Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "acidkavu;539020"

Why? http://www.theromwiki.com/Warrior_Elite_Skills Look!

Possibly will be the best End-Game Warrior combo you could ever had. Why?

The first Warrior with all Elite skills scale on STR, this is what the Warrior been waiting for, this is what keep Warrior jealous behind Rogue cause Rogue get the cheap stat modifier damage.

Sure it won't make much different if you have 1100 Str for newbie, but 11,000 Str for Advanced players? these abilities will deal massive damage.

Unbridled Rage - increase STR by % even further, this is insane.

Sure some skills cost Health, but that's what healer for right?

It could be a good combo, but not for the reasons you list. As many people have explained in the past, those stat modifiers add flat damage that don't get any boosts. 0.2 * even 20000 strength is still only 4000 damage which is near trivial at that stage of the game.

We don't know for sure, but according to onlinewelton's site, the strength buff is only 10% at max level... meh. That's will probably be over 5% more PAtk which isn't nothing, but it's less than even W/Wd's PAtk buff from secondary.

W/C will benefit from having 3 attacks that don't require rage, an attack speed buff, a short PAtk buff, that small strength buff, and a nice pdef debuff that can boost everyone's damage (hopefully it stacks with similar effects). I think they'll do reasonably well, but I'm not sure if they'll be pulling W/Wd out of the top warrior spot just yet.

Quoted from "acidkavu;539020"

The first Warrior with all Elite skills scale on STR, this is what the Warrior been waiting for, this is what keep Warrior jealous behind Rogue cause Rogue get the cheap stat modifier damage.

Sure it won't make much different if you have 1100 Str for newbie, but 11,000 Str for Advanced players? these abilities will deal massive damage.

Huh?

Massive Damage?

You do realise those stat modifiers only increase the damage output by ~2k - 10k depending on the %?

Warrior Champion will be interesting to see but they won't be able to DPS as much as other combos.

Quoted from "mrmisterwaa;539047"

Huh?

Warrior Champion will be interesting to see but they won't be able to DPS as much as other combos.

I don't think I'd agree with the sentiment that they won't be able to DPS as much as other combos, I mean they gain a dps % boost to slash and with the HP requirement of slash it'll be spammable, it'll be more reliant on heals though.

I'd think as long as they are able to hit the Patk Cap that it really shouldn't be too much of an issue being able to DPS on the class.

Quoted from "Kefkai;539058"

I don't think I'd agree with the sentiment that they won't be able to DPS as much as other combos, I mean they gain a dps % boost to slash and with the HP requirement of slash it'll be spammable, it'll be more reliant on heals though.

I'd think as long as they are able to hit the Patk Cap that it really shouldn't be too much of an issue being able to DPS on the class.

I never said they can't DPS.

They just can't beat the other ones.

If skills have to drain HP, it hurts far too much. Look at Scouts in Chapter 4. Barely used their HP drain skills. Yes, it makes them do a reasonable amount of damage ... but a dead DPS is no DPS.

Quoted from "mrmisterwaa;539071"

I never said they can't DPS.

They just can't beat the other ones.

If skills have to drain HP, it hurts far too much. Look at Scouts in Chapter 4. Barely used their HP drain skills. Yes, it makes them do a reasonable amount of damage ... but a dead DPS is no DPS.

DPS is not the end-all and be-all in this game, especially in near- or end-game instances.

WTB a properly-geared, statted, and skill-leveled Ch/W or Ch/Wl for running content level 65+, kthxbai.

Quoted from "acidkavu;539213"

I remember when Chapter 4 first out, this was the biggest buffs for all Rogue and Mages, their skills suddenly all scale on stat, drastically increase their damage, except Warrior didn't get any change, until now, unfortunately only Warrior Champion get it.

No, that wasn't the biggest buff that those classes received. Not by a long shot. The stat modifiers had an almost trivial effect on those classes except in some PVP situations.

The big buffs to rogue? Increased weapon passive. Increased DPS% on their main skills (by a huge amount). Base skill damage changed from 1.0*PDam to 137.5% DPS (not a huge difference, but definitely helpful to classes with fast weapons).

The big buffs to mages? A new spike buff that doubles DPS. Spells now scale at a % of MDam with skill level. Those two changes alone quadrupled the mage's spike DPS.

Quoted from "mrmisterwaa;539071"

I never said they can't DPS.

They just can't beat the other ones.

If skills have to drain HP, it hurts far too much. Look at Scouts in Chapter 4. Barely used their HP drain skills. Yes, it makes them do a reasonable amount of damage ... but a dead DPS is no DPS.

