Runes of Magic US / AU

Wind Chop vs Untamable (Dps Skill)
WC does less dps, but is mana-based and only has GCD. Untamable does greater dps, but costs 40
focus and has a 4 sec CD. Advantage: Wd/M
The 60 elite for Wd/M breaks the skill by giving it a 3 sec CD... so now the comparison
between the two skills comes down to greater dps (Untamable) vs Mp/Focus
cost (Wind Chop). Advantage: Even

Spiritual Feedback vs Summon Chiron (Stronger Pet Skill)
SFgives Oak Walker's Sepal Stab a slight boost in SKILL damage... if it
does anything else, it's not noticeable. Chiron the Centaur is a beast,
made even stronger with additional elites. Advantage: Wd/S

Nature's Revenge vs Wind Piercing Arrow (Attack Speed Buff)
NR gives a 50% boost to Nature Crystal's buffs, giving an 8% speed and 15%
hp shield to the party. WPA gives a speed boost for the Warden only
that stacks 5 times for a max of 25% speed. Wd/S is able to get this
speed buff by using his best pet; Wd/M must limit himself to using NC if
he wants this speed buff. Additionally, Wd/S is able to use NC (though
he never should) to get the speed/hp boost as well, so the actual boost
Wd/M gets from the elite is only 3% speed and 5% hp shield. Advantage:
Wd/S

Wild Offensive vs Forest Surround (Pet Attack Speed Buff)
WO gives Explosion of Power an additional speed boost (only for white
hits, not for Sepal Stab) and lowers the CD to 60 secs... meaning pet
can keep this on 50% of the time. FS gives a cast speed boost to
Chiron's Arrow skills (not white hits)... and can keep this on 100% of
the time since it's a Passive Skill. Advantage: Wd/S

Oak Blessing vs Valiant Shot (Attack Buff)
OB gives a 5% Attack Boost and 1%/3sec HP restore to the Warden for as
long as Heart of the Oak is active. VS gives an 8% Attack Boost to both
the Warden and Chiron for 15 secs with a 25 sec CD before it can be
activated again. At first glance, it would seem OB has the advantage
since it can theoretically be active 100% of the time; however, since it
is dependent on HotO which disappears as soon as it takes damage
twice... even if it's a DoT... it's never up for long when it actually
matters. Add in the fact that VS gives a stronger Attack Boost that
effects both the pet and master... Advantage: Wd/S

Tough Oak vs Beast Tamer (Passive Pet Buff)
TO gives a 55% Physical Defense Boost to the Pet, and lowers the CD of
Punch/Sepal Stab by 1 second. BT increases the Critical Hit Rate of the
Pet, and gives it an Evasion Boost. +55% Defense is nothing for the
paper-thin defense of Oak Walker, and the skill actually bugs Punch for
the Spirit of the Oak by negating the Attack Debuff. TO is capped at
level 50, while BT is uncapped and can potentially rise to overtake the
buff from TO with enough levels. Advantage: Even, Perhaps slight edge
to Wd/S

Pet Enhance vs Morale Boost (Damage Boost Buff)
PE gives a 30% Attack and Physical Damage Boost to the pet. MB gives a
smaller Physical and Magical Damage Boost to both the pet and the
warden, and for anyone else in the same party. Additionally, MB is
upgradeable... so with enough levels, it will eventually overtake the
Damage boost of PE. Advantage: Wd/S

Resonance of Wind vs Secret Agreement (Damage Boost Passive)
RoW lowers the CD of Power of the Oak by 5 seconds for every time Wind
Chop's magic portion activates. SA gives both the pet and Warden a 20%
permanent Physical Damage Boost. RoW actually breaks the Wd/M combo
(similar to how the 50 elite for D/S broke the combo before it was
fixed) by giving Wind Chop a 3 second CD. Even if Power of the Oak was
available to the Wd/M full time, it amounts only to 15% damage boost for
the Warden only. Wd/S has a 20% damage boost already (for both pet and
Warden), and can additionally cast PotO during burns for another 15%
damage boost. Advantage: Wd/S

