Runes of Magic US / AU

Scout is not totally useless just more useless than any other class. Which is the point. You always waste our time by pointing out 1 time it may be useful or how to use it in a unique situation . The problem is every other class can do the same things better in far more situations. Every one else is trying to make the class useful in more situations and far more playable in the whole game and you keep bringing up the one rare situations where it may be useful even though any other class can do it better more often. You can make a Yugo work and get out and push it down the road but why would you keep prevent it from being upgraded and keep telling everyone how to push a Yugo or attach a team of horses to it but people want to drive a different car. We want the class fixed and you keep telling us how to keep a second rate class to be useful but it is still a second rate class compared to any other in the game. This is preventing them from ever fixing the class as a whole.

Quoted from "aardvark3"

The problem is every other class can do the same things better in far more situations

We are trying to tell you that this is not the case! When end game raiding a certain scout class has THE BEST BOSS DEBUFF in the game. No other class combo can give it so your statement is incorrect. People that know how to raid would rather take a scout for that debuff even if his DPS is 50% or so less than an extra R/M or W/M. I understand you are frustrated and wish scouts did more dps. However there are many different ways to play scout still.

Quoted

Scout is not totally useless just more useless than any other class. Which is the point. You always waste our time by pointing out 1 time it may be useful or how to use it in a unique situation . The problem is every other class can do the same things better in far more situations. Every one else is trying to make the class useful in more situations and far more playable in the whole game and you keep bringing up the one rare situations where it may be useful even though any other class can do it better more often. You can make a Yugo work and get out and push it down the road but why would you keep prevent it from being upgraded and keep telling everyone how to push a Yugo or attach a team of horses to it but people want to drive a different car. We want the class fixed and you keep telling us how to keep a second rate class to be useful but it is still a second rate class compared to any other in the game. This is preventing them from ever fixing the class as a whole.

Weve pointed out MANY situations where a scout is wanted. PVE in raids for debuffs, PVP if you are pvp geared, pvp hiding in visuals. Should they be better at the few things they do well? Yeah. Do most people just ignore scouts because they are used to ignoring scouts? Yup.

The problem is this: if your pve team is used to not bringing scouts, or used to only caring about DPS, then you are sol.
if you are not pvp geared, you are sol.
if you are not a scout that gives good pve debuffs, you are probably sol.

This is disgusting.

Scouts are gimped, don't deny it, it's true.

If you disagree with me, then you disagree with my guide on how to fix scouts.

If you can't find a reasonable fix for scouts, just stop now.

1 class combination is nothing.

If r/druid was the only viable combination for rogue you'd be saying the same things? r/d has the BEST of this one thing. Therefore it is viable. GG

Quoted from "Mamn00n"

This is disgusting.

Scouts are gimped, don't deny it, it's true.

If you disagree with me, then you disagree with my guide on how to fix scouts.

If you can't find a reasonable fix for scouts, just stop now.

1 class combination is nothing.

If r/druid was the only viable combination for rogue you'd be saying the same things? r/d has the BEST of this one thing. Therefore it is viable. GG

GFDI, Read. No one said they werent. We found things scouts were good at and were looking to find resonable ways to expand on it. Im sorry that we dident give up and say scouts are worthless, QQ Reroll. If thats what you want to do, GTFO. In the mean time, the rest of the boards will try to find ways to find what scouts do well, expand on them, and fix whats broken.

Im tired of peoples spewing, going around yelling AH YOU FOUND SOMETHING THATS OK ABOUT A BROKEN CLASS AND ARE DISCUSSING IT YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT THIS CLASS IS SO BROKEN NOTHING IS GOOD ABOUT IT. Get out and stop wasting my time.

FIND whats good. FIND whats broken. EXPAND on both.

Removed profanity. Take a chill pill, 'mmkay? -- Kalvan

Quoted from "Darwec"

FIND whats good. FIND whats broken. EXPAND on both.

while i am probably one of the most vocal people about how scouts are gimped, i have to agree with darwec on this. while having a class that does consistently lower dps than others is simply demoralizing, there are a few exceptions in which some of the scout combos excel. s/m for instance is an excellent aoe dps, while s/r is a great support. the porblem is the fact that as a whole, when you include all the different combos, the scout is weaker than other classes. yes, other classes have a few crap combos, but the rest are at least somewhat viable. when you have the minority that are actually viable, and only for a specific purpose, that is where the issue is. if you took a scout with no 2ndary class an matched it up against any other class with no secondary, the scout would lose. as much as elites are supposed to build and define a combo, having specific elites define the entire class is a problem...

