Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Ravesden"

Fire Training/Soldier's Attack, Midnight Ritual, Morale Boost (wd/s) Snipe 2% phys dmg taken effect (s/wd), Sapping Arrow/exploiting shot (s/r, or druid seeds instead of sapping), Elemental Weakness (mage), target lock 10% phys dmg increase (s/w)

theres a lot more I prolly forgot since ive been out

Elemental Extraction (m/wl) decreases mdef/def of the boss by 30% for 10 seconds.
Authoritative Deterrence (k/w) Increases all damage on the target by 41.9% for 10 seconds @ lvl 82.

By far the biggest buffs/de-buffs now. Sometimes took a k/w with 20k hp into beth just to get that de-buff to burn 6th boss lol.

I wonder if anyone ever rolled a scout to be a support class? It is like buying a Chevrolet Corvette and being given Kia Sol cute but not what you wanted to drive or paid for. In addition the amount of TP necessary to make it even a second rate support class will leave it far short of ever doing what it was designed for. The other classes designed to be support classes have far better buffs and debuffs in additions to other support class necessities like healing etc.. Now saying that Scout is a First Rate Support class is just not realistic. You are saying it is better than any other support class by calling it First rate while it does not even come close to the real support classes. The whole concept is just a fail.

You usually max shot anyways and sapping arrow only goes up to level 50. So really the amount of tp invested into "supporting" is negligible. There's no pure "supporter" in RoM. If you have a useful buff/debuff, you're a support. Healer is a total different beast tho. M/WL for example, not as bursty as M/W or M/WD but is still brought along for its debuff. Same can be said for K/W and WL/M. WL/M can actually be a typical "first rate support". 6% attributes, a ton of buffs/debuffs. We all miss chapter 3 with infinite shot spam but you just gotta get on with the changes now. There are 12 slots in a party anyways.

Quoted from "heoboy123"

WL/M can actually be a typical "first rate support". 6% attributes, a ton of buffs/debuffs.

If you are a WL/M with under 200m tp I suggest you only play the support role. Over 200m tp you start to dps at everyone else's level and you can swap to dps.


300m tp and you begin the OP era

Back to scout talk.

Why would anyone think that just because a scout has a couple of buff debuff skills it is a first rate support? It isn't the other classes have far more far better buffs and debuffs. Every class can support but it does not make them first rate. Calling a Scout a first rate support class is like calling a Corvette a first rate cargo vehicle because it has a small trunk.
Support is not the purpose of a Scout. Ranged physical damage is. Because the Scout has had its ranged physical damage nerfed to oblivion it is a fail as a class. This current patch did not fix that it did lip service to fixing the Scouts but did not really accomplish anything. Scouts still are out ranged by other classes and their dps is still far too low. Anything but a direct fix to range and damage is nothing but smoke and mirrors all illusion and no substance.

Indubitably.

As said before, making scouts a 'damage support' or a class that increases party damage would still take a complete overhaul of the scout class at a base.

And 'IF' that's what they were going for, they failed miserably.

You can understand why -A- S/R would be useful. Sure, so do I, when you have 8 rogues accompanied by a S/R they all get a substantial DPS burst for a short moment.

Say, the 8 rogues do 2million DPS. S/R accompanies and increases base DPS by 25% (I'll be kindly)

25% (of) 2M = 500K

500k x 8 = 4M + s/r DPS (250k) = 4.25M DPS increase for the -overall- battle

Which would be more valuable than having a 9th rogue (2M increase).

However, how many scouts have this ability? S/W? you think S/W is a viable swap for a rogue just for the buffs?

Same concept.

10% (of) 2M = 200k

200k x 8 = 1.6million + s/w DPS (350k) = 1.95million DPS increase

Now let's see how many other scouts have elite skills that increase party damage...

-insert tumbleweed-

So, now tell me where the concept is... that scouts are viable... just only if you play s/r in a full group of anyone else BUT scouts.

Show me the sense cuz i'd love to make dollars out of it.

