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1

Monday, March 18th 2013, 9:24pm

druid healing - wis and damage

So - i know wisdom is wanted for druid. But does anyone haeve more info on how much wisdom helps the heals. has anyone tested this? I have done simple tests.. approx 400 wisdom difference - gives 30 more heal on cameila; 60 on healing arrow; and 1000 on mother earth. Damage seems to be 1/2 the magic damage as in other threads.

So - for example then. the jenny power gives more damage than the will to stop. but the will to stop gives more wisdom.. I would almost argue the jenny giant heart may be better that the will to stop. but...

what i do not know. is the healing point bonus increase which is abotu 200 points higher for the will to stop(at t9). I know most people are big on adding as much healing bonus as possible.

Last thought. even with healing... i feel magic damage food is best to use.
thanks for any help or clarifications.

2

Monday, March 18th 2013, 10:25pm

I think wisdom is somewhat useful only for d/s (king of HoT). Stam, pdef and HP rules :D

Jenny Giant heart T10 +16: 8588.2 mdam 3072 HPIP

The will to stop T10 + 16: 8244.7mdam 3409.9 HPIP 852.5wis

2 points of mdam = 1 HPIP

so Jenny Giant Heart : 4294.1 HPIP + 3072 HPIP = 7366 HPIP
The will to stop: 4122.35 HPIP + 3409,9 HPIP = 7532,25 HPIP + 852,5wis

The will to stop is a little better than Jenny Giant Heart

3

Tuesday, March 19th 2013, 4:48am

HoTs actually count your full mdam in their healing calculation, not half (unlike burst heals), so mdam is especially crucial for druids. I'm not quite sure where The Will To Stop v Jenny Giant's stack up, though I would think Jenny Giant's would be better for most druids, other than D/S, who could possibly benefit more from the extra wis on the KBN staff.

Wis cap for druid burst heals is much higher than the wis cap for priest burst heals, so ~12k minimum is what druids should look for. For D/S, stacking more is personal preference, but wisdom will still increase your HoTs quite a bit after that. It's an accumulative effect, so don't expect 200 wis to make much of a difference by itself.

Formerly Catorii, D/S/M of Faction.


4

Tuesday, March 19th 2013, 7:20am

Not my doing, nor do I take credit:

Source code

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As there are often questions  about the healing mechanics, decided to   post again the formula ( which  apart from some bugs during different   patches, hasn't really changed  since ch 2).

[B]Burst Heals:[/B] (final result of burst heals gets random  bonus   multipliers +6%/-6% so in fact the result is within 94-106% of  the   calculated value)

[B][MagicPower] x (CastTime) x (ReceivedHeals) x [(Wisdom x 0.3 +    mDamage x 0.5) x (IncreasedHealing) + HPI] + (SkillHeal x Received  Heals   x IncreasedHealing)
[/B]
To translate different multipliers into smth easier to understand:
- Magic Power Increase - global increase of the final damage/heal    output, typical examples Vahtos/ Juggler sets. Bugged at start of ch3    (no effect on burst heals) but was fixed back soon. Can raise the cap    for regens. Total increase is a bit less than 15%/10%, as Skill Heal is    added separately at the end.
- Cast Time - like most RoM skills, you have time of cast spells as multiplier: 2 sec - x2, 3sec - x3
- ReceivedHeals - buffs that increase heals received by target - pet    passive, Curing Seed, Lunar Halo, Healing Salve. They increase the    amount of heals by %
- Increased Healing - usually the class passives that increase your    heals - Prayer, Pure Healing, Divine Incarnation, as well as food (but    as mDamage food gives better results, usually out of calculations).  Note   - those don't affect your HPI. For example 1.35 multiplier from  Pure   Healing only applies to the rest of equation, so the total  increase is   far less than 35%
- Wisdom - every healing spell has cap above which Wisdom is ignored for    healing purpose. Really notable with Priest - GH at ~4k and UH ~7k.    Druid has it easier - Recover ~4.5k, MEF ~ 13k (11k is no NP), Restore    Life/Heal ~11k are not really used in combat but no harm to mention  them   too.
mDamage - total mDamage you get from your weapons, gear, buffs. Note    that there is some gear (chests) that gives '+ magic damage [U]bonus[/U] points' - unlike '+ magic damage points', those only provide static increase to your final damage and are of no use for heals.
HPI - Healing Points Increase that you get from your healer gear (D/S can get a bit of HPI from 40 elite)
SkillHeal - the value added by the skill itself.