Quoted from "Darwec"

FIND whats good. FIND whats broken. EXPAND on both.

lol.

This, is my all-together round-a-bout-fix on Scouts. If even just a few of these Idea's are implemented, in some way, I'd be very grateful as scouts, currently blow.

Numero Uno.

Line of Sight (LOS). Currently, LOS is currently coming from the opposite point of the body that it needs to be coming from. This needs to be changed to at least follow the arrow on the bow. I understand that it should not come from the eyes, as you do not shoot your bow from your eyes. But It should at least come from waist level (where your bow hangs) or chest level (where you shoot your bow from).
This, would honestly be a quite easy fix, this really would not fix the DPS issue, but we'll get to that later. This is just a common problem with scouts that needs to be fixed.

Numero Dos.

Autoshot Passive Buff

This Idea was given to me by Amberwave. The idea was that autoshot added a debuff to the target, that increased scout damage. I have modified this idea however, to more properly fit the task.
A new Scout Class-specific skill, obtained after Target Area. My preferred name for this skill, "Steady Aim" This skill is simply passive, and can be level up to 50. The skill would work like this: Steady Aim improves your Autoshot, as you hit consecutively with autoshot, you gain a buff that lasts for 5 seconds (at level 1, the buff length lasts -0.06s per level (2s at level 50) Stacking up to 20 times. Each stack increases your Ranged Weapon Damage by 0.25% (at level 1, increases by 0.025% per level (1.5% at level 50) X .001% accuracy (does not change and is not affected by stack).

So, as a fair example, at level 50 this means if your accuracy is 15k (a fair bit more than most high level rogues and scouts I asked's accuracy), and your Ranged Weapon Damage is 10K at 20 stacks you'd get a total of 1.5% (of) 10,000 = 150 X .001x(15,000x20% = 18,000) (1 2700 Ranged Weapon Damage. A fair increase in damage for scouts.

If you are to really look at this skill, it would add usefulness to bows so that you can maintain this buff for a longer time, but still able to get max stacks with a crossbow at full buffs. So crossbows would then do more burst damage, and bows would then do more sustained damage. As well as you look at this skill, it adds more bonus for scouts to actually use accuracy, instead of to hit other scouts and rogues. This would also fix the damage problem quite successfully.

This would also be a null for scouts in siege war, as they are already pretty good at PvP, this skill would be quite worthless.

Numero Tres.

Skill % DPS Reworks.

Although I feel this will not be implemented at all, I have gone through serious brainwork to figure out how to balance scouts, by once again changing the skills % DPS bases (this time, at a balanced rate)

I'll go through all the skills with this, starting with Shot.

Shot is increased by 2.4% per level, starting at 40%. While I agree with 2.4% being a fair increase of damage, I believe the only change should be that the base should be 40% higher. A 40% increase in base damage will mean less as you level up, however, the usefulness of the skill will be more than just a "filler" between cooldowns.

Vampire arrows again, has a good increase of 3.3% per level, starting at 55%. Again, I agree that the increase is fair, but it should have a base of 100% damage. My reason being that vampire arrows is still quite a worthless skill, it's only used because it's just slightly less useless than Shot. I believe the skill should be one that scouts would want to use the moment it's off cooldown, and this should do just that.

Joint blow does it's job. While it's rarely used, it has it's purpose, and it's just fine.

Blood arrow was redone well. I will not disagree with it's current status.

Throat Attack also does it's job, it's not made to do damage, it has it's purpose, and it's just fine.

Swiftness is just as fair as all of the other stat increasing skills. I will not disagree.

Speed shooting has never been changed, and is just fine as well.

Onto Scout Class-specific Skills

Wind arrows, this skill has become entirely worthless. As shot costs no focus, has more DPS even now, and a greater % increase per level. Wind Arrows needs a definite fix. While the skill's only advantage over shot is that it is instant, it has more disadvantages as most scouts can get shot down to a 1 second cooldown, or an instant (GCD .5s) cooldown. Wind arrows should be an equal base % DPS as shot, as well as an equal % DPS increase per level.

