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1

Tuesday, December 18th 2012, 1:03am

Chiron Attribute Discussion

For the majority of time playing warden/scout, I've read many forums and discussions about what chiron gains in terms of attributes, and what warden/scouts should be statting. As of recently, I decided to do some tests and collect info from other warden/scouts, to make my own conclusions. Here are the results:

Dexterity -- does it really add damage? NO
I gathered some equipment that had no strength or p.atk stats on them, but all added to my dexterity (blue bag items with stam/dex, or dex/hp X stats for example). I then proceeded to heffner camp, stripped gears and found some level 1 beetles for my centaur to beat up. According to scrutinizer, average crit damage over 49 centaur's arrow crits was 21.37k. After equipping the dex gears, and gaining 1131 dexterity (doubling what I previously had) and gaining zero patk, I had my centaur beat up more beetles. 24 crits, average damage 21.38k. Conclusion: dex adds little to no noticeable damage.

Accuracy -- does it actually help? NO
Information was gathered from 3 different warden/scouts, with 3 different accuracy values -- two of which had less then 7.5k accuracy, the third had over 16k when summoning centaur wearing his rogue gears. We all took info from scrutinizer from multiple downs of the same lvl 75 world boss all 3 of us had average of 33% DODGE rate on centaur's arrow. With over twice the accuracy, or 9k point difference, when summoning the centaurs, one would expect a minimum of 5% fewer dodges to occur over a few thousand centaur's arrows, if not more. However, we did not observe this difference, so my conclusion is that accuracy has no effect. Any deviance from this could simply be explained by the random number generator -- just like how some people can +16 items without failing, and when you try to do it yourself you fail 5 times just trying to get +6, it does not mean that the other person has better +'ing success rates -- another way to put it is one day you have 75% crit rate on your skills and another day only 60% crit rate on the exact same boss with the same gear. Accuracy/dodge rates of the centaur have to be more level based, rather then accuracy or dodge rate based.

Although I didn't list precise values above, any feedback/further discussion/other observations from players are welcome, but please try to provide some evidence or explanations -- I am trying to prove to myself and other players what is in fact correct, not what some people "think" is correct, so I'd rather be able to replicate an experiment/test from someone and try to reach the same, or possibly different, conclusions.

One thing of particular interest to me is the actually damage calculation of chiron. I have read multiple posts such as the one by Andreasals (sorry if spelled incorrectly), but there are a few formulas posted on the forums that are accurate down to minor variations ( +/- few % in dmg which could be attributed to the RNG) -- which formula is actually 100% correct is something I would like to know as I have no method for guessing/generating the formulas myself.

camagic

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Tuesday, December 18th 2012, 2:04am

Have you verified this against other targets? An easy way would be to check if you get the same 33% dodge rate after an entire siege, as that would help to prove if it is level based. Or try Krolin, tosh bosses, AC bosses, KBN bosses if siege testing doesnt strike your fancy.

Also, could you please link the other forums that have the damage forumlas?
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3

Tuesday, December 18th 2012, 2:26am

I know that in lower level instances, hit rate is up, but I have never tested against other level 75 targets. I suppose I could just flag pk and test on a person (i'm on pvp server indigo). I'll post with results later today.

There's a lot of discussion about warden pet damage on the EU forums. One specific thread, which I trust more then others is https://forum.runesofmagic.com/showthread.php?t=423361 Andreasals/Druffbaum knows wtf he's talking about but there have been other posts with other formulas that yield similar results so I started to question this a bit.

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Tuesday, December 18th 2012, 2:46am

any others?
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5

Tuesday, December 18th 2012, 2:55am

Well, to explain that, do you ever lowblow or charged chop for the exact same damage 5 times in a row? Bleeds aside, just about every skill has a small variation in damage -- the higher the output the greater (numerically) the variation is, but it could be a fixed %. Let's say, you do XYZ dmg (found via formula) +/- 0-2% (chosen at random).

And back to accuracy issue, I tested vs lvl 75 player with 1677 dodge. I summoned chiron with no gear on, 38% dodge rate after 120 centaur's arrows. Little discrepency from the 33% from the lvl 75 boss, BUT according to rom-welten, the lvl 75 boss only has 5 dodge rate -- not sure if it is % dodge or an actual value but either way, this makes up for the difference imo.

EDIT Tested on some different players. One rogue with 13k dodge never dodged after 80 centaur's arrows, yet a p/s had 33% dodge rate, and another rogue with 14.8k dodge had 24% dodge rate. A guildy of mine mentioned defense skill level (in with weapon skills) but the rogue that had 0 dodges has a higher defense skill then the rogue that had 24%. so idk anymore lol. The next time I run KBN hard mode i'll ask the wd/s in party to keep an eye out for dodge rates.

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6

Tuesday, December 18th 2012, 3:36am

I would be nice if you are right that the accuracy is a fixed rate for the chiron based on level as that would greatly aid in statting.

In the original post, the results of testing show a 33% dodge for all 3 wardens. That seems odd that all three got that. I started thinking it may be an annoying soft cap, similar to the wis cap for healers and dodge cap for rouges. Hopefully it is just a standard rate based only on the centaurs level. Testing against other players should indicate if there are other factors, more than testing against NPCs. But testing with other players will produce more varied results, making it harder to narrow down.
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Tuesday, December 18th 2012, 3:58am

Quoted from "BlankMinded;581371"

A guildy of mine mentioned defense skill level (in with weapon skills).


I read awhile ago that the defense skill is compared to the Character level and weapon skill to determine the miss rate. It would be helpful to know if those skills also affect the dodge rate, damage, or anything else.
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8

Tuesday, December 18th 2012, 8:14pm

I can confirm that weapon skill increases damage as well. However, to notice the increase on white damage for example, you need to get to 50% of the next level. In tb beating up eggs, I gain 1-2 points of white damage when I level up weapon skill and get the additional 50% exp. Whether this effects skills or just white damage I have not tested. Best way to do that I suppose would be use use vamp arrow, some other bleed/dot, or cross chop (which always does constant damage for some reason).

What else weapon skill increases, I don't know. Maybe crit but that would be nearly impossible to determine due to the RNG. Also, supposedly every 10 defense skill levels you get a 1% damage received reduction -- haven't confirmed this though.

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Wednesday, March 27th 2013, 2:57am

I retested accuracy recently, mainly using druid's savage blessing buff (since it increases only accuracy). I tested it on a couple level 55-58 wardens (wd/d and wd/m) and on my lvl 77/75 wd/s. I also tested on mobs outside, inside instances, uniques, world bosses, siege, and duels.

So the accuracy buff does not show a clear effect on the 77/75 wd/s, but on the other ones, the increased accuracy shows a DECREASE accuracy for pets. The decrease is greater for the pet skills compared to the pet white hits also.

I can confirm that I average about 24% of pet shots dodged initially(less than 80ish shots), and then the % goes up the more shots are fired(100+). Also, the valiant shot is less accurate than the centaur arrow, which is also less than the accuracy of the pets white hits.

So, until they fix it and make the warden pets actually be based off the warden, stick to generic str/patt/stam stating.


In addition, I have noticed that the gap between pet hp and wd hp has been decreasing for the soto and increasing for the oak walker, chiron, and NC for high level players compared to lower level wardens, further supporting blankminded's idea that the pets are mainly on a schedule for the most part.
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server artemis
Please do not "class balanace" the tactics I use.

10

Wednesday, March 27th 2013, 3:11pm

Quoted from "camagic;595466"


So, until they fix it and make the warden pets actually be based off the warden, stick to generic str/patt/stam stating.


He has returned :D