Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "camagic;525532"

Your average white hit is lower than my average white hit. 28k to my 35k, unless you actually have an arguement that 28k is more than 35k.

You admited to not being familiar with wd/s, only w/k and w/wd. This is also evident by the lvl 55 on your scout.

Your avg hits are 5th, and crits 3rd by the right sruit. In the breakdown(on the left), this can be adjusted to placing you at about 3rd overall due to the 720 frantic briars at 154k avg hit.

775 hits from briar repel with those 2 hatred X is a large aggro generation, unless you want to claim that it is not.

Where are your white hits average of 35k each?

As I said, the whitehits were mostly on bosses, while Frantic Briar for example was mostly on Trash, so ofc Frantic Briar.

Since bosses got higher pdef and crit resistance, ofc the hits on them are really low compared to the other skills which I use on Trash more often also.

I never admitted that I am not familiar with Wd/S, I just don't play it as often as W/Wd. Level 55 on scout side is just cause I am too lazy to do butterfly dailies for a few more % on Shot which I barely use anyway and a pathetic amount of dex, so why would I need to level it higher?

Still don't understand what you mean with avg hits are 5th and crits 3rd...you don't see any crits or average hits of the others O.o

The 775 hits from briar repel are still only 10% of total damage done over the instance -> 10% of the total aggro done over the whole instance...dunno what you want to try to tell me. Ofc it is nice to have on Trash as Tank, but nothing more really.

edit: and what have food/repair costs to do with library? O.o

Also what have prices on my server to do with anything there? You make enough money as endgame player, so costs for Angel Sigh/Repair/Food are pathetic low % of total income.

PS: Wipes can and will happen with every party/tank

Camagic can you explain what your problem is? I really don't get it...

@galen

I am glad to hear that you do not get it... as in you dont get the ah with high prices on gear such as the heurton's battle armor or shackles of the cursed face, due to people trying to fit a sqaure peg in a round hole. If you dont have a problem with high prices, then there is no problem.

@andre

maybe you could help clear something up. what is that addon in the lower right just above your combat log? It looks like it has eight sections.

Quoted from "camagic;525556"

@andre

maybe you could help clear something up. what is that addon in the lower right just above your combat log? It looks like it has eight sections.

It's a part of fSlimUI...but what has this to do with the topic? And what are you talking to Galen about prices in AH? I don't understand you xD

Quoted from "andreasels;525676"

It's a part of fSlimUI...but what has this to do with the topic? And what are you talking to Galen about prices in AH? I don't understand you xD

It sounds like he's just trolling.

I am trying to figure out where your aggro meter is. So where is it?

The whole point is that you wipe when you dont need to due to not even coming close to maximizing your character, you are encouraging others to follow your example, and that results in the higher prices/wasted pots and rebuffs that has become a problem, unless you want to claim all the people posting on the borked IG economy are trolling too.

I know you dont understand. I welcome you to come up with an actual arguement to your position as the claims of trolling and pointing at me are not.

I see you asking more and more questions to confuse the issue, instead of coming up with actual points.

I see you do not understand how to read your scrut and do not interpet the number because of the statements about not understanding the avg and crits on the overall scrut on the right. By the right chart, you are 5th overall on your avg hits and 3rd by crits. You are just gaining more hits on more targets to get most overall damage. By interpeting your breakdown, the 720 frantic briars at avg of 154k(which is 64% of your overall damage) compared to the right scrut numbers would rank you as third overall. I am actually giving you the benefit of increasing your ranking to 3rd by interpeting your breakdown numbers.

I can tell you do not understand aggro. You are misinterpeting overall dps as aggro. Even if you refer to the wiki formula of 1tps=1 dam, that is not 1tps=1dps, and even the wiki admits an exlusionary for burst damage. Practice with your centaur and the valiant shot and centaur arrow will make this more apperent because the boss will switch from you to the centaur at the moment of those hitting( and back since you are currently stated max str). If that still is not enough, go practice with the spirit of the oak and see that the 10x aggro punch will not hold aggro over you, due to the 4 sec interval of punch.

But still, it is great that you are doing tosh hm, which I already stated.

For everyone else, it is your character. Build it how you want at your own enjoyment/peril.

