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Cike

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41

Saturday, April 6th 2013, 10:42pm

not even for 2ndary? no scout/noony?
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

42

Saturday, April 6th 2013, 11:15pm

Quoted from "Mamn00n;596782"

Nope, sorry but i'm very selfish. I keep all of me to myself at all times. No sharezies


Actually, he is really selfish. What you don't realize is his class combo is actually Noony/Ghostwolf ... he is so selfish he stoled part of my awesome too ‹⊙▂⊙›
Formerly known as GhostWolf.
AddOn: Auto Ding
AddOn: DIY Combat Engine v2

mnkmurphy885

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43

Sunday, April 7th 2013, 2:05am

S/Wd shouldn't be the only viable scout combo though.

It's stupid enough to have a class that's subpar dps in general, but making the one decent example a reason not to fiddle with the class would be even worse. If even r/m can be viable dps, why not s/r? S/W? I can see there being a major issue with PvP, but... let's face it, there's a serious problem with PvP, and OP scouts are just the tip of the iceberg.

Welcome to being the one melee class that sucks as hard as mage, Noony.

Both can be viable if you choose the right (and only decent) subclass- assuming your gear is INSANE. And don't expect any sustained dps, so you better burn. Like being a rogue or a warmage, only for more gear investment for less payoff.

I just hope RW someday learns the lesson that BALANCE =/= NERFS.

*holds breath*







*dies*
Formerly Fandreith, currently Fanndreith, 90 Hunter
World First solo Amboriar
Paz on mages: i have full and complete faith blizzard will keep us fail and balanced.

Cike

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44

Sunday, April 7th 2013, 2:08am

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;596802"

S/Wd shouldn't be the only viable scout combo though.

It's stupid enough to have a class that's subpar dps in general, but making the one decent example a reason not to fiddle with the class would be even worse. If even r/m can be viable dps, why not s/r? S/W? I can see there being a major issue with PvP, but... let's face it, there's a serious problem with PvP, and OP scouts are just the tip of the iceberg.

Welcome to being the one melee class that sucks as hard as mage, Noony.

Both can be viable if you choose the right (and only decent) subclass- assuming your gear is INSANE. And don't expect any sustained dps, so you better burn. Like being a rogue or a warmage, only for more gear investment for less payoff.

I just hope RW someday learns the lesson that BALANCE =/= NERFS.

*holds breath*







*dies*


+1

*dies also*
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

45

Sunday, April 7th 2013, 2:12am

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;596802"

S/Wd shouldn't be the only viable scout combo though.

It's stupid enough to have a class that's subpar dps in general, but making the one decent example a reason not to fiddle with the class would be even worse. If even r/m can be viable dps, why not s/r? S/W? I can see there being a major issue with PvP, but... let's face it, there's a serious problem with PvP, and OP scouts are just the tip of the iceberg.

Welcome to being the one melee class that sucks as hard as mage, Noony.

Both can be viable if you choose the right (and only decent) subclass- assuming your gear is INSANE. And don't expect any sustained dps, so you better burn. Like being a rogue or a warmage, only for more gear investment for less payoff.

I just hope RW someday learns the lesson that BALANCE =/= NERFS.

*holds breath*







*dies*


S/wdn isn't the only viable scout, it's just the best. S/R is pretty good if you can get vamps. And that's definitely not a Scout specific issue. Every class has only a few strong combos really.

Mage: M/W, M/wd, to an extent M/S, gonna put W/M here cause it doesn't really fit with Warrior.
Priest: P/K, P/S healwise, according to Fan P/R but never seen one
Warden: Wd/s, Wd/w dps/tank
Knight: K/P, K/S
Druid: D/S, D/wd and D/w to an extent
Warrior: W/wdn, w/k for pvp only
Scout: S/wdn, S/r, S/K for pvp only
Rogue: R/wdn, R/M, R/S

So as you can see it's really not *just* Scouts that are messed up with only having one/two viable combos. That's a game issue. Aren't we all used to it by now? "Roll the best combination for your class or accept that you're not going to do as well as another."
Borella - 100 W/M/S/R/P/K
VVV
If you play P/K in instances you're garbage


mnkmurphy885

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46

Sunday, April 7th 2013, 2:36am

You left out w/r, and.. yeah about the only bad warrior combos are war/druid and war/priest. Even w/s is viable- just less astonishing than the other warrior combos, so why bother?

I would personally argue that s/r is barely marginally viable, unless you are in a party with a ton of other /s's, and that's getting harder and harder to find. S/R is so sad that it's not even worth an invite for sapping anymore. S/wd is the only combo worth playing, as is m/w. M/S and m/wd are one-trick ponies. Marginally viable at best. M/wd is the class you play in a burn fight for giggles, not for realsies. M/s is... really good at trash. Yay.

The main dps classes should have at least two good dps class combos each. Warrior just gets an unfair advantage (as usual).
Formerly Fandreith, currently Fanndreith, 90 Hunter
World First solo Amboriar
Paz on mages: i have full and complete faith blizzard will keep us fail and balanced.

