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damage issue in hard modes

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viper8164

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Tuesday, May 7th 2013, 6:19pm

damage issue in hard modes

I have a wl/ch on govinda fully endgame statted(can buff to 200kma). I have noticed that my damage is great in the easy, and normal mode instances. Although once I go into the hard mode instances it drops dramatically. I can keep up with equally geared mages in the easy and norm modes. In hard modes i drop to round 1/4 of what a mage can do. I know the mdef of the bosses is much higher in hard but that shouldnt prevent me from keeping up with a mage with the same ma buffed. Has any other warlock noticed this issue in the hardmode instances. If so can we please get a fix for this.

RhazeCain

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Tuesday, May 7th 2013, 8:44pm

Just a thought: Any chance this is because (or partly because) the fights are longer in hard? Burst vs. sustained.

An interesting comparison would be to say "Mage Flame does X dmg in Normal mode, and Y dmg in Hard mode. X:Y ratio." Then do the same for whatever your main Warlock dmg spell is. If the Warlock ratio is much steeper, then there's the problem.

ghostwolf82

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Tuesday, May 7th 2013, 11:31pm

Wl/C is nothing but a sustainable DPS class. There really isn't a "burst" phase for it, it's constantly doing max DPS. So this sounds like some sort of a fix is needed then.

viper8164

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Wednesday, May 8th 2013, 8:18am

ive tested with many different skills and comparing damage and it just seems like something is wrong with the scaling. my main comparison is with a mage that buffs to 150k ma while with my int psi buff i get 200k and still cant sustain good dmg. some fights r so short i dont get to do much but in longer fights it just seems that i cant keep up even after all the cooldowns r burned. my biggest concern is that all dwarf skills have that target strength stuff added to skills. makes me wonder if its getting decreased so much because the bosses have so much mdef. this is unfair though since only dwarfs have that added saying on skills. all i know is in the end i have full od kbnh gear and spent a lot of time statting my wl to only find out that no matter what i try to do or how much ma i add nothing changes. i went in with 150k ma buffed an my skills r doing the same amount of damage as when i have 200k ma 50k ma should make quite a bit of a difference in my opinion. any moderators that view this forum could you please report this to RW. ive already sent in a few tickets with no response

pazuzzu

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Wednesday, May 8th 2013, 10:07am

kbn bosses start at 252k mdef for boss 1, 242k b2, 308k boss 3 etc...which is pretty stiff.

its hard to compare different combos but any gain in mattack under that mdef should be 1:1 gain in dmg. if you're below with ma foods then mdmg food generally gives a better return. or better yet, try both and see. could be differences in buffing?

but if you're comparing to like m/w...its the elites that get the dmg boost seen in their scruts. intensification is total fail except in m/w where it gives what, like 26% crit dmg boost now? and the aggro skill dmg buff... things like that really add up. it may be just the dwarf combo needs a little more tweaking...or just a ton of elites/ironblood will type stuff adding up...or jusst...rom at the moment

try and buff over the mdef point and see what happens..be interesting to see how wl scales. 6%, p/s buff, m/p, hell sigil farm but that adds the %dmg too. boss1 exactly is:252,290mdef @ 35% magic crit resist

viper8164

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Wednesday, May 8th 2013, 5:23pm

i dont even try to compare to m/w lol but ive ran with mdmg foods also and there wasnt a change in my dmg. at least nothin significant. when it comes down to farmin a sigil b4 boss its rather hard to get that just bc others in run get it b4 me since they are actually doin strong dmg. otherwise its nearly impossible for me to buff above the mdef cap, not enough skills that add int/ma without gettin a sigil. but what bugs me is that a m/wd non burn phase flame still does more dmg that me with less ma than i have. on a 100mil hp boss when im only getting like 2-3mil dmg done isnt right esp since i have more ma than most in my guild. while i see a mage with less ma do 9-10mil dmg in same amount of time

ghostwolf82

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Wednesday, May 8th 2013, 5:56pm

I have a feeling the dwarf class is gimped with that "Damage goes down" crap.

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Wednesday, May 8th 2013, 7:09pm

Did he use Mages as examples of sustainable damage? Not sure what game you guys talking about...

Garmulan

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Wednesday, May 8th 2013, 7:32pm

Well for 1 Fire damage got a buff before chapter 5 was released, at least the mobs did but I think it was overall. 2. Flame has a chance of explosion so they get more damage. Unless you are a Wl/mage you don't get added fire damage I think. So maybe try rolling that if you want the dps. Like the psychic arrows get added fire damage + fire ward gives +% fire damage.