My Aggrometer is between fSlimUI and Scrutinizer, I use Hatelist and it only shows the aggro when it's needed (-> when I got a mob in target which has aggro on something/someone)

What is wrong in encouraging people to try something? Imo Wd/S can be a good tank if proper statted (I already said that I don't have optimum statting for a Wd/S tank since I only tried it with half Warrior and half Tank gear and it still worked).
What have food costs to do with the economy? Food costs are the least problem we got in RoM. And if I read it correct in one of the previous posts you were complaining that some items from ToSH cost 10kk LOL. 10kk is like nothing for a ToSH item, some stats used to sell for this amount (and still do....last Sta/HP Hero of me sold for 29kk in AH, just saying....)

To bring proper aguments I firstly need to understand your argumentation, cause for me you just write more and more offtopic stuff (-> trolling) and avoiding questions.

I understand how to read my scrutinizer very well, but seems you don't.

Scrutinizer works like followed:

Right window:



Left window:



Still don't understand what you are trying to say with being 5th and 3rd in scrut with crits or without and with frantic or without, it's just...What are you trying to tell me? Could you maybe write all relevant numbers and how you get to your result and not just throw in your things without any explanation?

I understand Aggro very well (1 damage = 1 aggro without any modifiers). Afaik Pets don't get Aggrobonus of Hatred Runes and stuff, so since (in Burst) with Strong Stimulating Scent, 2 Hatred X and Aoth Set, I got +143% Aggro, so Chiron would need to do nearly 2.5 times my dmg to overaggro me....won't happen.

Edit: Scrutinizer explanation is a bit broken, cause it doesn't fit all in 1 line which is in scrut in 1 line, but I guess it is still understandable.

Edit2: Saying that Wd/S can't tank is same like saying that W/S or S/W or R/K or whatever can't be DPS just because they are not the best DPS who are there. According to your argumentation, you would need to go to instance with only the best class combos and nothing else.

Interesting choice of hatelist for aggro meter.

what is wrong with encouraging ppl to try something? I already stated that encouragement in post 28. Thank you for repeating me.

What does food cost have to do with the economy? Keep track of your food cost and that should become apparent.

You did not read my previous post correctly. I meant that tosh stuff should be 10million gold in order to discourage/elimante gold spammers. The higher prices, ie 29 million for one stat, encourages use of gold spammers. The highest legal gold farming generation in the game is the selling of gear picked up in the lower instances, such as ks, clops, gc. This only gives about 2 million and hour. Dog meat, mats, pots, whatever is not gold. That comes(legally) mainly from gold runs. But that getting is off topic.

I advoided your questions previously because their intent was to get off topic(see above) or go back to the only point you previously made: you run tosh hm and called me a troll.

Thank you for finally making a point about scrut.

I see that your scrut is different. I apologize for not understanding that your scrut on the right list (dps of last fight/avg dps) and believing that it was (avg dps/avg crits). That is how 5th placement by the right screen came about, because I misunderstood that the 80k was your avg dps. Feel free to disreguard all the specific statements about 5th place.

Now, to properly reference your scrut: Your avg dps is 3rd. I properly assumed this in previous post, by interpeting your breakdown from the left screen. Your overall damage and percentage on the right screen is showing as top only because you are gaining more hits from the mobs. Your overall damage is mob based(the aoe from the 720 frantic briars and 775 briar repels), not single target based. You are not in the top dps, but you are only about 30k away from top dps in your party. You are third dps at 136k, and top overall damage, probably because you are clearing the mobs.

As for aggro. I concur that currently there is no way to prove or disprove the pets aggro as there is no way to measure it. I put in another thread about that very issue.

As to the statement: "I got +143% Aggro, so the Chiron would need to do nearly 2.5 times my dmg to overaggro me...won.t happen", grats on the +143% aggro modifier to overcome the lack of aggro skills for wd/s. As for the 2.5 times my dmg not happening, I encourage you to look up the pet damage formulas http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthread.php?t=65611. In actual practice, the use of the Chiron can range from .5x to 10x my dps, but mainly stays in the 2 to 4x range. The reason for the variance is having to command it to stop attacking when it gains more aggro that me, and then command it to start when I(while soloing), or the tank, regains the aggro.

For the edit 1: The scrut explanation is quite understandable and does not seem broken at all

For edit 2: I have witnessed many class combos "tanking", most notably was a p/k tanking 12 lvl 75/75s and the boss. I have seen a couple r/k "dodge tank". They are not tanks; they only put added pressure on the healers. They only fullfill a hole(feel free to refer to previous post about a square peg in a round hole).