[B]HoT Heals:[MagicPower] x (CastTime) x (ReceivedHeals) x [(Wisdom  x   0.3 + mDamage) x (IncreasedHealing) + HPI] / ticks + (SkillHeal x    Received Heals x IncreasedHealing)
[/B]
Main differences: mDamage has double value with HoTs; HoTs can't crit;    no Wisdom cap, but 24015 cap for regens (a bit over 26k with  Juggler's),   since ch3 mechanic was often bugged - now you get all the  ticks but   they start with 1 tick delay.

Example how calculations go (random numbers):
D/S 9k mDmg, 15k Wis, 12k HPI casts Recover on target with Lunar Halo buff active:
burst:[1.00] x 2 x 1.05 x [(4500x0.3 + 9000x0.5) x 1.35 + 12000] + (600 x 1.35 x 1.05) ~ 43k non-crit
regen: [1.00] x 2 x 1.05 x [(15000x0.3 + 9000) x 1.35 + 12000] / 7 + (272 x 1.35 x 1.05) ~ 9.5k per tick
life link (Life Guide) in this case as all multipliers are the same is 7/3 of Recover ticks ~ 22.5k per tick

[B]Crit rate:[/B] general formula calculates crit resistance of target and then depending on your rate determines the %. 
[B][I]CritResist=(60*lvl + 600)
[/I][/B][I]if[/I][B][I] cRate > cResist/2 [/I][/B][I]then[/I][B][I]100 * (cRate - cResist/4) / cRate
[/I][/B][I]else[/I][B][I] 100 * cRate / cResist[/I][/B]

As we see up to 50% things go linear, above 65% rate gives very    diminishing returns. Just to complete the theme to add that bosses have    extra crit Resist, skills that add to crit% in fact reduce crit Resist,    and that every level of difference additionally puts +/- 3%    bonus/penalty to your final score.

But as we are speaking about healing - all that is important is healer    level (for critResist - 4800 at 70) and his Rate. For example 2400    should give 50%, 3000 - 60%, 3600 - 66%. Ofc those numbers change with    every new lvl cap but this helps plan your gear to keep crit above 60%.

Though I left RoM for good , hope that re-posting formulas may help new healers who enjoy the game.


In code because its a bit lengthy.

I personally use magic damage food. As a d/s a big portion of your regens is directly affected by your mdmg, more so than stacking wisdom even. If you're a burst healing druid (d/w, d/wd), healing increase food might be the better route, but I haven't personally tested, so dont quote me on it.

Your burst heals on any type of druid get very little benefit from wisdom above ~12-13k, its pure regens above that. If you're going the pure wisdom route (at this point 18-20k wisdom unbuffed) you *should* be using the wisdom VN set to maximize on that. You'll sacrifice magic crit, but the amount of crit from proof armor and other pieces should be enough to keep you above the 70% soft cap.

As for Jenny Giant's Heart vs KBN staff: If you have the tosh one, stick with it. It really isnt worth the investment into a new staff where youll see little to no appreciable improvement on heals. I have an OD Jenny Giant's, and sticking with it till Chapter 6.

Ravesden, D/S/Wd 80/75/62
Retired. Click siggy for old RoM vids, among other things.

5

Tuesday, March 19th 2013, 5:30pm

Crit mdam foods (dinner of Gods and sausage) + garlic bread are great too :). But HoTs don t crit, so we have a problem if you are d/s

6

Tuesday, March 19th 2013, 6:39pm

If u really see a difference on fountain with and without wisdom - that means you're still not have enough wisdom to reach the cap, and it's probably good to reach it because fountain is the most important spell - that's why you wanna reach with hero pot.

So like the quoted thing said the cap is somewhere around 13k, maybe a bit more, so in a endgame situation you need around 11k wisdom on your gear - buff with hero +20% and few % from druid buffs and you're safe. if your pet can also give some wisdom then u need less, for example 10-10.5k wisdom on gear. or if you have a lot of wisdom cards :) etc

And of course if u need less wisdom on gear thats a good thing, because in that place you can put more stamina/hp/def in your stats. and for that reason the will to stop is better then jenny's heart - the 800 wisdom that it gives, that means u can now put 800 more stamina on your gear for example.

