Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;487763"

I bolded this, because I believe it's incorrect.

Priests are functionally back to spamming GH because of the GCD. Before, they would rotate (GH, UH, GH, UH etc) to keep that nasty debuff you get from GH from stacking up. Now, because of the GCD, which takes the place of the one second UH in the rotation, they can choose to spam GH without the stacking effect.

Now, a good priest isn't ever gonna spam GH anyway, and individual use varies, I am sure. But my best priest friend pointed out that because GH is still a priests strongest heal, he was finding himself choosing to use it in sequence much more frequently now, simply because urgent takes too long to be worth using.

Not only did this patch turn mage into an underpowered flame spammer, it made it beneficial for priests to spam GH again, and both of those things were supposedly meant to be fixed by the initial Chap 4 balancing. This patch just undid all that work.

Mage may be a CC class in other games, but it has always been a dps class in RoM. There is no other magical dps class, and dps should not be the sole playground of the melee classes. We asked them to change mages damage calculations so that we could have a rotation like a melee, and they ignored us. And they have already given a multitude of melee classes CC skills. Calling mage a CC class in RoM is just wrong, we can be excellent at CC, but we shouldn't be defined by it. Too many physical dps classes are also outstanding at CC.

That said, what you have to say in that last paragraph is spot on.

Exactly ~ I used to heal differently but now finding GH making much more an appearance than previously.

Why would you throw in such a major change to skill mechanics in "balancing" without changing skills first? If there's more skill balancing to come fine.....but quite honestly I'm not waiting around to find out.
I waited for balancing of my Knight - geeh that was a big let down (2 skills). My patience has run it's course.

70K/67P/61M - how that for choosing all the wrong classes because I had hopes they'd balance them

Quoted from "cjfaces7;487810"

Exactly ~ I used to heal differently but now finding GH making much more an appearance than previously.

Why would you throw in such a major change to skill mechanics in "balancing" without changing skills first? If there's more skill balancing to come fine.....but quite honestly I'm not waiting around to find out.
I waited for balancing of my Knight - geeh that was a big let down (2 skills). My patience has run it's course.

70K/67P/61M - how that for choosing all the wrong classes because I had hopes they'd balance them

Man, the nerfmonster is stalking you

I feel the same way. I was nerfed for forever (mage) and then for one shining moment we were useful, and like an animal trapped in a cage and set free, at the sight of the cage I rebel. You can't make me go back there, you just can't. Waiting on Frogwaker to "balance" things was what I told myself I would do in Chap 3. I'm done waiting.

From effervescent:

Quoted

Which could be fixed by simply making the GCD go off at the beginning of spell casting, as someone else suggested in another thread, instead of gimping the heals we can put out in a certain amount of time.

That would, to a certain extent, fix healers. It would still leave the fast casting combos like p/r out to dry, because casting fast urgents would be penalized by the GCD making the star feature of the combo into a liability.

Melee already gets an extra bonus to %dps from hitting faster, and that extra dps isn't being penalized by the GCD. Inherently, because of the way both magical dps and heals are calculated (fixed flat number vs percent dps or heals) any limit to casting speed like a GCD only targets casters, and we have no defenses against it. We can only increase our %dps and %heals by either hitting harder or hitting faster, unlike melee, which intrinsically boosts both at the same time.

Putting any global cooldowns of any kind on casted skills in RoM penalizes us in mechanic breaking ways. If our damage calculations were different, as they may be in games that use a GCD in casted spells, it might be fine. As damage calculations stand now, it's not OK.

I said this in a thread that got closed by the CM's as soon as the patch came out:

It is way too late in the game to make a fundamental change to the game's mechanics.

They did it without a great deal of thought, and with no notice either.

If they implemented a front-end GCD, some symptoms would be alleviated for some priest combos, but mage dps would still be dead in the water. And scouts rotation issues wouldn't be affected at all, they would still be stuck in shot-spam hell.

The only possible solution is to just remove this GCD completely.

If they need to slow down burns they need to bark up a completely different tree.

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;487818"

From effervescent:
That would, to a certain extent, fix healers. It would still leave the fast casting combos like p/r out to dry, because casting fast urgents would be penalized by the GCD making the star feature of the combo into a liability.