That's what I'm disagreeing on though, that they can't beat the other ones, I'm saying they'll either do just as much dps or more given their %'s.

Also, there's a huge difference between 2% hp and 10% hp every 2 seconds, the maximum you can possibly get is 10% hp every 5 seconds if you were lagless, which should easily be able to be outhealed by any normal HoT.

Besides it's not like they're going to be the one tanking anyways.

I have to disagree with OP and people supporting him.
1st, strength as modifier won't change anything, as someone already explained, its flat dmg, fully buffed (with even 25k str - like me) with 500k+ dps its only 5k more, 500 vs 505, not much difference.
2nd, notice its combo based on rage, so only 1 skill pool, will be good at burst, when you have rage from pots/cape/aggressivness etc, at long fights when rage is short, HP drain skills won't be enough to keep enough dps (no rage regen elite skills at all for w/ch like for example w/s have), and healer at more demanding fights can be busy with tank, keeping his eye whole the time at suicidal dps won't be welcomed.
As for rogues or mages and their boost, dex/int modifier has nothing to do with their increased dps, but, also as already mentioned, increase dps %/more points (mages) for their skills and increased masteries.

Quoted from "acidkavu;539020"

Why? http://www.theromwiki.com/Warrior_Elite_Skills Look!

Possibly will be the best End-Game Warrior combo you could ever had. Why?

The first Warrior with all Elite skills scale on STR, this is what the Warrior been waiting for, this is what keep Warrior jealous behind Rogue cause Rogue get the cheap stat modifier damage.

Sure it won't make much different if you have 1100 Str for newbie, but 11,000 Str for Advanced players? these abilities will deal massive damage.

Unbridled Rage - increase STR by % even further, this is insane.

Sure some skills cost Health, but that's what healer for right?

the modifier does almost nothing end game. at least nothing noticable. and with all of the skills sucking hp, this doesn't look like a very popular combo. and the skills given are mediocre damaging-wise.

Ok...let's just say that W/ch is for some reason "epic" and let's just say you are out DPSing the other classes, what happens when/if you pull aggro? Your HP drain + a full attack from a boss or elite mob and you are gonna be surfing the floor.

Quoted from "squirrlee;539277"

Ok...let's just say that W/ch is for some reason "epic" and let's just say you are out DPSing the other classes, what happens when/if you pull aggro? Your HP drain + a full attack from a boss or elite mob and you are gonna be surfing the floor.

Don't think you really proved your point there considering in any major instance if you somehow manage to pull aggro (I'm guessing you don't have recons or something or the tank isn't doing it's job right) you're pretty much screwed anyways, boss aoes are going to be the only real concern.

Most people can't tank more than one hit from most bosses past RT gold maybe without 200k+ pdef.

Also for more busy boss fights, druids can still use mother earth's fountain, it's not really going to hurt their Heals Per Second.

Looks like w/wd, really high aggro, but will die more because of skills that use hp.

At least in order to compensate for the hp drain the W/C gets that recovery elite (though probly hard to use) and the extra stamina and parry passives from champion general, in that respect it functions as a W/K, except the hp drain skills are meant to sacrifice the survivability for dps

Quoted from "Feanwyn;540522"

At least in order to compensate for the hp drain the W/C gets that recovery elite (though probly hard to use) and the extra stamina and parry passives from champion general, in that respect it functions as a W/K, except the hp drain skills are meant to sacrifice the survivability for dps

Lol definitely not, being as a Warrior/Knight is actually MADE to tank, and this combination is in no way, shape or form, no matter how you try to stretch it, tankable.

I'm not saying that this class should tank at all, I'm saying that the added hp, however slight, would be helpful since all of its elites consume hp. Never said it should tank, it's obvious that it can't, I compared it to W/K because W/K also gets the passive stamina boost and parry, that is all.

Well i think we will have to w8 for the 1st ones to try it end game. The good think is that one does not need to change gear from a dps w/wd or wr/k to try it out. Also we didn't see how much HP do the skills take at lvl 70 which is the most important thing here. A 300 hp steal / 120k+ hp for ex. ain't a lot.

I tried to plus the skills in item preview but they don't seem to work atm. The % dps of each skill is also important. The Savage Warrior has some really high %dps skills + dmg buff + and patt buff, so i don't see how wr/ch can match it tbh.

It seem most elite drain Health bad.

Healer need constant attention on Warrior/Champion lol

Remind me of Warrior/Priest

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EDIT
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This was initial analysis. Now that i've seen all the skills at max, my opinion has changed a bit. See different post.

Quoted from "darksteel;546484"

It seem most elite drain Health bad.