And even if you're d/s going for max wisdom is a big big mistake, trust me I tried. I wanted it to work, I was really really excited that I will be making the big healing arrows and camellia ticks etc like the famous druid in the tosh 5man vid ^^ and that will heal everybody so good... but it just doesn't work, you're paper and nobody gonna treat you seriously, one aoe in kbn and you're dead. Now I'm still paying the price and trying to restat and get a new gear, but still kinda stuck with 16k unbuffed wisdom, and still regretting it :) (maybe in tosh days it worked, maybe in new instances some day it might work again, but right now definitely not good idea)

sorry for my english but hope I helped ^^ oh and yes use magic food, I'm d/wd and it's better, d/s also I heard much better.

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7

Tuesday, March 19th 2013, 6:41pm

How much does the amount of crit you need to stay near the 70% cap increase every level? and so long as wisdom*0.3 is less than mdam*0.5 go for the mdam?

unless you've reached decent wis levels then go for mdam I understand, but how much would the extra stamina/defense/health points make in a difference? Would it be enough to have decent survivability and keep heals within a good margin?

trying to re-educate myself raves :P

8

Tuesday, March 19th 2013, 9:15pm

Quoted from "RoMunited;593815"

How much does the amount of crit you need to stay near the 70% cap increase every level? and so long as wisdom*0.3 is less than mdam*0.5 go for the mdam?

unless you've reached decent wis levels then go for mdam I understand, but how much would the extra stamina/defense/health points make in a difference? Would it be enough to have decent survivability and keep heals within a good margin?

trying to re-educate myself raves :P


Click on my siggy and watch my gear/kiting vid to get an idea of how to stat a D/S for both wisdom and survivability. Ravestyle.

Ravesden, D/S/Wd 80/75/62
Retired. Click siggy for old RoM vids, among other things.

9

Tuesday, April 23rd 2013, 6:08am

From what I can tell based on the formulas, the only reason skills/buffs that boost outgoing heals aren't increased by the % on the tooltip is because of the Healing Power Increase. This is the only bonus to the heals that doesn't get multiplied by outgoing heal boosts. (still gets boosted by recieved heal buffs)

What this means is that for lvl 1-50 where gear has little to no HPI the outgoing heal boosts will increase heals by the % shown on the tooltip, on average. This also means that as far as TP distribution goes, maxing out skills like Healing Salve will be more effective than maxing out skills like Faith and Holy Candle for single target heals if you have a lot of HPI.

It's also interesting to note that the healing increase gained by leveling up skills is only the value on the tooltip with the % boosts. This explains why Group Heal with no TP in it can still heal for more than a leveled Urgent heal, if your wis and mdam are high enough.
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10

Tuesday, April 23rd 2013, 1:33pm

Someone asked a similar question on the priest forums, but I figured it would be good here as well.

Does anyone know the wisdom caps for healing elite skills, like D/W's Healing Wind? If possible, a list of wisdom caps for all healing skills would be a great resource to have.
~Leader and last Surviving Member of the MegaNoobs~
Megadrach ~ Priest/Warrior/Knight ~ 45/45/45 ~ Can solo PS in FA gear/stats
Drachen ~ Warrior/Rogue/Mage ~ 62/60/55 ~ Geared for lvl 60 endgame

11

Tuesday, April 23rd 2013, 6:53pm

this was from...the de forums i think? not mine..take no credit for the hard work getting all the data. sorry cant remember where exactly i got it...but all credit to wherever that may have been :o

http://www.mediafire.com/view/?vw2d8vvye9vsq5x

it got the fugly from conversions and being passed around..but it gets the point across

12

Friday, April 26th 2013, 12:37pm

Any clue how the heal formula works with something like the P/W lvl 45 elite Condensed Rage?

According to http://runesofmagic.gamepedia.com/Priest_Elite_Skills
Instantly lets you enter Condensed Rage state for 900.0 seconds. When attacked in this state you recover 50.0 HP (+4.5/lvl). (Requires Battle Monk Stance) (After the effect has ended it cannot be triggered again for 30.0 seconds.)


It seems like it's a burst heal, but it doesn't have a cast time? assumed 1 second cast? Does it get plugged into the heal formula at all?

Also, as silly as it might sound to talk about a P/W stacking enough wisdom to be concerned with a wisdom cap, any idea what it might be for this skill? It could be easy enough to test if there are any high wisdom Priests out there with a warrior 3rd class, or something like that.