Melee already gets an extra bonus to %dps from hitting faster, and that extra dps isn't being penalized by the GCD. Inherently, because of the way both magical dps and heals are calculated (fixed flat number vs percent dps or heals) any limit to casting speed like a GCD only targets casters, and we have no defenses against it. We can only increase our %dps and %heals by either hitting harder or hitting faster, unlike melee, which intrinsically boosts both at the same time.

Putting any global cooldowns of any kind on casted skills in RoM penalizes us in mechanic breaking ways. If our damage calculations were different, as they may be in games that use a GCD in casted spells, it might be fine. As damage calculations stand now, it's not OK.

I said this in a thread that got closed by the CM's as soon as the patch came out:

It is way too late in the game to make a fundamental change to the game's mechanics.

They did it without a great deal of thought, and with no notice either.

If they implemented a front-end GCD, some symptoms would be alleviated for some priest combos, but mage dps would still be dead in the water. And scouts rotation issues wouldn't be affected at all, they would still be stuck in shot-spam hell.

The only possible solution is to just remove this GCD completely.

If they need to slow down burns they need to bark up a completely different tree.

Yeah, it's not a great scenario either way. Keep the GCD at the end of the cast, a ton of people get screwed. Put the GCD at the beginning of the cast, people still get screwed.

Really, if they wanted to add a GCD to EVERYTHING, they needed to do a hell of a lot of balancing to make up for it--i.e. boosting heals or changing their cast times, making spells other than Flame useful in a burn phase, so you're not stuck with awful DPS if you're not able to spam it twice a second. Much more than these, as other things got screwed too (scouts, every buff in game), but point is, this shouldn't have been something they'd done on a whim.

They basically made a lot of the balancing advances that have been made since chapter 4 hit obsolete. Warriors and rogues didn't get hit very hard, but every other class did (not sure on wardens).

Honestly, the GCD should be removed completely, as it screws up WAY too many things, as they are now. If they want to fix 90% of the skills of the classes they completely gimped, to reflect the new GCD, then that would be a nice compromise. But honestly, there shouldn't be so much -% attack/cast speed in the game if we're not supposed to use it. It's absolutely moronic that this did hardly anything to melee classes, yet casters got completely gimped from it, and everyone that had a Curse rune or had a fast casting combo (P/R, for example) gets screwed. If they made all caster skills and heals do % damage instead of just a flat number, maybe we wouldn't be affected as much. Mage spells still need a serious work-over, due to the fact that Flame is the only viable spell to use during a burn, but at least -% cast speed buffs would still work well.

If this was their way of reducing the boss burn mechanic, they went about it wrong. Other classes can still burn. Mages, and to some extent scouts, cannot. And don't get me started on how much slower heal-statted priests kill now...

Did anyone mentioned that the GH Manacosts are Higher now?

With 70k Mana I can stack that Debuff up to 3 or 4, before "Priestnerf" it was 6.

Quoted from "Abaishtona;485988"

...bad side is that I'm putting healer aside for now until they fix. The end.

The thing that has kept me coming back, but only gotten me close to spending money on this game, has been that I've been having too much fun below level 25 trying different combos out. Every time I get close to finally buying a mount, I end up re-rolling. They had to do this while I was finally enjoying an M/P. Oh well. Time for a W/R again? (grin)

Quoted from "sabrione;487602"

druids have no GCD on two of their heals, which makes those heals spammable.

Oh, you mean the Druid general Mother Earth's fountain and the d/w elite healing wind, which both have cooldowns of 4 seconds and do about 1/3 the amount of healing GH does? Very spammable. Very spammable indeed. (Warning, may contain sarcasm)

Quoted

Priests are now there for buffs.

Unless they are skilled enough to do their job despite the gcd and keep themselves and their party alive. GCD has made it harder for healers. It has not crippled them. The better ones will continue healing, the others will come here and complain.

Quoted from "Zarkuwhatz;487866"

The thing that has kept me coming back, but only gotten me close to spending money on this game, has been that I've been having too much fun below level 25 trying different combos out. Every time I get close to finally buying a mount, I end up re-rolling. They had to do this while I was finally enjoying an M/P. Oh well. Time for a W/R again? (grin)

Stop grinning in every damn post you make. Its creepy.

I can heal, and I have healed for three years. But I will sit here, complain, and attempt to heal some more. 'S called multi-tasking.