I believe some of you misunderstand my position (and others of you simply can't just wrap your head around the fact that scrut Is. Not. Everything.) Scouts need some help. That much is a given. What they are *not* however, is useless.

Let me tell you that again, since you didn't understand the 1st time, don't expect you to understand the 2nd: Scrut is not everything.

My whole guild can vouch for this. I have stated many times, in Reni's top pushing parties, to the people with the best gear, the best damage, the best players in server and some in U.S.: "I don't give a *expletive* (am i doing guud Moonlighty) about your damage, as long as the boss dies."

I set up a lot of runs. To which that is the extent of all I will say on that. A couple of you with the mindset of "I need to do the most dps!" or "I need to be top scrut!", I simply would not extend an invite to. Guildy or not. If you can't come to the realization that there is more than just damage on a boss (until the whole thing is a burn, if the boss dies in under 20 seconds, who cares who did how much damage, everything past that is epeen and irrelevant, and if you link scrut showing off your damage after each fight/attempt, I also don't want you in my party), and do not see the perks in not only your "support" but also your range, your interrupts, your general ability to stay out of harm and your accessible ease in which you can do a lot of the strat, you don't belong in an end game party. And if the above describes you, and you can't understand why nobody wants you in their pushing parties, or why those mean end game guilds simply wont invite you because you're a scout...

its not because you're a scout. Its because you're close-minded, and frankly, dumb.

I'm pretty much going to end my rant here. My epeenous self has done many end game clears/server firsts/U.S. firsts and i've had to go one-on-one with numerous individuals, my head at their lack of understanding of their roles, their perks, that scrut means sh..izzles at the end of the day. Strat> all. Until you have the gear from the instance, then it doesnt even matter, bosses should be burned in 20 seconds, sometimes with a party of 5 or 6 (watch mah vidz).

And frankly, a select few of you I *know* for a fact are not end game, and rarely, if ever run at-level content. You mostly siege. So scrut matters...even less. lol

edit: if you want some anecdotal proof of my "scouts are not useless" claims check out bb's chan and the general party makeup PPK has during their pushes. Read their party chat and how they coordinate buffs/debuffs pre-boss, every boss. Theres a reason theres almost always a scout there. Maybe you'll learn something.

Ravesden is 100% correct. Indigo could not clear any endgame content for the longest time as everyone in the raid was a vanilla flavor of the month class. Finally we took the blinders off and found out how other servers clear content because we could not even with us having the number of geared players needed. Lucky for us some very nice endgamers from Pew Pew got in our Teamspeak and stressed boss debuffs/different class combos/ learning boss fights etc.. Our at that time guild of rogues shifted. Some of us changed toons, classes, we shaped new players that joined to fill in our holes. Now I am not saying Indigo is perfect but all of a sudden we cleared instance after instance on HM that no one had before. If everything is a dps race then you are spanking/tanking and failing, I know cause we been there.

Indeed. Not my intention to alienate, but if you look at the people vouching for scout's usefulness vs those who say they're useless, its those who have been/are at the top vs those who aren't. Theres a reason its like this. And its stated above.

Instances are not everything. You appear totally narrow minded only thinking of killing bosses in instances. If you check it out you will find that very few people can and do run high level instances. If you only play to do instances and gear and create skills to run instances you have missed most of the game. The problem with the Scout is it is out ranged and out dp by far too many other classes. If you are not running instances and not end game geared the Scout is at a tremendous disadvantage in PvE, PvP and seige.
I don't care how a Scout behaves or what it does in Instances I want it to be playable in all the other parts of the game. Most people can not afford the end game gear and make do with what we can make ourselves or buy castoffs. Yet every time someone tries to comment on the problems with the Scout class in the other 96% of the game out of the instances they are subject to a mindless rant about how to run instances. Which they don't care about in any way at all. We want the Scout fixed for the whole game not to be some add on in a instance group.

