Thank ahead.

Any crit mage out there? Got a question for you. How big of difference is 1032 magical crit % wise? Cases like from 2k to 3k, 3k to 4k and 4k to 5k.

Quoted from "YomanROM;482684"

did you miss the passive +7% int every mage has and that some people in endgame wear aoth mystic set (Varanas Nightmare) which gives an additional +8% int? Seems so to me...
...Feel free to correct me if i'm wrong or if any error in maths occured (its late here), but to me it seems you did not calculate everything in that counts ;-) (i hope i did, its late )

Nope, I completely missed the +7% passive bonus o.O And Palenque hasn't cleared VN, so Aoth didn't even occur to me. But sadz has a point, we're going to want juggler's over aoth as soon as we all can get our hot little hands on it anyway. And I am absolutely and positively sure that I should never, ever, ever correct anyone's math

Could u be a doll and rerun those numbers with hero and the misleadingly named Wisdom passive but without VN set? Cause my brain is mush. When my finger goes for the calculator my body revolts lol. You just might convince me to drag out those castle stats I've been sitting on.

Uhm. Varanas Nightmare is a (working, finally ) openworld instance since Patch 3.0.8 (End of January 2011) afaik - i was assuming that it has been cleared on US because complete guides exist for like over a half year and Grafu and Sardo are also cleared on US. So unless im totally mislead here, somebody should be in the possession of the "xxx of Aoth" Sets.

Accessory List would be like this:
Ring#1: Aoth Mysticism Ring
Ring#2: Ring of Assembled Parts
Earring#1: Aoth Mysticism Earring
Earring#2: Earring of Bunker Ghost (or Raksha if youre wearing full Raksha set instead of full assembled parts - the assembled ring stays great though)
Necklace: Aoth Mysticism Necklace



@murphy:

(106*4*2*1.07*1.08*1.20*1.20)+(1.20*265*4)=
(616*2*1.07*1.08*1.20*1.20)+(1.20*770)=
=> just kick *1.08 out.

(106*4*2*1.07*1.20*1.20)+(1.20*265*4)=2578.5984 <- 4x int
(616*2*1.07*1.20*1.20)+(1.20*770)=2822.2656 <- 6x int

>240 diff. per item, a 14 items = 3411,3408 matk difference.

Int/HP is used instead of the same Int/Sta because pdef is considered less useful and /HP gives more raw HP, so ive been told. But both exist, so choose what fits, matk of Int/Hp and Int/Sta is the same

And im still thinking Aoth Set > Juggler. Theres also a cape in VN

mysticism aoth set + Aoth Mysticism Cape
2340 matk
290 crit
290 int
171 sta
50 mdmg
8% int
8% mdmg

complete juggler:
2090 matk
280 crit
270 int
119 sta
270 wis
1200 LP
10% mdmg
442 mprecision

both without anything (normal dura no hero pot)

Ok Yoman, was that math in english? Cause I think my brain broke about halfway through the first calculation. Mind you, I mean my brain is defective, not your math. Could you explain it to me as if I was a 6 year old? Just the conclusions, I trust your calculations.

As far as VN goes, if memory serves me right, one of the top end Reni, Govinda or Artemis guilds cleared it. I don't think anyone in the US is farming it. It hasn't been seriously attempted yet on Palenque. Palenque is seriously attempting to clear GCH, but we haven't got past boss four yet. But we have another try at boss four tentatively scheduled for tonight, so wish us luck

Just to give you a frame of reference, among the US servers, Palenque is the newest and least populated PvE server, we're sort of the red-headed stepchild of US RoM Like the Aussie server is for you guys. Although I think we're far ahead of whatsitcalled, Thalia? And now I am thinking that the Australian server may not even be under Frogster EU... arrgh, I dunno. At any rate, we're behind the rest of the US by a decent margin.

If I want an accessory set other than Vahtos, I'll have to try and farm it myself, and I have a significantly better chance at Juggler than Aoth, and even then, it will be a while before we'll have GCH on farm mode.

theres been a few guilds in the US that have cleared it..starting back at the end of april. one was farming quite a bit.

it's easier now compared to when we were doing it a lot in ch3. more melee's now is only complication really and that just means you spend a few minute longer on assuring correct spacing.

cape skill adds 240mdmg for 20 seconds for mages, or 30sec....cant remember

we got mostly melee/scout aoth pieces...only 1 mage piece dropped

set gives 8% int..not mdmg and the 10% juggler is 10% spell dmg added at the end basically. magic power isnt what most thought, unless it's changed recently. i will check in a sec when i logs in since i kinda dum and forget stuffs

Quoted from "pazuzzu;482840"

theres been a few guilds in the US that have cleared it..starting back at the end of april. one was farming quite a bit.

it's easier now compared to when we were doing it a lot in ch3. more melee's now is only complication really and that just means you spend a few minute longer on assuring correct spacing.

cape skill adds 240mdmg for 20 seconds for mages, or 30sec....cant remember

we got mostly melee/scout aoth pieces...only 1 mage piece dropped

set gives 8% int..not mdmg and the 10% juggler is 10% spell dmg added at the end basically. magic power isnt what most thought, unless it's changed recently. i will check in a sec when i logs in since i kinda dum and forget stuffs

Paz, does the magic power on juggler work the same as on vahtos, ie: (base damage + mattack modifiers) = x +15%? Which is my really rough understanding of how vahtos works.

Do you have full jugglers? If you do, how would you rate it versus vahtos and or mongrel crit accessories? And which other jewelry bits are you using/want to use? And, assuming Core got a wild hair and decided to farm VN, would you consider swapping to Aoth for any reason?