Just wondering because an instant self heal with no GCD every 30 seconds seems pretty nice.
~Leader and last Surviving Member of the MegaNoobs~
Megadrach ~ Priest/Warrior/Knight ~ 45/45/45 ~ Can solo PS in FA gear/stats
Drachen ~ Warrior/Rogue/Mage ~ 62/60/55 ~ Geared for lvl 60 endgame

Inferiority

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13

Friday, April 26th 2013, 2:34pm

I don't stack Wisdom on my P/W as I tend to get enough from the Cloth gear already. After all, I'm not a Healer - a common mistake most make when they see P/anything.

Quoted from "sk8rdanman;599276"

Just wondering because an instant self heal with no GCD every 30 seconds seems pretty nice.

The heal from Condensed Rage doesn't trigger every 30 seconds at all - it triggers randomly but with a 30 second cooldown and it doesn't heal by very much.

From experience, I find it triggers at the start of a fight when I don't need it meaning that I won't actually get it when I need it.

Plus, I need 30 Rage to be able to enter the Condensed Rage state in the first place.
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14

Friday, April 26th 2013, 4:48pm

Yeah, IIRC it heals for a minimal amount
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15

Friday, April 26th 2013, 10:52pm

So does it seem to get effected by the heal formula or not? It occurs to me that since it doesn't have a cast time, maybe only the HP on the tooltip gets calculated in, as the heal bonus from wisdom and mdam will ultimately get multiplied by 0 in the forumla. This would explain why it "Doesn't heal by very much"

When I saw the way it scales on http://www.runesdatabase.com/skill/493038/condensed-rage I thought it looked pretty awesome, but when I checked http://runesofmagic.gamepedia.com/Priest_Elite_Skills I thought, not so much. I assume the latter is the current version, right?
~Leader and last Surviving Member of the MegaNoobs~
Megadrach ~ Priest/Warrior/Knight ~ 45/45/45 ~ Can solo PS in FA gear/stats
Drachen ~ Warrior/Rogue/Mage ~ 62/60/55 ~ Geared for lvl 60 endgame

16

Friday, April 26th 2013, 11:19pm

Take ur priest shiz elsewhere!

But to answer the question as hypothetically as possible, normally heals such as that would take into account your HPBI, mdmg and all the regular stuffs. Think of it as an unreliable insta proc heal every XXX seconds.

It looks like a d/wd lvl 60 elite briar heal-type thing to me, except instead of proc'ing every 7-8 or so seconds, it procs minimum every 30 seconds (as long as you are getting hit). By the looks of the description...I wouldn't invest too much into it. More supplemental than anything.

Ravesden, D/S/Wd 80/75/62
Retired. Click siggy for old RoM vids, among other things.

17

Friday, April 26th 2013, 11:58pm

Quoted from "Ravesden;599339"

Take ur priest shiz elsewhere!


I figured even though this thread is on druid forums, because it specifically addresses the function of healing skills, any healing ability was relevant to the conversation. :P
~Leader and last Surviving Member of the MegaNoobs~
Megadrach ~ Priest/Warrior/Knight ~ 45/45/45 ~ Can solo PS in FA gear/stats
Drachen ~ Warrior/Rogue/Mage ~ 62/60/55 ~ Geared for lvl 60 endgame

18

Tuesday, April 30th 2013, 8:37pm

Quoted from "sk8rdanman;599341"

I figured even though this thread is on druid forums, because it specifically addresses the function of healing skills, any healing ability was relevant to the conversation. :P

"druid healing - wis and damage" ;)

Ravesden, D/S/Wd 80/75/62
Retired. Click siggy for old RoM vids, among other things.

19

Tuesday, April 30th 2013, 10:58pm

Quoted from "Ravesden;599699"

"druid healing - wis and damage" ;)


Gtfo. Priest skills are just as important.....

Aren't they? QQ. /Ragequitreroll
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20

Wednesday, May 1st 2013, 1:53am

UH wis cap ~2-4k, GH wis cap ~7-8k. Get a wand/shield (or a staff, but not really needed) and ur good 2 go as a priest.

Priest skills. Wat skillz.

Ravesden, D/S/Wd 80/75/62
Retired. Click siggy for old RoM vids, among other things.