Healer need constant attention on Warrior/Champion lol

Remind me of Warrior/Priest

*Edit: Doesn't appear that they scale with level (the % HP loss), so this class seems like a viable option in my honest opinion.

The W/Ch looks okay to be honest...but I think lacks some things in comparison to other warriors.


1) While they have no spammable skill (the only one that really does is w/wd: w/r should only be using shadowstab as a filler), they have a similar style to that of the W/R.


Let's look at the rotation 'fillers' (again having no idea how they scale):


-- Vendetta Blow: Inflicts 70.0% + 0.20 x STR main hand weapon physical DPS damage on a target. The more HP you lose, the more damage this skill inflicts.
Analysis: The 0.2 Str main hand weapon physical dps is not really relevant, so how does the actual percentage scale? If it scales like Keen attack (which I recall was like 3.6%? it's been a long time), then you really aren't getting a lot of damage out of this skill. Is the life lost really translating to a lot more damage? It seems to imply it is NOT % based, so my original inclination is no.
Verdict: Unless it scales well, keen attack & shadowstab are better for the W/R.


-- Bloody Slash: Inflicts 80.0% + 0.20 x STR main hand weapon physical DPS on target.
Analysis: if this scales >= 4.9% per level it's simply a better shadowstab. 30 HP cost is nothing. Doesn't seem to indicate it increasing with level. 5 sec cooldown is relevant.


--Inflicts 70.0% + 0.20 x STR main hand weapon physical DPS on the target and reduces the target's Physical Defense by 8.0% for 8.0 seconds.
Analysis: As long as this doesn't override better debuffs (W/R Splitting Chop, S/R Sapping Arrow, etc.) Then This is a pretty useful skill. I like the 8 sec cooldown aspect in that it feels just right rotation wise and it's permanent unlike W/R, at the cost of halve the -def%. IF directly comparing the 2 without other debuffs, over a long time it's still slightly less effective because of reduced effectiveness of burn.


Wild Slash: Increases damage caused by Slash and changes to consume HP. After it hits, Bleed effect can also increase Physical Attack Speed by 1.0%.

*Edit: This skill is the entire reason W/Ch may be viable. 10% Physical Attack Speed at max is no joke...



2)
SUPPORT:
This is where I feel it may be lacking.
Blood Rune Weapon: Increases Physical Attack Power by 1.0% and Critical Physical Hit Rate by 25.0 for 15.0 seconds.
--This scales okay (I think it was 6% or something?). Not amazing but decent.

Unbridled Rage: 10% str for 15 seconds? Seems much worse than 17% patk from W/Wd, but nothing to shake a stick at.


Does this really compare to nimble hands (permanent dps% buff essentially) and dual wielding (less aggro)? My initial impression is definitely not.


I'm inclined to believe that with the three attack skills above, you would likely be fine in having an actual rotation without the need to be getting hit. 5 second cooldowns are pretty short honestly, and the hp loss of the skills are low (1%) so I really don't think that is relevant (W/R should be losing 5% hp every 8 seconds with a proper rotation).
I would say switching to the class just to try it out is definitely not worth the amount of money, because in the long run I don't see it comparing to the dps of the w/r.


However, I will say that simply knocking the class based on not being able to put up a rotation is very premature and I would bet that you can definitely manage your rage effectively with the hp skills. It's all a matter of if the hp skills scale the % lossed or not that it might matter.




If I come back to the game I may test these things out at lower levels and grind some numbers to possibly see its endgame potential, but I won't be playing it over W/R. My prediction is that if skills scale well it may be able to burn close to a w/wd (but not quite as much due to the 5% party buff or w/e), but have better sustained dps. The level 15 elite skill, if I'm reading it correctly, would have the most potential. Do I think it will be popular? No. Viable? Depends if the % hp scales to make the hp loss equivalent to blood arrow or not, or if it stays the same (in which case I think the class is viable). If the hp skills do not scale above shadowstab level, then I don't see it being the #1 choice, as W/Wd has PotWS and W/R has Keen Attack and Splitting Chop. W/Ch however does have a pseudo nimble hands like the W/R in its slash ability.

Sorry for the elongated post, but the new classes seem interesting although I'd imagine levelling them up would be a little nutty. I'll sum up where I think the W/Ch may stack:
W/R >= W/Wd (depending on who you ask =P, I'm always on the side of W/R) > W/Ch > rest of the warrior clan.

*Edit: Seems closer than I originally thought based on what I've been researching in terms of life loss, but I need to know more about the support skills. I wouldn't count this warrior out. Still not playing it over W/R tho, as I love(d) my 2x Recon IX.