NOTE: Wl/ch -> Energy Influx strike uses 30 rage?? Normally it uses 25 on champ. Is this a error b/c i don't recall seeing it in the tooltips.

ghostwolf82

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Wednesday, May 8th 2013, 7:52pm

Quoted from "Garmulan;600421"

Well for 1 Fire damage got a buff before chapter 5 was released, at least the mobs did but I think it was overall. 2. Flame has a chance of explosion so they get more damage. Unless you are a Wl/mage you don't get added fire damage I think. So maybe try rolling that if you want the dps. Like the psychic arrows get added fire damage + fire ward gives +% fire damage.

NOTE: Wl/ch -> Energy Influx strike uses 30 rage?? Normally it uses 25 on champ. Is this a error b/c i don't recall seeing it in the tooltips.


The problem you have missed is that as a Wl/C he is keeping up with the mages up until hard mode. If you go into hard mode, then and only then does he drop below the mages he is running with. Mathematically, in normal settings, the mage and warlock should drop at the same static rate roughly, but this is not what he is experiencing. This is due, IMO, to the drop that ONLY warlocks experience in damage, which is really unfair to warlocks. This is kind of how mages felt all through chapter 3, relegated to running non-endgame content to be effective.

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Danjuro

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Wednesday, May 8th 2013, 9:03pm

Sounds more like a warlock damage problem. We have a m/wl in our guild that used to be a wl/m, and could buff to 200k matk easily but, when he swapped to m/wl he does much more dps with a third of the magical attack he had on warlock.
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Amberwave

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Wednesday, May 8th 2013, 11:22pm

Throwing darts here, but most of a Warlocks damage is Dark, this may play some part as well.

viper8164

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Wednesday, May 8th 2013, 11:27pm

i was curious bout my dmg being all dark to. would be nice to know what the bosses resistances are an for all i know in hard modes the boss dark resist is so high none of my skills hit through but either way there is a definite issue with the dmg

sskilla

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Wednesday, May 8th 2013, 11:42pm

Quoted from "Danjuro;600428"

Sounds more like a warlock damage problem. We have a m/wl in our guild that used to be a wl/m, and could buff to 200k matk easily but, when he swapped to m/wl he does much more dps with a third of the magical attack he had on warlock.


The M/Wl might have the 70 elite? I haven't looked at my dps much, but M/lock seems to have a lot of front end burst during burn. Lock/M is more sustained damage.

With OP, I think Locks are a bit under-powered now and it probably has something to do with the intelligence multiplier on skills that works differently end game than Mage's damage formula with equipment.

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Mrpushpop

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Thursday, May 9th 2013, 2:42am

Quoted from "sskilla;600438"

The M/Wl might have the 70 elite? I haven't looked at my dps much, but M/lock seems to have a lot of front end burst during burn. Lock/M is more sustained damage.

With OP, I think Locks are a bit under-powered now and it probably has something to do with the intelligence multiplier on skills that works differently end game than Mage's damage formula with equipment.


Humm, I dont play M/Wl but as a WL/M I am able to keep up with mages in KBN hard. In fact KBN hardmode is by far my best dps in any instance due to the fact I can get more mattck than most. My weakness as a Wl/M is a 20 second fight like in Bedim. I can't compete in dps then. I have def not noticed a damage reduction in KBN. I am sure my M/Wl could do more but Im not a fan of a one move toon.

viper8164

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Thursday, May 9th 2013, 6:26am

mrpushpop whats ur ma unbuffed an buffed(and what do the mages have). im wondering if it has to do with u makin cap as u may have more ma than me. either that or your doing something different thats helping you do more dmg that maybe i havent noticed. whats your normal rotation. i know ur wl/m so skills will be different. the other question is how long do ur fights last in kbn. with my guild we norm have all bosses dead within a minute except for 3rd. the further in i go tho the more my dmg goes down on bosses 6th and 7th i barely scratch the boss at all. my biggest thing tho is in instances i can keep up with a mages burn phase or only fall behind slightly but kbn its not possible at all and still get lowest dps in tosh also

Mrpushpop

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Friday, May 10th 2013, 7:04pm

mymattck unbuffed is 92k. I noticed a huge leap in dps on warlock when skills are maxed. For instance we have so many skills that add to int that all should be maxed and max ill will and opportunity strike. FHS and soul brand need to maxed as well as puzzlement and phy arrow. Dots are not as important after the nerf but still should cast them if the fight is long enough for added damage. I also have an 80% crit rate unbuffed which helps. Ruthless J is a must after the boss hp gets low enough.

viper8164

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Sunday, May 12th 2013, 1:16am

hmm might have to reset tp but not sure if i even have enough to max skills ur crit rate is only 5% above mine an i have 88k unbuffed ma, im wondering if your damage is good because part of ur skills are fire dmg( the elites an such) which would bring us back to dark dmg being the main issue. we def do need some sort of adjustment though and really dont want to reroll wl/m just cause thats poss only combo workin atm