Narrow Escape vs Sacrifice (Utility Skill)
NE gives Pet a free Phoenix Redemption every 20 minutes. Sac gives the
Warden a free Special Water Type D (that can be used in Siege) every 5
minutes, at the expense of immobilizing his pet for 30 secs. Advantage:
Even

Crystal Protection vs Anti Magic Arrow (Useless Skill)
CP lowers the party's Physical and Magic Damage Taken for 10 secs... as
long as the Warden uses Nature Crystal instead of his damage pet. AMA
is a Ranged Damage Skill that has a chance to restore a static amount of
MP. Advantage: Even


Wd/S outclasses Wd/M in almost every elite skill... and the only one we had an advantage in was nerfed by the
60 elite. I'm not asking to make Wd/M stronger than Wd/S... I'm not
even asking to make it even with Wd/S... just please at least make it
competitive. I understand that some class combos will naturally be
better than others for certain situations, but at the moment there is
nothing I can do with my Wd/M that my Wd/S wouldn't do even better.

A huge factor of this is the level 60 Wd/M elite Resonance of Wind. If
this could be fixed, it would at least make Wd/M playable again. Here's
a few ideas that would improve the skill:

1) Remove the CD from Wind Chop. If WC was meant to have a CD, why wait until level 60 to add it?

2) Make the magical portion of Wind Chop a 100% chance of activating.
This would enable Wd/M to at least be able to almost full time the PotO
buff... which still weaker than the Wd/S alternative.

3) Make the magical portion of Wind Chop completely reset the CD of PotO (similar
to some warlock elites). To keep it "balanced," make it so it cannot
be re-activated for 30 seconds once it has been reset.

4) All of the above. All of this together still wouldn't beat the elites Wd/S has.

5) Change the level 60 elite to something else entirely. Really, even
"Nothing" would be better than the nerf we have right now.

I love my Wd/M... I do not want to reroll to something more useful. Still, of
all the Warden Combos, Wd/M is the least played by far... please make
my class viable again.

Ignoring how useless a "Defensive Support" Role is... Wd/S could do the same job or better, while still putting out more dps.

Let's see... for defense, Wd/S Spirit of the Oak's Punch isn't bugged and will actually apply the attack down debuff. For support, Wd/S has a party buff Morale Boost that Wd/M would love to have.

But really, Cike please name one single situation where it would be better for the party to invite a Wd/M over a similiarly geared Wd/S.

When pdef is stupidly high compared to mdef... please don't tell me you expect us to gear like a mage and use fireball...

I would love that skill that you mention.. too bad it's not Wd/M.

I agree with this one... I started in Ch 2 with Wd/M, and still love it.

I never said I wanted to do OP DPS... I said I wanted to do Competitive DPS. And at least R/P can do well in siege with Holy Aura, Magic Barrier, and all the other goodies get gets with the priest Subclass... and that's not even touching whatever elites it gets.

I agree that Oak Walker has potential to rival Chiron. To answer your inquiry about Spiritual Feedback, look at Sepal Stab in your Skills list and compare the damage between Wd/M and Wd/S. Sepal Stab's skill damage on Wd/M should be higher than if you change classes to Wd/S and compare. If SF does something else as well, I'm not aware of it.

Something else you might not realize... Oak Walker's "bonus" Sepal Stabs still cost energy. Once it reaches 0, no more extra Stabs until it replenishes. Before the CD on Wind Chop was added, it was quite easy to drain its energy (and quite a lot of fun to see). Now, it's still possible to get enough criticals to drain its energy, but quite a bit harder.

I wanted to keep this a comparison of the 2 combo's elite skills... so I didn't mention the comparison of general skills, nor the fact that Wd/S has an extra bow slot to use as a stat stick. That should more than make up for the +crit damage, not to mention that a Wd/S can also claim this +crit damage simply by using Oak Walker himself.

I do notice my Chiron's Arrows do tend to miss every so often. But Chiron also has something Wd/M will never have... Range. I can use Wd/S to "snipe" certain dangerous enemies at range (Remember balloons in RT?) That's not happening with Wd/M.