Quoted from "Ravesden;487930"

Stop grinning in every damn post you make. Its creepy.

and there's my sig. (grin)

Since when is spamming GH make you a good healer Rave? Im more upset with priests not being able to weave in another spell instead of GH unless ofcourse you are P/S. The GCD as mentioned before has brought about the return of GH spam and throws out the "rotation" a priest had to avoid the debuff. The debuff that was suppose to end GH spam is now useless because of the GCD so they nerfed a nerf.....interesting.

Mandrakes ,who is in your guild Rave, says its more annoyance than back breaking and i agree that its not crippling, however i dont see a point to it being implemented. Can you tell me why we need a GCD Rave? I dont see a reason to make buffs, foods, heals, Flame, etc....to take longer. If it was to stop the burn phase I can honestly say they failed. Maybe they will put an item in the Diamond Shop to remove GCD on one skill and costs 1000 diamonds. Maybe they think it will be a good gold sink :p

Quoted from "AxeEffect;487987"

Since when is spamming GH make you a good healer Rave?

Wait, what? You must have misunderstood me, because I never said this, nor do I think spamming GH makes anyone a good healer. Some people prefer it, I think it sets the standard too low.

Quoted

Im more upset with priests not being able to weave in another spell instead of GH unless ofcourse you are P/S.

Ok, we have common ground here.

Quoted

Mandrakes ,who is in your guild Rave

Thank you for reminding me, I almost forgot

Quoted

i agree that its not crippling, however i dont see a point to it being implemented. Can you tell me why we need a GCD Rave? I dont see a reason to make buffs, foods, heals, Flame, etc....to take longer.

I think we hold some common ground, so Ill explain myself:

I'm actually in favor of a gcd. I believe its needed. Not to prevent Burns, or to nerf a class, but because it raises the bar and reveals who can get past it with skill, and who can't. Am I in favor of HOW they implemented it? Hell no. Wtf is a gcd doing at the end of a CAST? Someone suggested implementing the gcd at the beginning of the cast. I think its a start. My belief? Keep the gcd, but except casted spells/skills from it. *or* Raise the speed cap to .75. It'll hurt mage dps still, but not as bad as it is with their 1.5 cap currently. AND theyll be hitting .25 faster than their physical dps counterparts. Flame/Urgents under 1 second?They used pots, runes, instruments, food to get there. Let them benefit.

As it is the game is too fast. Not saying I can't keep up, what I'm saying is that PvP is too fast, boss fights yes, but I like a burn on some. What I don't like is the boss going down before it can get a single skill off. That just isn't fun.

PvP: I'd like a better opportunity to react to those 3-5 simultaneous arrows coming at me. Flame/Fireball followups? I'd gladly take that full 1 second between the two.

Quoted

Maybe they will put an item in the Diamond Shop to remove GCD on one skill and costs 1000 diamonds. Maybe they think it will be a good gold sink :p

You know what that would do to dia prices right? I'm poor enough as it is.

wooot finally some progresss being made i think i ill stop trolling now

and wow really how did we not get any post deleted outta all the things i said lolololol

but i say GCD i dont see it as slowing down burn fight since dps do the burning and almost all dps skills had gcd anyways.

i see it as a overall balance to make everythign fair although maybe they did not see the extent of th effects it had or maybe just put it in to see what effects it had or maybe they knew about it and thought well healers can still heal good enough?


IF there is a GCD and a mages are suspose to single target dps without spamming one buttong then instead of cast times maybe they should be turned into cooldowns? i do not see anyway to have a cast and a GCD and not have to spam 1 skill on a burn unless they make mages % based like melle in which case increasing casting speeds would increase damage as well as atk faster and with cooldowns they cant just spam 1 button.

as for changing damage calcs its never too late in the game to do it they actually changed melle damage calcs in ch4. so y not change mage damage calc/priest healing calcs?

Quoted from "Ravesden;488095"

Wait, what? You must have misunderstood me, because I never said this, nor do I think spamming GH makes anyone a good healer. Some people prefer it, I think it sets the standard too low.


Ok, we have common ground here.



Thank you for reminding me, I almost forgot


I think we hold some common ground, so Ill explain myself:

I'm actually in favor of a gcd. I believe its needed. Not to prevent Burns, or to nerf a class, but because it raises the bar and reveals who can get past it with skill, and who can't. Am I in favor of HOW they implemented it? Hell no. Wtf is a gcd doing at the end of a CAST? Someone suggested implementing the gcd at the beginning of the cast. I think its a start. My belief? Keep the gcd, but except casted spells/skills from it. *or* Raise the speed cap to .75. It'll hurt mage dps still, but not as bad as it is with their 1.5 cap currently. AND theyll be hitting .25 faster than their physical dps counterparts. Flame/Urgents under 1 second?They used pots, runes, instruments, food to get there. Let them benefit.