I hate to pick your brain, but you are one of the most OP mages I know who's willing to talk shop.

Class combo makes a difference with accessories also, and I know you'll be speaking from the perspective of a mage/knight, but if you have any pearls of wisdom relative to m/s and m/p I'll take it

I currently take my m/s to instances, but I am really thinking about going back to m/p when I can use the crit from the juggler set.

(and if you're a mediocre m/k I should probably gamequit now in despair lol)

Aoth Set:
it gives 8% Int and 8% Magical Power (which i just short called mdmg because basically thats what it output is in the end just like vathos does with 15% its like <the damage that you deal>*% of magical power bonus) magical power is the same like on a physical flame dragon set "+% damage" it adds %damage to the end of the calculation. I shouldve just written "8%MPower"

But: Juggler is easier to complete if you can farm GC HM, but remember for full setbonus (cape) you have to kill Annelia or buy it.

sidenote: i really like mine on my knight. 8% stamina, 5% aggro

on damage ghost stats there are 2 sorts but that again is different from magical power. ("Magical Damage Points" and "Magical Damage Bonus Points" - the first adds to staff damage the latter to end damage like on Maxims Robe and Elemental Flame Robe ) - so we mean the same, mine might have been a bit confusing.

----

murphy: the conclusion was that statting 6x Int like in the example above results in 3,5-4,5k more matk depending on the accessory set - compared to your statting with 4x Int + Sta/matk and matk/HP - but: you lose 11k HP and a bit pdef.

So to maximize matk and therefore the damage output 6x Int is better if you can still survive enough which should not be a problem in Grafu hm and Sardo but could be in the future (probably only on trash mobs since unless future instances scale like temple hardmode bosses with abnormal physical hits instead of %damage it still works out).

But you could do the following if youre not having Aoth:

96 Int/matk
106 Int/matk
106 Int/matk
106 Int/Sta
106 Int/Sta

106 Sta/matk OR matk/HP (sta/matk would get you ~230 pdef more for 80 life less than matk/hp)

either /matk of Bunker will get you 318 matk. (265*HD)
Int/HP of Castle will get you only more matk if youre having Aoth - otherwise ~20 less. (96 INT *2 matk * HD * Hero * Wisdom = ~296.. with Aoth 319-320.)

Short: matk seems to be "never enough" if your survivability fits in (Heck, if you manage to survive for whatever reason you could probably stat 6x Int/matk if there were 6 good ones ) . You probably will not reach "softcaps" anyway if youre playing GC HM (boss1 has 130k mdef; anything from 130k-390k matk will help,after that increase in damage from matk gets ugly (yes thats 3 times the bosses def in attack value) thats the short story of it, you asked for "no maths" )

Quoted

Aoth Set:
it gives 8% Int and 8% Magical Power

oh, woot...schweet! told ya i kinda dum thanks for the info yoman..i was going to go bug a friend on german eu to fill in what i was guessing at but you saved me the trip =)

Quoted

matk seems to be "never enough"

so true i go m/w for pve and goofing around with a bored p/s and m/p for mattack buffs and everything we could think of (except relgar wine which i dont think has ever been given out on here US side ) + a sigil i went to ~215k mattack with berserk. my flame crits went from 340-350k avg on boss in grafu hm to ~480-495k...i was figuring only a bit more dmg besides the sigil's 20% boost but was quite a bit more.

outcome was only a stupid screenshot, me thinking i should have paid more attention in math classes and more consternation at crit % in boss fights being almost pure luck ><

Quoted

Any crit mage out there? Got a question for you. How big of difference is 1032 magical crit % wise? Cases like from 2k to 3k, 3k to 4k and 4k to 5k.

rough question...i dont think the scale is linear. pop a crit pot and see what you get for an increase, then do it again without your accessories on. low level i gained 9% and all gear on 4%.

i run gc hm every night with a m/s @ ~68% crit, a m/w with vahtos so a lot lower %, and i think i'm at 74.9% (all unbuffed %)..so in burn i just barely cross 80% (with extinguish pot +650 crit). it really seems pretty random from boss to boss who between the 3 of us has the higher crit % rate at the end of each fight. there's diminishing returns in there somewhere so my fail guess is get to >= 65% probably fine. i wrote down % crit rate from boss fights for a few nights at one point and i averaged 32%. non-mages seemed to me to be quite a bit higher but im jaded :p

Quoted

I know you'll be speaking from the perspective of a mage/knight

heh except: i unusually lazy and mostly pvp these days so i just go m/w in pve. (since instead of gearing/modding i can just hit berserk. insta semi-current statting without lifting a finger for 30 seconds!)

j/k...for once i've actually updated modding, and no full juggs set, just full chap set. was going aoth since i have the ring quest almost done (unless it's still bugged) and i'm sooooooo fricken sick of little mage raping bears. we've been working on strats for making 6-man farming vn somewhat painless....because no #$%^ bears there :p

While stacking all those int bonuses, do not forget that some pets can use +5% int skills on top of them. Love your parrots?

I ask the 1k crit difference question because compare vahtos and new +10% set, the difference is about 1k crit, 5k matk and 5k hp ish difference - that is the +10% set tier 7. Which comes down to "5% dmg" vs "1k crit, 5k matk and 5k hp".

@Yoman,
10k hp less - is that same buff level as the int (hero pot + other stuff) or is that a raw value? If it is raw value, we actually looking at 20k+ hp lost here.

For magical attack, I get spoiled by m/p and p/s in the party, so if possible, add those 2 buffs into the calculation. Thanks.