Ranged Weapon mastery is significantly lower than all other weapon masteries. The Ranged accuracy is nearly worthless as it is. The 20% accuracy increase, I'm fine with, but another 10-15% damage increase would be sufficient.

Mana drain shot, I like the change they made to this, however, it would actually be used if it had some real damage on it. With the 1 minute and 30 second cooldown, It should at least do a hefty amount of damage for your time, and that extra key on your skillbar. Perhaps a base RWDPS of 120% and an increase of 5.2% per level as opposed to 3.6%

EDIT ~ After more testing, the 1 minute and 30 second cooldown is absurd. The cooldown should be reduced to at a maximum of 20 seconds. Preferably the cooldown should be 10 seconds, which is the length of the debuff. The debuff itself is really only useful in PvP situations that I can see. And even should it be used in PvP, the % Mdam reduction would be quite worthless in PvE as almost all of PvE is physical based.

As well as there needs to be a range increase to 220 with xbows and 230 with bows.

Lasso does it's job, I see no issues with this.

Piercing Arrow is still quite balanced. No issues.

Eagle Eyes is also just fine as is.

Snipe, While I like the big % damage increase, and agree with it currently, they're idea to make it a skill used in combat was a failure. It is a skill used for hitting high, pulling mobs with a big bang, and 1 shotting. This skill should not be viable for midfight use.

Combo shot needs some rework as well Not by much, but the base is currently 45% with a 2.7% increase per level. I believe this skill should start at 65% with a 3.1% increase per level.

Reflected shot is just fine as is.

Concentration is just fine as is.

Target area is a little worthless currently. If it were simply to increase accuracy up to 10% and have the critical hit rate increase by 1.9 instead of 1.3 it would be much more effective.

I would do elite skills, but It would require a lot more information, and I doubt they are going to make the changes above anyhow.

Numero four

Ranged weapons.

Ranged weapons are currently becoming more and more lacking in physical damage as compared to daggers, axes, swords, and hammers. While I agree bows and xbows should be lower, the space is becoming increasingly widened. Simply keep ranged weapons a steady 12-15% less DPS than daggers and it should be sufficient. (Currently ranged weapons are running 16.5-20% less DPS than daggers at a base)



Conclusion:

If you don't make these changes, there's no real way you can fix scout. This is quite literally the only ways that scout could be fixed. If absolutely none of these changes are made, it will be gimped and nerfed for eternity. It would be possible for scouts to be balanced by increasing their support ability, but the class would then be more support than DPS. And at that point, I don't really think anyone would play scout.

Your turn. Sick of battling this ignorance, this my final message on this forum.

EDIT: Changed the spacing from 2 blank lines to 1 blank line so that your post wasnt tremendously long for no reason ~Majik

There should also be a new Scout Specific skill,

Call it Ranged Weapons Mastery, Level 1 would make the range of all your ranged weapons (bows and crossbows) increase by 5% it would max out at level 50 where the range of your range weapons would be increased by 20 % . That would make the Scouts the ranged class again.' Just adding a range increase to bows and crossbows gives Scout Primary nothing as every class who uses bows and crossbows would get the same buff. There would finally get some advantage in actually being a Scout. They would still be a bit short of the mage range with a crossbow but slightly above it with a bow. They would finally be able to out range the other classes who are using a Scout as a secondary. If you wanted to fix the class as a whole you could add the same percent increase in damage and not have to worry about modifying any other skills other than Detection.

Currently every other class who has a Scout as a secondary has the same or greater range than a Scout Primary and does the same or more damage with the Scout weapons; bows and crossbows using a Scout's general skills.

The Scout currently is Second class even with the Scout weapons and Skills.

EDIT: Removed Giant blank space to clean up the size of the post ~Majik

pdam > pcrit > PA...u don't need to worry about accuracy, as your dex should provide enough....

tp - sorry, not familiar with s/r specifically, but just about every ranged damage skill is worth putting to into, as your rotation probably includes the all...correct me if this isn't the case for s/r...

statting/gear - focus on the above, and stat str/PAx2, dex/PAx2, stam/PAx2, switching out another dex/PA for a sta/PA if you want more PA....starting also depends on pve or PvP, as PvP gear will generally have more stam and raw dex than pve gear...

buffs: anything that augments crit, damage, speed or dex/str/PA...last I checked, pdam > PA, no matter ur PA, but that could be wrong...


visit the scout forums...it has pretty much all this info and a whole lot more...including tons and tons of threads about how to fix scouts...