As it is the game is too fast. Not saying I can't keep up, what I'm saying is that PvP is too fast, boss fights yes, but I like a burn on some. What I don't like is the boss going down before it can get a single skill off. That just isn't fun.

PvP: I'd like a better opportunity to react to those 3-5 simultaneous arrows coming at me. Flame/Fireball followups? I'd gladly take that full 1 second between the two.

You know what that would do to dia prices right? I'm poor enough as it is.

If they implemented your .75 sec CD, it might just work. They could add in a tiny damage buff to Elemental Catalysis, say raise it from 20 percent to 30 percent, and we'd be pretty much good to go. They'd have to test it thoroughly to make sure, but that's the absolute most reasonable suggestion that I have yet seen.

However, I still think they need to scrap this and start over. I like a good boss burn as much as the next person, but I do also like a challenge, and we can all agree that PvP damage is borked all to hell.

They need to treat PvP like the seperate beastie that it is. Borking PvE to fix PvP is a baaaaaaaad idea.

A crit debuff in sw would be a smart cheap way to go. No more crit heals for 50k, no more 120k crit lowblows, no more 150k crit flames. Instant slowdown.

On bosses, maybe stop trying to look at white dps as the problem and nerf crit instead. Less crit = less burn.

I dunno though, everyone would rage when we've all spent so much to increase our crit rates. Maybe just increase bosses crit resistances.

I swear, this whole problem could have been avoided if they hadn't implemented the +16 weapon jewels. Those damned things broke the economy and I think they're at the root of this "too much burn" issue the devs see that few of us in the US see.

I agree that if this was for the sake of PvP then they are going about it all wrong. Also Rave I just wanted to make sure that you knew who I was talking about :p.

Like I said before they need to re-work skills in order to even think about this GCD on all skills. I think many people would take it a bit better if there was more skills available to use rather than just a few. The more skills a player has the more individual skill it takes to make the class effective. Emo's solution would require more skills to be usable so then they would have to be fixed.

@Rave I believe that with the GCD in affect as is that it encourages a healer to spam GH instead of relying on skill. Even with GCD at the beginning of heals wouldnt that still debunk the debuff for GH? I hate relying on one spell which is why I went GH, CS, UH or Regen, GH.....

Crit rate might have something to do with it, but saying this is a step in balancing ALL classes is wrong. Once PvP actually works we will see how bad IB still hurts and that it is still spammable. Fix the skills themselves or damage calcs rather than adding an extra second to all skills for no reason that I can see PvE wise.

Quoted from "AxeEffect;488185"

Even with GCD at the beginning of heals wouldnt that still debunk the debuff for GH? I hate relying on one spell which is why I went GH, CS, UH or Regen, GH.....

Only clueless priests used GH spam after they finally added the debuff nerf in. Having a GCD at the beginning of the cast is no different than it used to be. It would hurt UH still, because it's quite easy to get UH down to ~.6 seconds, especially for P/R, so it would reduce their once-complete spammability of it...which, sadly, is why a lot of people go P/R, since several of their DPS elites are crap.

I used GH, Regen, and UH regularly. I never healed on my P/S side, as I only used it for farming, but I certainly didn't just use GH. I never liked it when parties forced me to spam GH nonstop before the nerf, so I appreciated the fact that I didn't have to anymore.

As it is, this GCD at the end of cast really makes some skills not worth using at all...which only further hurts priests, since we don't have that much variety to begin with.