Quoted from "aardvark3"

Instances are not everything. You appear totally narrow minded only thinking of killing bosses in instances. If you check it out you will find that very few people can and do run high level instances. If you only play to do instances and gear and create skills to run instances you have missed most of the game. The problem with the Scout is it is out ranged and out dp by far too many other classes. If you are not running instances and not end game geared the Scout is at a tremendous disadvantage in PvE, PvP and seige.
I don't care how a Scout behaves or what it does in Instances I want it to be playable in all the other parts of the game. Most people can not afford the end game gear and make do with what we can make ourselves or buy castoffs. Yet every time someone tries to comment on the problems with the Scout class in the other 96% of the game out of the instances they are subject to a mindless rant about how to run instances. Which they don't care about in any way at all. We want the Scout fixed for the whole game not to be some add on in a instance group.

You're right. Instances aren't everything...

Yet theyre the single most influental aspect of this game in terms of gearing and the capability of your character. Its no coincidence that the top end game guilds also happen to be the top sieging guilds.

You also wouldn't be worrying about scout dmg if your arguments were solely based on PvP. PvP in RoM is a 1 hit fest regardless. Even for scouts. If it isn't, then you probably don't have gear ---> don't run instances. See where this goes?

As for the notion that I only care about PvE, quite the contrary, actually. I have made it well known to my own guildies that PvE is secondary to me. If I could be competitive in PvP without PvE, I would have. So your assumption of my "narrow-mindedness" is very, very flawed. I'm probably the most PvP fanatic healer you could come across.

Scouts are very much viable in PvP, to say otherwise is pretty ignorant. Pair a scout with some heals, and you got a moving bunker. S/W, S/Wd, S/K, S/R are all viable in PvP in their own regard.

edit: forgot to mention, S/M as well.

Quoted from "aardvark3"

Instances are not everything. You appear totally narrow minded only thinking of killing bosses in instances. If you check it out you will find that very few people can and do run high level instances. If you only play to do instances and gear and create skills to run instances you have missed most of the game. The problem with the Scout is it is out ranged and out dp by far too many other classes. If you are not running instances and not end game geared the Scout is at a tremendous disadvantage in PvE, PvP and seige.
I don't care how a Scout behaves or what it does in Instances I want it to be playable in all the other parts of the game. Most people can not afford the end game gear and make do with what we can make ourselves or buy castoffs. Yet every time someone tries to comment on the problems with the Scout class in the other 96% of the game out of the instances they are subject to a mindless rant about how to run instances. Which they don't care about in any way at all. We want the Scout fixed for the whole game not to be some add on in a instance group.

i'm serious when i ask this: why the [redacted] are you still here if you are so disappointed in the game/RW/GF?

i've been trying to figure that out for a month or so now...seriously...

Quoted from "Cike"

Quoted from "aardvark3"

Instances are not everything. You appear totally narrow minded only thinking of killing bosses in instances. If you check it out you will find that very few people can and do run high level instances. If you only play to do instances and gear and create skills to run instances you have missed most of the game. The problem with the Scout is it is out ranged and out dp by far too many other classes. If you are not running instances and not end game geared the Scout is at a tremendous disadvantage in PvE, PvP and seige.
I don't care how a Scout behaves or what it does in Instances I want it to be playable in all the other parts of the game. Most people can not afford the end game gear and make do with what we can make ourselves or buy castoffs. Yet every time someone tries to comment on the problems with the Scout class in the other 96% of the game out of the instances they are subject to a mindless rant about how to run instances. Which they don't care about in any way at all. We want the Scout fixed for the whole game not to be some add on in a instance group.

i'm serious when i ask this: why the [redacted] are you still here if you are so disappointed in the game/RW/GF?

i've been trying to figure that out for a month or so now...seriously...

Been Trying to figure this out for years :O

Aardvark: You are pretty backwards in this argument, actually. Everyone else is trying to strive for a PVE and PVP balance because both aspects of the game mutually rely on each other. You discout everything in PVE for the sake of PVP. Just because you dont enjoy it doesnt mean that PVE isnt a totally necessary aspect of this game.