Most people don't know what they are talking about when it comes to statting.

It's best to lay out all of the highest level stats and start adding ALL buff modifications to get maximum performance. Also, try and record what the mod's will be with certain buffs and their timers.

So look at all the highest level patk stats, HP, PDef, Stam, and dex stats.

Your primary goal is to get the most patk, hp, and pdef out of your stats as possible.

Buffs to considers, hero potion (doesn't apply to straight patk, hp, or pdef stats), swiftness, the foods you use, ANY % increases for patk etc.

It 'shouldn't' take more than about an hour to find the stats, lay them out, and do some mathematics.

If you don't know how to do % math, this is the simplest form of doing it (and how I always do it).

Take the number (let's say 6549) and divide it by 100. 6549 / 100 = 65.49 (1%).

So now you know what 1% is, you simply multiply the number of the % given.

You have 6549 dex, and want to know how much you will have with a hero pot: 6549/100 = 65.49 (1%) x 20 (hero pot is a 20% increase) = 1309.8. Then you just 1309.8 + 6549 = 7858.8.

Simplest and quickest way to figure out completely accurate % based increases. As well as this will save you from asking other people as the level cap increases 'what should I use?' or if you continue to use the same stats, and those stats have diminishing returns in comparison to the other stats. (Generally, it's either better to stat with named stats [dex - stam - ect.] or flat rate stats [patk - max HP - Pdef])

And yes, as the level cap increases, the difference between the stats change. Sometimes it's better to stat dex and stam with patk stats as fillers, sometimes it's better to use dex and stam stats as filler stats. It varies with a large amount of stats, so it's hard to determine as they generally come close, but one will always come out ontop of the other.

ALSO - If you are statting for PvE you will want to go heavier on Patk than Pdef, but maintain a fair amount of health. When I statted as a scout, I statted for both PvE and PvP. It was a 40/30/30 situation. 40 patk / 30 hp / 30 pdef.

If you are statting strictly for PvE I would recommend 50/25/25. More or less is advisable, but I would NOT recommend anything more than 60/20/20. There is no point in being a glass cannon scout. You will be much better off having sustainability as you will spend most of your time outside of a group.

As scout you are ranged damage dealer so you don't have to worry about pdef in pve. All you need is enough HP and max. pattk. When comes to gear and stats for pve both rogue and scout need same gear. So you can play both rogue and scout on same gear. Go through rogue class stating discussions to know further details.

For gear use POM gear/Instance gear based on your convenience.

When comes to stats use 3 x Dex/pattk , 2 x Stam/pattk & 1 x str/pattk

Runes: Revolution, Tyrant, Assassin & ferocity

Use charplan addon and stat in the way mentioned above to see your final stats.

For pvp/sw you have to replace minimum 7 pieces of gear with honor gear available at obsidian stronghold NPC and stat as much stam/hp as you can otherwise stat a whole new honor gear with stam/pattk & stam/hp stats. Hope this helps

I started as s/r in chap 3 and changed to r/s from chap 4. Use charplan to see if you can improve gear better.

Quoted from "CammoXD"

Elemental Extraction (m/wl) decreases mdef/def of the boss by 30% for 10 seconds.
Authoritative Deterrence (k/w) Increases all damage on the target by 41.9% for 10 seconds @ lvl 82.

By far the biggest buffs/de-buffs now. Sometimes took a k/w with 20k hp into beth just to get that de-buff to burn 6th boss lol.

Was Authoritative Deterrence changed? According to RoM wiki, it decreases damage you take by that amount.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Quoted from "CammoXD"

Elemental Extraction (m/wl) decreases mdef/def of the boss by 30% for 10 seconds.
Authoritative Deterrence (k/w) Increases all damage on the target by 41.9% for 10 seconds @ lvl 82.

By far the biggest buffs/de-buffs now. Sometimes took a k/w with 20k hp into beth just to get that de-buff to burn 6th boss lol.

Was Authoritative Deterrence changed? According to RoM wiki, it decreases damage you take by that amount.

for some reason wiki/IP etc show the skill as doing something different, yet in game it is as followed: http://i.imgur.com/olYyWTD.jpg

Quoted from "bahlool"

Thank you for the walk thru it helps alot .. with the coversion you gave me on PVE 50/25/25

1.) Lets say I have 100k PATK, 50k PDEF, 50k HP , I don't think i would survice anything as currently, I have unbuffed 90K PATK, 65k HP and 50k PDEFF and I am unable to survice any high-end inis or SW.

