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warden/scout endgame tank?

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ragnarok2010

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1

Thursday, January 19th 2012, 9:59pm

warden/scout endgame tank?

so after doing some calculations and messing around with different statting ideas ive come to the conclusion that if i statted all chain gear with tanking stats, with tanking accesories and along with the def buff i should have enough def to tank on wdn/s with out much of an issue while also providing a respectable amount of dps.

has anyone else had success doing this?
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YomanROM

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Friday, January 20th 2012, 12:22am

on warden/scout ? i dont think so.

but that values did you calculate that you would reach?

sleepypill

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Friday, January 20th 2012, 1:56am

You may be able to survive, but can you hold agro? That is what it really is going to come down. What are you going to do when that m/w does her burst damage and you can't hold against it because you stated to tank and not dps? Do you have a taunt to pull him back to you? You are going to lose a lot of dps when you stat as tank with chain.

Chrion dps doesn't count because Chiron will likely pull the boss from you and will explode and be useless. Since wd/s is your toy though, do as you want and let us know the results.

ragnarok2010

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Friday, January 20th 2012, 3:29am

well while ill be statting like a knight the entire stat setup will not be straight knight as a wdn/s is not a straight tank.

i realize my explanitation in the opening post may have been vague now but as i go i will let everyone here know what the results were
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quentinludwigs

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Friday, January 20th 2012, 8:36am

I was all over this idea a few months ago when warden was revamped. I statted chain gear with def stats. All OD trap set, etc. I used 2 hatred VII runes, aggro pots, and a +16 T9 Hero's Child axe. Unfortunately even the lowest dps person in any party would steal aggro from me. Finally I gave up and swapped to my wd/w and have no aggro issues now.

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Friday, January 20th 2012, 4:42pm

i still see survivability issues ... atleast if you aim for anything that you havent outleveled.

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7

Friday, January 20th 2012, 4:59pm

Game is designed so that you can't get on one aspect (tanking) without giving up on another one (DPS).

YomanROM

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Saturday, January 21st 2012, 6:19am

ok, short version? just forget it.

a WD/W (you know, the one with the tank buffs) with both 220k HP and Pdef fully buffed was able to tank ToSH HM in EU - but that guy is usually Scout/Warden and except 6 tank parts everything else is heavy endgame t7+16 Scout Stuff with quite a lot patk and Dex. And even then it took 4 heals and a full buff list (he had 40+ buffs on himself so some even got bugged away...) to do that. Not to mention his group consists of 11 other ppl who are half-to-full tosh geared. And we're not talking about your aggro here, because Wd/S has NO skills that increase aggro.

The point in this example is: You will neither reach anywhere that pdef nor that life values on chain equipment without having knight-like buffs. Damage-mitigation? unknown to Wd/S

Go build your char, then pull a whole group of trash in ToSH hard and actually TANK them and survive what even kills full knights in a second if done a little bit wrong.

Edit:
Btw, the same scales down for a bit lower equipment and accordingly a bit lower instances.

camagic

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Tuesday, January 24th 2012, 11:35am

fact is the aggro issue. there is no real way for a wd/s to hold the aggro, pick up the mob, or turn the group from the dps. It is a constant battle to just keep aggro over the centaur, and often a losing one.
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Rossbot

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Tuesday, January 24th 2012, 4:38pm

Just to clarify, Tanking does not just mean "Surviving". Tanking involves holding aggro on groups of mobs, single mobs, and bosses +adds. It's more about keeping your group from having to take damage from mobs/bosses.

Wd/S can do that with Hatred runes in both of their weapons, if statted properly, but it's just not the way Wd/S is meant to be played and it will be reflected in its performance.

andreasels

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11

Friday, March 16th 2012, 11:21pm

Ok, I tried it today and it worked better than expected...except for 1 uncontrolled overpull and a wipe cause of it, it went very smooth. Every boss first try and on Trash the Aggro was also fine with Frantic Briar ^^

Even completely without Gingerman pot....and my phoenix from 2nd boss triggered on way to 6th





Except Accessory, Wings, Cape and Belt I wear warrior gear with 4x Str/P.att, 1x Str/HP, 1x Str/Stam....which is not really optimum setup for a Warden even xD
Druffbaum W/Wd/S and Baumschmuser D/S

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andreasels

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12

Saturday, March 17th 2012, 12:43am

We went right again and I recorded Scrut over whole instance...."little bit" crazy dmg for a tank imo xD

Damage Out:



Damage In:



Run was a bit more than one hour (quite fast for us actually)
Druffbaum W/Wd/S and Baumschmuser D/S

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Galenwaithien

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13

Tuesday, March 20th 2012, 11:08pm

What are your stats only self buffed? Wd/s tank mode

Eldebil

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Sunday, April 15th 2012, 8:59am

I tank GCHM and Tosh norm on my WD/S and usually am one of the top dps in party. So aggro is never an issue, you just have to be pretty smart with trash mob pulls. I can't tank TOSH hard on my wd/s yet not quiet enough pdef yet. If you enjoy tanking on WD/S there is no problem tanking end game on the class. Only thing you have to worry about is mobs getting a stun on you before your 2 second cast on frantic briar goes off, I usually send in chiron to take the initial stun while i run in and frantic briar.

camagic

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Tuesday, April 17th 2012, 1:51pm

Quoted from "Eldebil;525042"

I tank GCHM and Tosh norm on my WD/S and usually am one of the top dps in party. So aggro is never an issue, you just have to be pretty smart with trash mob pulls. I can't tank TOSH hard on my wd/s yet not quiet enough pdef yet. If you enjoy tanking on WD/S there is no problem tanking end game on the class. Only thing you have to worry about is mobs getting a stun on you before your 2 second cast on frantic briar goes off, I usually send in chiron to take the initial stun while i run in and frantic briar.



1)One of the top dps in party, so aggro is never an issue...
2)look at the scrutinizer on the right side of screen in post 12 and compare the average hit values. The others where not going at all full on.
3)follow this guys example and end up at your local library.

/facepalm

wd/s is not, never was, and never will be a tank.
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andreasels

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Tuesday, April 17th 2012, 2:39pm

Quoted from "camagic;525492"

1)One of the top dps in party, so aggro is never an issue...
2)look at the scrutinizer on the right side of screen in post 12 and compare the average hit values. The others where not going at all full on.
3)follow this guys example and end up at your local library.

/facepalm

wd/s is not, never was, and never will be a tank.


1.) Single Target Aggro was quite close actually, since Wd/S itself does low ST dps (even with 2x Hatred X)

2.) Ehm, ofc everyone went full dps, just Wd/S has insane dps with Frantic Briar (even in half tank gear). Note that this is the damage done over whole instance and not all people shown in scrutinizer were in my party over the whole run (sometimes switched to 2nd group or entered later, don't remember)

3.) What is this supposed to mean?

I showed that Wd/S can be a tank, even in highest instances with not optimum statsetup. Ofc other combos are more efficient in tanking if you can't farm the instance already, but it doesn't mean a Wd/S can't be a tank.

If someone wants to play Wd/S as tank and his guild lets him I see no reason not to do it.
Druffbaum W/Wd/S and Baumschmuser D/S

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camagic

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Tuesday, April 17th 2012, 3:47pm

first off, it is great that you are doing tosh hardmode. good job.

the most hits are from briar repel, which is an excellent aggro generator for all wardens.
your avg hits are 5th, your crits are 3rd on the scrut of your party. your avg frantic brair puts you at 3rd.
your overall damage is top. This is because it is mostly from mobs, via frantic brair and briar repel.

now to compare yourself to me
your str is 2.5x mine
your dex is 1k less than mine
your dam is 2.5x mine
your pa is 3x mine
your p crit is 600 more
your acc is 1k less

looking at all your skills, they do 2 to 5 times as much damage

That all means you are better geared, and/or have more tp in your skills than me=you are better than me

EXCEPT
your white damage average hit is 7k less than mine.

All that equals that you rushed your levels, gear, skills and really are missing alot. You could be so much more, as in that bad pull you mention in post 11 would not have resulted in a wipe. Thus you have to visit your local library to work off that debt instead of continuing to rofl stomp tosh hm.
95wd/95s/65d
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Please do not "class balanace" the tactics I use.

andreasels

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Tuesday, April 17th 2012, 4:00pm

Quoted from "camagic;525526"

first off, it is great that you are doing tosh hardmode. good job.

the most hits are from briar repel, which is an excellent aggro generator for all wardens.
your avg hits are 5th, your crits are 3rd on the scrut of your party. your avg frantic brair puts you at 3rd.
your overall damage is top. This is because it is mostly from mobs, via frantic brair and briar repel.

now to compare yourself to me
your str is 2.5x mine
your dex is 1k less than mine
your dam is 2.5x mine
your pa is 3x mine
your p crit is 600 more
your acc is 1k less

looking at all your skills, they do 2 to 5 times as much damage

That all means you are better geared, and/or have more tp in your skills than me=you are better than me

EXCEPT
your white damage average hit is 7k less than mine.

All that equals that you rushed your levels, gear, skills and really are missing alot. You could be so much more, as in that bad pull you mention in post 11 would not have resulted in a wipe. Thus you have to visit your local library to work off that debt instead of continuing to rofl stomp tosh hm.


Ehm, what are you talking about? My white hits are really low ofc, since I barely do any whitehits on mobs (frantic briar spam anyone?), but on bosses I do -> ofc the average damage is low on Whitehits.

Don't tell me I rushed anything lol, I am playing this game since release and this character exists since end of 2010 (changed from W/K to W/Wd there)

What you mean with

Quoted

your avg hits are 5th, your crits are 3rd on the scrut of your party. your avg frantic brair puts you at 3rd.
?

The scrut only shows you my hits (in left window) plus the total damage done, dps of last fight and average dps of everyone in party (in right window)

And about missing: it is like 1-2% which I miss and my 2H Axe Level is around 150

Also I never use library, what is Big Angel's Sigh7God's Redemption Ticket for? lol

Btw, did you notice that Briar Repel (which you say is so huge Aggro generator) is only 10% of total damage, while Frantic Briar is 64%? Just sayin...
Druffbaum W/Wd/S and Baumschmuser D/S

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camagic

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Tuesday, April 17th 2012, 4:16pm

Your average white hit is lower than my average white hit. 28k to my 35k, unless you actually have an arguement that 28k is more than 35k.

You admited to not being familiar with wd/s, only w/k and w/wd. This is also evident by the lvl 55 on your scout.

Your avg hits are 5th, and crits 3rd by the right sruit. In the breakdown(on the left), this can be adjusted to placing you at about 3rd overall due to the 720 frantic briars at 154k avg hit.

775 hits from briar repel with those 2 hatred X is a large aggro generation, unless you want to claim that it is not.
95wd/95s/65d
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Please do not "class balanace" the tactics I use.

camagic

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Tuesday, April 17th 2012, 4:25pm

angel sigh and redemption tickets cover hero pots, spiced roast fish, and cheesecakes?

do they cover armor repair too?

I am sure that they shackles of the cursed face and heurtons battle armor will average for 10mil on your servers ah too.
95wd/95s/65d
server artemis
Please do not "class balanace" the tactics I use.