PvP is a one hit fest as you say, that is the problem the mages and rogues using hide can kill any Scout before it comes into range even if it is accompanied by a healer. The rogue in hide using hide and any mage or scout skill or throw can kill a scout before it can get a shot off or even see the rogue. As the rogues range exceeds a scouts detection range. Mages have the high dp skills and range that the scout lacks with instant cast on long range skills The Scouts longest range skill snipe is crippled by a cast time long enough for any opponent to get in range and interrupt it with an instant cast skill. S/M works well because it can call on the mage skills that are longer range than the scout skills. Everything is based on how the class stacks up to other classes not how it looks by itself.
I have a Scout/Rogue/ Warden all level 82 using Scout armor, the difference in damage and survival PvP and PvE is just amazing. The Rogue is godlike even though it has only 180m tp I have gone over 40 levels without a PvE death and was able to go from level 80 to 81 without even suffering a single lost hp in PvE. Shot and Vampire arrow hit for far more damage for a Rogue using premeditation than when used by the Scout or Warden. Hide. shot, vampire arrow, shot then hide will kill anything long before they ever see you and react. The warden has 280m tp and does major damage in melee even using the same leather armor stated for a scout. The damage of shot and vampire arrow used by a warden is the same as the scout but with Cintron's additional damage and buffs makes a Scout look sad. Not to mention it will take a hit and show almost no damage. The Scout on the other hand has over 330 m tp and does less damage than either the Rogue or Warden with its own shot and vampire arrow skills and lacks the Rogues dodge and hide skills or the wardens ability to survive hits and pet. Scouts use to be glass cannons now they are glass pea shooters.
My level 82/82 mage priest is almost as powerful as the rogue with gear from a year ago and can hit a scout before it comes into range and interrupt any attempt to snipe before the scout can get the skill off if in doubt it just casts the invulnerability spell and has 5 seconds to take any hit and cast without fear.
When you have a hand full of classes the weakest one overall is the most useless. If you look at it by itself it may appear to be useful but when you compare it to the other classes it looks terrible. When you have a garage full of Mercedes the Yugo is worthless.
I play the Scout because it is a challenge and the most difficult to play but it has always been my favorite class and I have played one in many many games but nowhere has it been so badly nerfed and underpowered as here. It is a challenge to pick a weak class and play it but why does the class have to be so weak in the first place?? What is worse is there are people who want to keep it nerfed and useless and fight any suggestion to improve it.

Quoted from "aardvark3"

What is worse is there are people who want to keep it nerfed and useless and fight any suggestion to improve it.

aren't you talking about yourself?

A) of course r/s hits for the most on a single shot, premed adds 40% crit damage? thats kind of the point.
B) the point everyone made is if scout was more viable in PVE, mroe players would play it in PVP. If this game was more open to support classes, and RW made the scouts a more support heavy class, they would have a guaranteed role. If RW fixed their DPS they might have a role.
C) Cike and i have repeatedly said that the scouts need a range boost on all skills
D) No, scouts arn't useful by themselves. Thats the point. No one said they were. They pointed out areas of the scout class that could be expanded upon, and you shot them down.

Edit: Cike, go work on ur thesis.

I really hope you're not casting snipe in a 1v1 situation unless you have the hidden peril proc as a s/wd. The only other times to use snipe is when you're *not* being focused, and taking down a tanky opponent i.e. a p/k, or right out of a hide scent/gone with the wind/visual illusion as a free opener. You don't need to hit for 300k to kill a 200k hp opponent.

I also hope that when it comes to range, you can kite almost any class at 225 range with an added slow (or do people in this game still not know what "kiting" is?). Yes it does avg dmg, but you'll also be receiving little to no dmg vs most classes if you kite properly. It *is* an option.

The notion that a scout is bad due to dying to a mage - they're both ranged classes. The better skilled/faster reacting player should win, regardless of class. Both S/Wd and S/M can drop target and have temporary stealth. Everyone has access to invis pots/illusion towers. S/Wr has a ranged blanket silence (although should be increased). S/wd has a knockdown effect, which you can't even candy/cake during.