2.) My other question was what should be my HP, PATK, and PDEFF in Hard-Mode inis with all the buffs/food I can have to be able to survive them. So I am looking at the minimum figures to be able to deal some damage and give the healers some chanced to heal me without dying from one hit.

3.) I would also like to know if you use any application or addon to help you calculate your figures and either suggest plan or give you a character overview to improve. Possibly compare your character to others on the server to optimize it to its best potential? I hope i am making sense here


Thank you,

I numbered your paragraph's to more easily answer them.

1 -> Sorry, I should have been more informative. I did not mean that you should achieve 100% by taking your Patk, dividing it into a % and make that your HP and pdef.

50/25/25 statting. Half of your stats should be patk almost always. Everyone 1/4, about, stats should be hp and pdef. Allow me to go into depth.

Your stats should be somewhat like this - patk/x - x/patk - patk/x - x/hp - x/pdef - x/hp or x/pdef -
And on your next piece, whether you chose another x/pdef or x/hp you would then take the opposite.

So, for example: Gear 1 - patk/x - x/patk - patk/x - x/hp - x/hp - x/pdef
Gear 2 - patk/x - x/patk - patk/x - x/hp - x/pdef - x/pdef

And as I said before, whether you get more patk from flat rate patk stats or named stats (dex / stam etc.) you want it to be mostly like that. IF you are going for PvE.

2.) I can't answer this, as I retired from the game shortly after Chapter 4 was released.

3.) The only one that was really more of a convenience was stat reader I believe. Basically it took all the stats, as you hovered over them, and broke them down into all the bonuses you would receive from named stat.

And a calculator is pretty useful, but you could get it done on a piece of paper or in your head if you're that inclined.

Now, off the topic of what you said, and what somebody else said:

"You don't need pdef for PvE"

Yes you do. Pdef scales at a % rate to everything. If you had 1 pdef and 100k hp, you'd still be getting destroy'd by mobs in FA.

While HP is important, yes, but because bosses and monsters are 'made' to hit at a certain flat rate. Say level 1 mobs hit for 5 at a flat rate (if all stats are even) but a level 80 mob will hit for somewhere around 10k at a flat rate.

Now, you may say, level 80 mobs hit me for 2k. That's because your pdef is far above the flat rate. Once you defeat the flat rate, the % at which it degrades is much more minuscule than when you are trying to meet the flat rate.

And then, you may say, level 80 mobs hit me for 40k. That's because your pdef is fairly far below the flat rate.

It's based on % multiplicities and division. As you reach closer to the flat rate (0%) and go beyond the flat rate (negatives) the value of pdef diminishes. I could go into this, but it would take much more than you can imagine, so you are just going to have to trust me.

Anyhow, the problem then maintains, how much pdef should you have? Well, you could go through the formula and calculate exactly how much pdef would reach the flat rate, but even then that's not exactly efficient.

The best way to find the balance is to simply try try and try again. While it may seem tedious, and you may die and lose $$$ you're going to figure out what you 'need' as compared to what is mathematically sound (good on paper).

As a scout, you don't want to get to the flat rate, honestly, you probably want to get 20-30% under the flat rate, as being a ranged class you don't require as much pdef as a melee or tank class. Ranged is a survivability tool in it's own. However, it's never enough, so you need to compensate that to be able to take at least a couple hits, giving you time to re-position and gain the ranged advantage on the target.

good to still see a scout still trying. If you play s/r main is only a pve combo, you got nothing in pvp/siege. Lol at the hp/def/str stats. Don't use them. go 4/2 on accessories(4 dex/pa, 2 stam/pa), and 3/3 the rest of your gears. Tho u be semi useful scouts are garbage, u can solo on r/s way easier in worse gear so gl.

Quoted from "tienkeem"

Lol at the hp/def/str stats. Don't use them. go 4/2 on accessories(4 dex/pa, 2 stam/pa), and 3/3 the rest of your gears.

Str stats are better on scout than they are on rogue..... both str and dex give 1 pa per for a scout, which makes 2 str/pa 2 stam/pa 2 dex/pa even more viable for scout than it does for rogue. Also way easier gearing 2/2/2....only need shells stats that way