Thing is though, if they added the GCD to reduce boss burn...they failed completely when it comes to rogues or warriors (not sure about wardens). Scouts and mages both took a pretty heavy hit to damage, yet rogues and warriors were hardly affected at all. If this GCD crap has to stay, it has to be even for all classes--not just screw half over and leave the rest to their OP boss-burn glory.

just because i'm tired of it: emoguy. seriously, go roll a mage and gear to end game. till then, your knight self can keep quiet. you aren't a constructive part of this, you are being a troll's troll. the kind that's only irritating. mages/priests aren't angry with it because it made them not top DPS. they're angry with it because it removed them from being valuable instance running classes. i saw posted that there are guilds (i heard ragnarak, but i have no confirmation) DOES NOT take people into runs unless they're absolute beasts. which mages were able to 'keep up appearances' till now, they are no longer going to go to those runs. which is bad.

there have been suggestions, i've put one in every one of these threads that was up on day two after i tried it out myself. until you are experiencing this situation from the perspective of one of the people hit incredibly hard by this, your commentary is not welcome.

mages are no longer 'CC' as there's no need to CC anything anymore. you bring in a true need for CC, we'll talk. when there's a trash mob in every pull that hits the tank for 150k while he's got 400k defense, and is immune to physical damage, we'll say there's a need for 'CC'. when there's a boss that immunes to physical damage every 5 seconds and needs to be slowed/silenced by a caster class, we'll say there's a need for 'CC'. until that point, mages are DPS. get over your old notions.

that aside: that looks like a good combination. tweak the coefficients, lower the GCD a smidge. that would benefit everyone so far affected by it. but i still believe that they just need to stare at their computer screen, and realize that everyone with damage spells and can stat for that type of damage should all be in about the same area for DPS.

I'm only posting because I hope the more people who complain the better. It's been so bad that I've bothered to log onto forums for the first time to complain. I'm a mage/priest. It has hurt me so much on BOTH sides. I'm a very good offhealer, but part of that is that I can cast my heals quickly and compensate for small parties where we don't always get the chance to have a priest. No more.

This cooldown is a HUGE problem. Before boss fights, I pop eight cooldowns, only two of which are more than 20 seconds. That's eight seconds right there.... how am I supposed to attack?

On top of that, this is combined with the addition of a second HUGE problem. The line of sight crap is continually telling me that there is an obstacle between my target and me. So while I'm getting hit over and over, I can't even target the thing. Thank goodness I have AOEs....but they aren't nearly as strong. This isn't fair. It's not fun. What's the point of having skills when you can't use them? I'm supposed to be able to fight RANGED -> half the time, I need to be standing on top of the guardian now to kill him. My priest has always been weak, but not having an AOE AND having her heals nerfed, it's practically impossible to do anything on my own.

Very disappointed. Please, please fix this soon. I have no idea why on earth this would be a benefit and it has had disastrous effects on my mage/priest.

Quoted from "AxeEffect;488185"

I agree that if this was for the sake of PvP then they are going about it all wrong. Also Rave I just wanted to make sure that you knew who I was talking about :p.

Like I said before they need to re-work skills in order to even think about this GCD on all skills. I think many people would take it a bit better if there was more skills available to use rather than just a few. The more skills a player has the more individual skill it takes to make the class effective. Emo's solution would require more skills to be usable so then they would have to be fixed.

@Rave I believe that with the GCD in affect as is that it encourages a healer to spam GH instead of relying on skill. Even with GCD at the beginning of heals wouldnt that still debunk the debuff for GH? I hate relying on one spell which is why I went GH, CS, UH or Regen, GH.....

Crit rate might have something to do with it, but saying this is a step in balancing ALL classes is wrong. Once PvP actually works we will see how bad IB still hurts and that it is still spammable. Fix the skills themselves or damage calcs rather than adding an extra second to all skills for no reason that I can see PvE wise.

So I'm guessing I know and have talked to you a bit in-game correct? Providing your character name would help with the "This person sounds familiar but can't pinpoint who it is" feeling I'm getting.

Quoted from "Ravesden;488274"

So I'm guessing I know and have talked to you a bit in-game correct? Providing your character name would help with the "This person sounds familiar but can't pinpoint who it is" feeling I'm getting.

Maybe just a passing glance or something like that. Ayriarose/Dusaro of Prodigy Guild on Reni. Dont think I've ever ran with you or anything just probs crossed paths and peeked at your gear.

@deus....why? why did you do it? it seemed he was back in his cage and now you poked him with a stick.

Scout's rotation Post chapter 3 used to include
Vampire Arrow
Combo shot
Thorn arrow
Hidden peril
Reflected shot
Shoot
Autoshot
Scout's rotation chapter 3 was
comboshot
(if there's an s/r, vampire arrow)
autoshot
shoot spam
Our rotation now post chapter 4
comboshot
(if there's an s/r, vampire arrow)
autoshot
shoot spam