Rogue hide should have a cd of 3-5 seconds which triggers once they unstealth, even then, you'll rarely see rogues premed a shot/vamp, unless you're so oblivious that they're able to do it without your knowing.

If you're a good PvP focused scout, you'll know to build yourself with a balance of survival and attack, not one or the other. If PvP is all *you* care about, stat some survival and grab yourself a dedicated healer. THEN come back and tell me scouts are bad in PvP.

Quoted from "Ravesden"

I also hope that when it comes to range, you can kite almost any class at 225 range with an added slow (or do people in this game still not know what "kiting" is?). Yes it does avg dmg, but you'll also be receiving little to no dmg vs most classes if you kite properly. It *is* an option.

The problem is m/wd still outranges that 225 range, and a rogue can sneak up on a scout. The range of detection is shorter than the range of combo throw.

Quoted from "Ravesden"

Rogue hide should have a cd of 3-5 seconds which triggers once they unstealth, even then, you'll rarely see rogues premed a shot/vamp, unless you're so oblivious that they're able to do it without your knowing.

Id say a better solution is to increase the range of the detection skill to 250 range.

Quoted from "Ravesden"

If you're a good PvP focused scout, you'll know to build yourself with a balance of survival and attack, not one or the other. If PvP is all *you* care about, stat some survival and grab yourself a dedicated healer. THEN come back and tell me scouts are bad in PvP.

Plz stop telling people how to kill me :<

Quoted from "Ravesden"

The better skilled/faster reacting player should win, regardless of class

except thats not the case atm...

mages kill scouts due to having farther reaching instants(plus ranged CC skills, as well as a very annoying bubble), and since this is a 1 shot game...

tanks kill scouts due to having the defense to close the distance(yeah, kite all you want, but sooner or later they WILL close the distance, either due to pots/buffs, charge...etc...)

rogues kills scouts due to having higher damage attacks at range of detection(you are dead before you even see them, detection is kinda worthless atm...)

Quoted from "Ravesden"

I also hope that when it comes to range, you can kite almost any class at 225 range with an added slow (or do people in this game still not know what "kiting" is?). Yes it does avg dmg, but you'll also be receiving little to no dmg vs most classes if you kite properly. It *is* an option.

they recently buffed WA, so the damage is not so much of an issue, but with the increased use comes the dependency on focus, which is a new thing for scouts, and i foresee some issues with this...

also, i would like to point out that kiting with WA u get ~6 shots if you are at full focus, which is rare in constant pvp, and you can't even mix in other skills as the only other 225+ range instant skill for scouts(not counting elites) is piercing arrow, which is on a 4 sec CD...


as some1 who kites about everything i encounter(undergeared ftw) i will say the recent(or not so recent anymore) change that brought xbow range down by 20 was a very small pve adjustment, but a significant nerf to pvp...so now scouts have to choose between lower damage and easier kiting, or higher damage and hard kiting...




edit: i do not mean to say that scouts cannot hold their own in pvp if geared/played properly, i merely point out that just about everything a scout can do in pvp, some other class can do better(much like scouts as a whole...)...

No r/s use shot or vamp in pvp anymore, just combo throw/throw. I think the point here is every class has its niche. Scout is underpowered, yes, but not entirely useless as several people claimed in this thread. S/R excels as a debuff-er in dungeons, S/WD can do quite a lot of damage at range (which is useful in many boss fights such as Beth 7th). Not all classes are viable (only r/s, r/wd, r/m, w/r, w/m, w/wd, etc) so I guess you just have to suck it up and play either of those 2 classes as a scout. For pvp the options are endless. Detection needs a range buff (or throw needs a range nerf), but scouts inherently have a ton of instant casts. Standing in an illusion tower scouts are quite a force to reckon. There are always also invi pot and immune food. I actually love sieging as a w/m than a rogue because of how fun it is to invi/speed/candy and sweep those 3 400k healers in the back line. I can only do it every 2 minutes and often die in the process but it's totally worth it. If you truly know your class, you can make anything works.