47

Sunday, April 7th 2013, 2:42am

Quoted from "mnkmurphy885;596809"

You left out w/r, and.. yeah about the only bad warrior combos are war/druid and war/priest. Even w/s is viable- just less astonishing than the other warrior combos, so why bother?

I would personally argue that s/r is barely marginally viable, unless you are in a party with a ton of other /s's, and that's getting harder and harder to find. S/R is so sad that it's not even worth an invite for sapping anymore. S/wd is the only combo worth playing, as is m/w. M/S and m/wd are one-trick ponies. Marginally viable at best. M/wd is the class you play in a burn fight for giggles, not for realsies. M/s is... really good at trash. Yay.

The main dps classes should have at least two good dps class combos each. Warrior just gets an unfair advantage (as usual).


Warrior doesn't get an advantage over anybody.. they're one of the hardest classes to play well, and even they only have 1-2 viable dps combinations. We're not going to count W/M as a warrior cause they're.. W/M's.

W/r is.. meh. Viable, but not amazing dps. W/wdn is so much better. It's the same throughout most of the classes. One class combination is pretty definitively better than any other. S/wdn > all scouts. W/wdn > all warriors. M/W (w/m) > All mages. Wd/s (Wd/w and Wd/s are blurry on which is really better) > all wardens.

Technically mages are all viable, since they can all spam the flame button. M/W is just, better cause of the extras they get. And M/W isn't even the best for longer fights such as sixth boss KBH since they pretty much suck after burn.

Again, it's a game problem, not a scout or mage specific problem.
Borella - 100 W/M/S/R/P/K
VVV
If you play P/K in instances you're garbage


48

Sunday, April 7th 2013, 5:34am

Quoted from "Borella;596811"

Warrior doesn't get an advantage over anybody.. they're one of the hardest classes to play well, and even they only have 1-2 viable dps combinations. We're not going to count W/M as a warrior cause they're.. W/M's.


W/M is a warrior though, not a mage. Just like the P/S who wore mage gear were priests and not mages. The class is the class, no matter what gear u put on it.

By your definitions, what would you call a p/w...well, besides useless
Quaffy - 87 Mage/ 85 Priest/ 70 Scout (formerly one of the much hated P/S in PvP :()
Heavensfury, Govinda
KilledbyBorella February 15, 2012

Mamn00n

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49

Sunday, April 7th 2013, 7:01pm

Quoted from "Borella;596805"

S/wdn isn't the only viable scout, it's just the best. S/R is pretty good if you can get vamps. And that's definitely not a Scout specific issue. Every class has only a few strong combos really.

Mage: M/W, M/wd, to an extent M/S, gonna put W/M here cause it doesn't really fit with Warrior.
Priest: P/K, P/S healwise, according to Fan P/R but never seen one
Warden: Wd/s, Wd/w dps/tank
Knight: K/P, K/S
Druid: D/S, D/wd and D/w to an extent
Warrior: W/wdn, w/k for pvp only
Scout: S/wdn, S/r, S/K for pvp only
Rogue: R/wdn, R/M, R/S

So as you can see it's really not *just* Scouts that are messed up with only having one/two viable combos. That's a game issue. Aren't we all used to it by now? "Roll the best combination for your class or accept that you're not going to do as well as another."


Well, while that's mostly true, the issue here is, that only 1 scout combo is viable. And even then it's barely viable. And even more then it's a selfishly viable scout.

Here's what I mean:

S/wd is the only real viable scout class. After the short while i've been looking into it, this is true. The only reason any other scout class is viable is because they support other roles. Scout is not a support class, this does not make them viable.

And s/wd is a selfish scout, which is why i don't really enjoy it, because s/wd does not give any benefits to other players. I think the only reason s/wd is viable, is because RW was too stupid to figure out a way to nerf them to a standard of other scouts.

The issue is simple, if you took a scout/nothing vs any other class with no secondary, the scout would fail to every class. I'll bet my books on it.
Username: Mamnoony
Regardless of what you deem possible, you will Reap what you Sow.
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Cike

Rogue

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50

Sunday, April 7th 2013, 7:09pm

Quoted from "Mamn00n;596922"

Well, while that's mostly true, the issue here is, that only 1 scout combo is viable. And even then it's barely viable. And even more then it's a selfishly viable scout.

Here's what I mean:

S/wd is the only real viable scout class. After the short while i've been looking into it, this is true. The only reason any other scout class is viable is because they support other roles. Scout is not a support class, this does not make them viable.

And s/wd is a selfish scout, which is why i don't really enjoy it, because s/wd does not give any benefits to other players. I think the only reason s/wd is viable, is because RW was too stupid to figure out a way to nerf them to a standard of other scouts.