I feel that wd/s is not a tank as they do not really have the aggro management, ability to directionalize(get a target to face a certain way on command), and ability to pickup the mob(yes, I am aware of the arguement that frantic briar can do this, but with the cast time and fact that it can be interrupted, it does fail to do this). The wd/s glosses over this with the dps, frantic brair aoe(which is a great skill, albeit painfully slow to cast), and briar repel(which in terms of time is a great aggro generator, due to the gain of the extra hit).


Ultimately, and way beyond the scope of this topic, is the intent to reduce the amount of wipes/deaths,

thus reducing the recovery(amount spent on debt reduction[time at library, angel sighs, redemption tickets], rebuffing[pots and foods], and repair[gold and/or hammers]),

thus reducing the cost of pots, foods, hammers, gear, dias(all aiding in edging out gold spammers and botters),

thus aiding in the ability of people to prepared for instances, pvp, seige, etc(getting geared, stated, pots, food),

thus reducing the number of wipes. And it would be an upward spiral we encounter in game, instead of the current downward spiral.

Quoted from "camagic;525943"

Interesting choice of hatelist for aggro meter.

what is wrong with encouraging ppl to try something? I already stated that encouragement in post 28. Thank you for repeating me.

What does food cost have to do with the economy? Keep track of your food cost and that should become apparent.

You did not read my previous post correctly. I meant that tosh stuff should be 10million gold in order to discourage/elimante gold spammers. The higher prices, ie 29 million for one stat, encourages use of gold spammers. The highest legal gold farming generation in the game is the selling of gear picked up in the lower instances, such as ks, clops, gc. This only gives about 2 million and hour. Dog meat, mats, pots, whatever is not gold. That comes(legally) mainly from gold runs. But that getting is off topic.

I advoided your questions previously because their intent was to get off topic(see above) or go back to the only point you previously made: you run tosh hm and called me a troll.

Thank you for finally making a point about scrut.

I see that your scrut is different. I apologize for not understanding that your scrut on the right list (dps of last fight/avg dps) and believing that it was (avg dps/avg crits). That is how 5th placement by the right screen came about, because I misunderstood that the 80k was your avg dps. Feel free to disreguard all the specific statements about 5th place.

Now, to properly reference your scrut: Your avg dps is 3rd. I properly assumed this in previous post, by interpeting your breakdown from the left screen. Your overall damage and percentage on the right screen is showing as top only because you are gaining more hits from the mobs. Your overall damage is mob based(the aoe from the 720 frantic briars and 775 briar repels), not single target based. You are not in the top dps, but you are only about 30k away from top dps in your party. You are third dps at 136k, and top overall damage, probably because you are clearing the mobs.

As for aggro. I concur that currently there is no way to prove or disprove the pets aggro as there is no way to measure it. I put in another thread about that very issue.

As to the statement: "I got +143% Aggro, so the Chiron would need to do nearly 2.5 times my dmg to overaggro me...won.t happen", grats on the +143% aggro modifier to overcome the lack of aggro skills for wd/s. As for the 2.5 times my dmg not happening, I encourage you to look up the pet damage formulas http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthread.php?t=65611. In actual practice, the use of the Chiron can range from .5x to 10x my dps, but mainly stays in the 2 to 4x range. The reason for the variance is having to command it to stop attacking when it gains more aggro that me, and then command it to start when I(while soloing), or the tank, regains the aggro.

For the edit 1: The scrut explanation is quite understandable and does not seem broken at all

For edit 2: I have witnessed many class combos "tanking", most notably was a p/k tanking 12 lvl 75/75s and the boss. I have seen a couple r/k "dodge tank". They are not tanks; they only put added pressure on the healers. They only fullfill a hole(feel free to refer to previous post about a square peg in a round hole).

I feel that wd/s is not a tank as they do not really have the aggro management, ability to directionalize(get a target to face a certain way on command), and ability to pickup the mob(yes, I am aware of the arguement that frantic briar can do this, but with the cast time and fact that it can be interrupted, it does fail to do this). The wd/s glosses over this with the dps, frantic brair aoe(which is a great skill, albeit painfully slow to cast), and briar repel(which in terms of time is a great aggro generator, due to the gain of the extra hit).


Ultimately, and way beyond the scope of this topic, is the intent to reduce the amount of wipes/deaths,

thus reducing the recovery(amount spent on debt reduction[time at library, angel sighs, redemption tickets], rebuffing[pots and foods], and repair[gold and/or hammers]),

thus reducing the cost of pots, foods, hammers, gear, dias(all aiding in edging out gold spammers and botters),

thus aiding in the ability of people to prepared for instances, pvp, seige, etc(getting geared, stated, pots, food),

thus reducing the number of wipes. And it would be an upward spiral we encounter in game, instead of the current downward spiral.

Another noob telling druff to check damage formulas? ( if I understood correctly what you were trying to say... As it seems I'm too stupid to understand).

I cant verify if you are stupid or not, but you did understand the encouragement to read about the damage formulas for the warden pets.

And thx for the compliment of calling me a noob. I pride myself on being a noob, really, truthfully, I do.

Quoted from "camagic;525943"

I encourage you to look up the pet damage formulas http://forum.us.runesofmagic.com/showthread.php?t=65611.

Lol. You do realize you are linking him his own post right? You're arguing with the man who discovered the melee damage formula, ranged damage formula and pet damage formula.

Quoted from "camagic;525946"

I cant verify if you are stupid or not, but you did understand the encouragement to read about the damage formulas for the warden pets.

And thx for the compliment of calling me a noob. I pride myself on being a noob, really, truthfully, I do.

Read the post above this one

glad to see you caught the irony of it.

Quoted from "camagic;525949"

glad to see you caught the irony of it.

Was that supposed to be sarcastic? I am not saying you can't argue with druff. I've tried many times myself... Most of the time you are bound to accept you're wrong. Especially on topics so dear to him.

Btw... The noob was only in reference to you linking him his own post. Otherwise I condemn name calling :-)

No. I am actually not being sarcastic about it. I actually applaude you for catching onto that, and have to say that you are not as stupid as you may think you seem.(based off the comment in post 31.) I think tangetially and as such, my points come across without tact, seemingly as trolling, or not at all.

Also, I like being a noob.

Lowering prices of gear will only change 1 thing: Goldbuyers get even quicker to their destinated equip.
Also you need to see that there are not many gold sinks in this game. Actually only repair costs, diamonds from NPC, pots and fusion stones/belts for tierstone making. All the rest gold stays in the game and only changes the posessor.

About scrut: I know that most of the overall damage I did was from mobs (and I wrote it already), still it is impressive to see that over the whole instance you can keep up with top DPS classes even you are the tank.

If Chiron does that much more dps (dps, not damage per hit!) than you do yourself, you maybe don't use Pots and music, which affect you but not Chiron.

R/K or P/K tanking are different, since they can't reach the same pdef/hp at still acceptable Aggro as a Wd/S can. Wd/S got advantage cause of the insane high pdef buff of Heart of the Oak, the possibility to wear at least chain gear, use of 2 hatred runes (R/K can too though) and the ability to AoE aswell as ST and ranged attacks.

He will never reach the tanking capability of Wd/W or K/X but still he is able to do it (and not cause of dodge or so....he really can tank)

Again: on a Wd/S who is statted for tanking you could reach higher p.att and higher pdef/HP than I do on my mixed gear.

US hating on EU

nothing new

refer to post 38

according to the scrut, your dps is not top, it is 3rd, and out of 5(unless you want to count the healer as a dps), that is average.

I invite you to learn that pots, foods, buffs, music(or any other modifier, except aggro as that has not been proven/disproven) DO affect ALL warden pets.

This is all showing the many abilities of wardens, and wd/s in particular as DD. The aoe(frantic briar, cross chop, beast king attack), the melee(potws, charged chop, untamable), and ranged(vamp arrows, anti-magic, pets). Hoto and chain gear help to increase the wardens surviablity, which is a key element in all classes/roles. I play a healer too, so I know that the r/k(and all rogues, s/r) rely on that dodge, but when that hit comes thru, it is a big owie, or even worst, they are down, which will usually mean a wipe. As for the p/k-that is my point, they are not a tank. Yes, they can take a bit of a beating and their heals generate aggro, but that is not all there is to tanking.

The wd/w and k/x are the tanks. I am not familiar with all the k/x combos to know which are tanks and which are melee DD, but know that the k/w and k/s are the tanks I most often encounter.

Stating for tanking does not make a tank. At best you get a battlemonk, which is still a DD, not a tank.