The issue is simple, if you took a scout/nothing vs any other class with no secondary, the scout would fail to every class. I'll bet my books on it.

s/d or s/p, great utility scout classes, very underestimated...

the new s/d elite makes it semi-viable as support(focus, energy, rage, mana regen) as well as party damage mitigation and aggro reduction for 2nd highest on aggro table, along with cleanse, antidote, and a root remover..

s/p gets some nice party buffs...(vamp transform, the attack speed one, crit increase, cleanse, little shield thing), and another aggro control skill

but yeah, u do like 1/2 the dps of a s/wdn

Mamn00n

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51

Sunday, April 7th 2013, 9:09pm

Quoted from "Cike;596924"

s/d or s/p, great utility scout classes, very underestimated...

the new s/d elite makes it semi-viable as support(focus, energy, rage, mana regen) as well as party damage mitigation and aggro reduction for 2nd highest on aggro table, along with cleanse, antidote, and a root remover..

s/p gets some nice party buffs...(vamp transform, the attack speed one, crit increase, cleanse, little shield thing), and another aggro control skill

but yeah, u do like 1/2 the dps of a s/wdn


Yes, your right, however most of these buffs do not stack with party members' buffs. The buffs a s/p gives overwrite other buffs. Currently, i'm too lazy to check what elites they are, but I know they overwrite more important buffs for the group, and are less effective.
Username: Mamnoony
Regardless of what you deem possible, you will Reap what you Sow.
:monster:

Cike

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52

Sunday, April 7th 2013, 9:40pm

Quoted from "Mamn00n;596934"

Yes, your right, however most of these buffs do not stack with party members' buffs. The buffs a s/p gives overwrite other buffs. Currently, i'm too lazy to check what elites they are, but I know they overwrite more important buffs for the group, and are less effective.


yup, which is part of the reason nobody wants them...
WTB non-overwriting party buffs

53

Sunday, April 7th 2013, 9:51pm

Support classes aren't viable until boss fights are much much harder/longer.

Class combos don't need to be the best in order to be viable. There are many more that can go on Borella's list if it is expanded to viable dps/tank/whatever (almost every class combo can qualify as viable imo people just don't play them or play them right).

Scouts need a bit of a buff to dps% on skills at a minimum.

Cike

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54

Sunday, April 7th 2013, 9:53pm

WTB serenity back in game

55

Sunday, April 7th 2013, 9:55pm

I still have Serenity on my skill bar.
To remind me of good times...

I have "Ice Blade" on my skill bar too now.
Oh what this game was and what it has become.

Mamn00n

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56

Sunday, April 7th 2013, 10:00pm

Quoted from "tyrr;596942"

I still have Serenity on my skill bar.
To remind me of good times...


Same here.

Quoted

Scouts need a bit of a buff to dps% on skills at a minimum.


They already decided scouts had too much of that, and that they needed to be at this low % after chapter 3. So I don't think that's going to fix anything, saying "oh, could you just reverse what you did to make it underpowered please?" They don't really work that way.
Username: Mamnoony
Regardless of what you deem possible, you will Reap what you Sow.
:monster:

57

Tuesday, April 9th 2013, 8:49pm

Quoted from "Mamn00n;596943"

Same here.



They already decided scouts had too much of that, and that they needed to be at this low % after chapter 3. So I don't think that's going to fix anything, saying "oh, could you just reverse what you did to make it underpowered please?" They don't really work that way.


Point was they took too much of a hit. I think even you would agree with that, hence why you started this thread in the first place. They need a buff to dps. Honestly, if they had just fixed the player dex vs target dex defense and worked from there, scouts would be at a much better position right now. Instead they fixed that, and lowered the dps on....everything.

Ravesden, D/S/Wd 80/75/62
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Mamn00n

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58

Wednesday, April 10th 2013, 3:18am

Quoted from "Ravesden;597172"

Point was they took too much of a hit. I think even you would agree with that, hence why you started this thread in the first place. They need a buff to dps. Honestly, if they had just fixed the player dex vs target dex defense and worked from there, scouts would be at a much better position right now. Instead they fixed that, and lowered the dps on....everything.


Right, I understand your point, but how many times can you recall them making a bad decision on something, and then actually rerolling it?

Personally, I can't recall any off the top of my head. I know there have been some, by memory, but I can't recall what for.

They did mess up a lot on the skills DPS % yes, I agree, I just highly doubt they're going to go back to where it was. I also think that how they tried to make snipe a rotation skill was a big mistake. But I shifted the odds of them changing it out of mind, and am trying to think of more likely solutions they would do.
Username: Mamnoony
Regardless of what you deem possible, you will Reap what you Sow.
:monster:

yodased

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59

Wednesday, April 10th 2013, 1:52pm

Quoted from "Mamn00n;597220"

Right, I understand your point, but how many times can you recall them making a bad decision on something, and then actually rerolling it?

Personally, I can't recall any off the top of my head. I know there have been some, by memory, but I can't recall what for.



% based mana

Mamn00n

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60

Wednesday, April 10th 2013, 2:44pm

Quoted from "yodased;597245"

% based mana


If I call right, the entire community rejected this immediately, even non mana users, and it still took them a week to decide to reroll it.

However, I may be wrong, and it may have taken 3 days or less. My memory is not the sharpest.
Username: Mamnoony
Regardless of what you deem possible, you will Reap what you Sow.
:monster: