Runes of Magic US / AU

I am ok with your changes as long as they are for scout primary, not */s.

- If only they could make shot a usable skill...it is right noew useless..do less dmg then Wind Arrow.. it's not even in my action bar..

- Bring back serenity please!!

- Increase dps of skills...specially shot bellow 200% is just not right!

- Remove those skill Ffrom GCD (Arrow essence, Archer glory (put it back 60sec), concentration, and all buffs like that) Remove foods and pot from GCD too! .. It's stupid by the time i pop them all the first one is gone lol!

Make disarmement for S/K usable ...is does over 300% dps on knight and around 150% for scout..

There are a lot other thing you could do but, lets just start with those and it would be nice!

You should also put Speed Shooting Mastery as a class specific, that way S/X would at least have an advantage over R/S

Remove CD on Blood Arrow with 60second last (make it like it was during chap 1-2) with 8% hp instead of 10%

bleedingblak made quite a few suggestions for scout the class balancing suggestion thread, if you wanna look there.

It's also on the first page of this thread..

GENERAL ADJUSTMENTS
Take shot off of GCD (or have it be enabled like autoshot)
Allow raids to be equipped into bow/xbow
Increase range of all skils by 100% (that means double). Or increase range of all skills by 100 (if 100% is too OP)
Increase DPS of all skills by 100%
SKILL: Concentration > Max 50. At max > For 60 seconds, focus regen speed is increased by 100% and physical attack speed is increased by 50%.
SKILL: Frost Arrow > Keep original status, add "When wind arrow is used, ranged physical damage is increased by 10% for 20s. Cannot be used for another 60 seconds.
SKILL: Detection > Keep original status, increase range to 250.
SKILL: Eagles Eyes > Max at 50. At max > Increases physical crit rate by 500 and physical critical damage by 10%.
SKILL: Target Area > Max at 50. At max > Increase accuracy by 5%, increases crit rate by 300. A critical strike will apply an additional 5% dex, stackable up to 5 times.
SKILL: Blood Arrow > Max at 50. At max > Every 2 seconds you lose 10% HP. Physical ranged damage is increased by 35%. Lasts 30 seconds.
SKILL: Speed Shotting > Max at 50. At max > Increases attack speed of bows and xbows by 40%. Also increases their damage by 15%.
SKILL: Swiftness > Max at 50. At max > Permanently increases dexterity by (current dexterity + 300) x 10% + 300.
SKILL: Wrist Attack ( > Damage on target is increased by 10%. Target damage also reduced by 10%. Lasts 10 seconds. CD: 1 minute
Set-SKILL: Archer's Glory > Lowers movement speed by 65%. Increases range of all skills by 200. Increases attack speed by 20%. Increases ranged weapon damage by 10%. Lasts 20 seconds. CD: 6 minutes

I have no idea of the implications this would bring to DPS. It seems like it would be way too OP, but I feel like this would keep them top dogs in the 'sustained' category.

I agree with BB here.

While I too agree scouts need to be fixed... I was reading the list and as I was going my brain was going WHAT??? OMG!!! That many bonuses would OP the class too much. Some of those suggestions I like, and again I DO think scouts need a buff. However, I didn't even finishing reading the list because I immediately knew that would make them the next OP class. It would be like me suggesting ridiculous adjustments to mages knowing that it would OP the class.

First: TOO MANY maxxed at 50 skills. That would make the class ridiculously easy to make tops DPS with low TPs. Swiftness Really? SO it would be easier to get a better bonus than ANY other passive stat increase? That is just no... no and no.

Second: Every class has worthless skills, designing a "revamp" and making every skill not commonly used worth using makes it unbalanced vs other classes. Other classes have unused skills, your class shouldn't be different.

Third: Increasing every skills' dmg by DOUBLE?.. way too much. They should fall in line or a little short of melee class DPS %s, maybe higher after testing but the dmg should be adjusted till in line with other skills.

Fourth: No GCD on shot, and that many speed ups? Wasn't that was OPed the class for so long?


Here is where I think people and their suggestions lose all credibility. They get too greedy. Instead of coming up with an idea that is actually balanced and fair, they go off the deep end and make suggestions which would OP the class. Then the suggestion goes from "the scout is broken and needs to be fixed" and quickly becomes "please make scouts the next OP class". I have sympathy and support for the first comment, but the second it starts looking like the second you lose all my support.

Most passives should be maxed at 50. It's a waste of TP in this game. TP is in limited supply as it is. Anything that increases stam/int/wisdom, etc, should be capped and be considered for an upgrade every X level cap updates.

Revamping skills would change rotation and making skills viable is a good thing imo. This was designed with the rest of the classes balanced aswell, not scout only.

Skills increased by double:

I'm unsure if this means a wind arrow that does 100 damage would increase to 200, or what. Currently I do 3 - 6m damage vs a wd/w who does 30m. That means that double dps would only get me to 6-12m. Not sure how much 50% attack speed would increase damage, so let's just say its doubled (it wouldn't be btw). 12-24m. A bit more pdam / slight attack speed modifications, 17m - 35m damage. I don't know calculations.

No GCD on shot, like how there's no GCD on charged chop / potws / throw / combo throw. It's nothing new.

Also, posting something here and trying to say that you don't agree with it doesn't seem constructive.

I would suggest making a post editing my "unbroken class" list to something that seems more balanced.

Blood Arrow - this really needs to be fixed. Look at it this way, it lasts 30 secs but every 2 secs you lose 10% of your hp. That means before 20 secs it automatically turns off because you will almost be dead. What kind of skill is this where you can't even use it for the full duration unless you take a pot or get healed. HP drain needs to be dramatically reduced to like 2% or just eliminated completely or maybe changed to focus.

Arrow of Essence - duration 30 secs, 1 min cd, instead of current 15s and 5 min cd.

Ranged Weapon Mastery - damage increased to 70% at max instead of current pathetic 20%.

Snipe - remove cast time, make it instant so it can actually be used.

Archer's Glory - 20% speed and damage increase, instead of current 10 speed and 8 dmg.

Equal weapons - why are bows and xbows dps like a level behind melee weapons?

Range of all skills increased by 25%.

Scouts should get 1.3 patk from str and 1 patk from dext while rogues should get only 1 from str and 1.3 from dex. I always think of scouts as rangers, who are strong, and rogues as thieves, who are weak. lol

BB, while I see your point about not being constructive your argument is flawed in this aspect:

I can point out flaws in a system without having in depth knowledge of scouts. To be able to come up with a better suggestion, requires more in depth knowledge of the scouts itself. Therefore to be both constructive and not ignorant, it is best to point out flaws so that those with the better knowledge can go back and assess the criticisms in hopes to find an ACTUAL, EDUCATED, and COMPREHENSIVE fix. Me with moderate scout knowledge will easily be able to tell what is too much or too little, but someone with more in depth knowledge will be able to find that "just right" Spot.

Now moving on. If you want Constructive comments (using your post as a "constructive" template)

First I think that if passives are to be capped at 50, then they should stay a static number. The 10% + 300 would be fine by me. Relying on GF to update it every x levels... Cmon really? Like that will ever happen. So that leaves us at 2 choices 1) not maxxed at 50 and scales, or 2) set at 50 for a level that is acceptable at level 100ish, like the one suggested. However, this shouldn't be something only suggested in a scout forum. So you should make those concerns know on another thread and not here.

The Entire TP system needs to be revamped, but that doesn't make these suggestions valid or the best idea. One would think your comments on these topics could be better put in the thread about overall skill/class changes as well.

I don't know enough about GCD (since I mainly play mages), but I do remember one of the problems with the CH 3 scout OPness was the lack of GCD on shot. Hence why I brought it up. Your comment was unconstructive, since it didn't address the concern I had at all. There was a question there, it being "nothing new" could be inferred from the fact I was referring to it being a problem in the past... past as in not new. We don't need redundancy here.

As for the double I think he meant the double as if shot is 256% now, make it 512% on the tool tip. He can correct me if I am wrong, If he had said increased by 100% and not said the "DOUBLE" part, I would have thought he meant it should be 356%, which I would have said would be more fair (hence my comment about the skills being more inline with melee %s). This needs clarification, that is a constructive criticism that is more than valid.

Changing rotations will what? Change DIYCE programming... that is all. So requesting RW to recode that many skills in hopes of a balance, just so people alter their DIYCE? Cmon, for a lot of people it will still be one-button-wondering

So while you don't "feel" it was constructive, you can see it is more than constructive, since it brings up major concerns in an attempt to find a solution that is fair and beneficial to scouts. Which I thought was the whole point of this thread?

Now, you are right, why am I even trying to make a more balanced class? If they made it OP, I would just play my scout and my gf would go back to using her as her main... wow what was I thinking... I should have just kept my mouth shut and let an OP suggestion possibly go through and benefit from it, shouldn't I? I mean who cares if it kills the game right?

Moral of this story: if you disagree with something and have valid reasons why, don't post, cause someone will accuse you of "not being constructive", just let the ship keep burning.

Make scout damage formula same as melee class - I will play scout again, even if nothing else is changed.

In a thread where it's about fixing a class and saying someone is wrong and leaving at that, no. That isn't constructive. Using their post and implying different ramifications to what they have posted if constructive.

no gcd wasn't the issue, the issue was that you could spam shot as fast as you could click it (as fast as server would allow, think of it like flame on m/wd) Machine gun scouts were the problem, it should be more like charged chop.

I did mean if a skill was 300%, change it to 600%.

Making a skill usable is good, even if it means it has to be placed into a DIYCE config. S/wd spams "shoot". That is their rotation. Nerf shoot, boost other skills. DPS could be even while using more skills. Just seems more fun that way.

Yes, I do think passives should be capped at 50, and that high. It isn't op, and would barely change much in terms of the game. The static number is there for people who are not statted like crazy. The % helps the people who are endgame, but the static number does nothing. The flat number helps those who are not geared, but the % barely helps them.

Moral of this story: If someone takes the time to make a suggestion to fix an entire class and someone says bad idea without some kind of changes, don't think you are helping to fix a class. It just makes it harder for ideas to float around to make more people contribute ideas to be forwarded.

S/M GoH hard DPS:


S/R GoH hard DPS:

that doesn't change the fact that I can easily point out a system that will not be balanced, but not have enough information to modify the skill effectively.

So intead of wasting everyones time by suggesting something that will be far too low or way to high... is less constructive than just pointing out flaws in hopes that those with the knowledge to alter them effectively.

I did say that that is too many skills maxing at 50, that is easy to see my suggestion is LESS. I do still think not THAT many should be capped at 50. If every skill in the game capped at 50.. yes it would be easier for all the players, but also would become more of a "whats the point to even log in" if you don't even need to do dailies for tps....

So being able to spam it like a machine gun... is not that it didn't have a GCD? So the GCD fixed that ability? The main question is, without a GCD what is in place now that would make it not machine-gunable? I am asking because I didn't play a scout then, so I do not know. So what was the thing they did to prevent the machine gun of Shot, if not the GCD or was it just a cooldown on top of GCD? Again didn't play a scout then, so I honestly don't know.

Now ill be nit picky I DID give suggestions, go back and read it

1) less skills capping at 50, leaving to you which ones to no longer cap at 50--- That is a suggestion
2) Saying not to revamp as many skills... so the SUGGESTION is to not do that part and use the other adjustments.... that is again a suggestion
3) too high of a % dmg increase--- SUGGESTING to pick a lower number, and putting it in line with melee %-- That is a Suggestion
4) was a question-- kinda needed the answer to give a suggestion

So while you didn't like my suggestions, I didn't give specific, but I DID give suggestions.

And the person that should worry is you.. As you shoot down any suggestion just because you don't like it, you will be making it, how did you put it, "harder for ideas to float around to make more people contribute ideas to be forwarded". Because if you just attack suggestions and claim they aren't suggestions you are creating an atmosphere where people WONT think their input is warranted, and therefore not post in fear of a snippy response like you gave me.

Now we will leave it at that, because if you truly don't understand that those were suggestions, then there is nothing I can do for you.

However, if we keep discussing how YOU "THINK" I didn't give suggestions, we will be off topic. So either take my suggestions to alter that plan, or not.

see now cike, THAT is the type of response I would have expected after my post. I gave my suggestions you gave counter points to which I can also give coutner points.

First Ill ask: How were these numbers tested and confirmed? I mean, no offense, but you talk like you had a test server where you could alter the values and see how they would be affected. If this is the case, ok then I wont have anything to add since I would have no way to test/confirm/modify any suggestions with such validity.

I mean did RW release an official damage formula for all the classes that I missed? Or is this all still based purely on speculation? I mean I can say that when they cut the balls off of scouts the 1) Put shot on a GCD, 2) altered ALL of the %s, but in no way halved them, 3) removed was it a dex bonus? or just that there was it something with the boss defenses? 4) blood arrows was nerfed.

SO here is a simple troubleshooting 101 lesson:

When you had something that was working before (or even working too well) and you make a list of changes and it breaks the class. Step 1 should be to put ONE of those changes back and see if that is enough. This is the easiest, least effort, and most effective way to fix an issue. Then you move down the line.

So why go through ALL the work of coming up with, lets not forget hoping RW can implement it correctly or even at all? Why do that when you could just add one or two things at a time and test them as they go? That is after all the standard that SHOULD be in this game since it is in most programming environments. Don't try to make sweeping changes, but one at a time.

Since I have no way to test all the suggested changes, I have no way to prove if they would go too far or not. It is just my assumption, and my experience in statistics that tells me this would be too much. Just like I said Dias in the AH wouldn't reduce price (which it didn't), that the current system of endgamers living F2P off of newer P2P would die (which it has), and numerous other things I have called that no one believed me on.

You aren't the only one that is retired I just do my dailies and go play something else. Until level cap and hopefully something actually happens for the good.

It's nice to see activity about this topic, but simmer gently folks.

No rush, I am actually curious behind the system.


I am the one that "just because someone says something, doesn't make it true" type. This is why I watch multiple different news channels, because you will hear a different "fact" depending on which you watch and which "interpretation" of the "statistics" you read. As my father always said, "there are 3 sides to every store, one side, the other and the truth, which is somewhere inbetween".

You must vet a system before it can be accepted as truth, by me confronting you about it you are therefore forced to vet your data and thus solidify or revamp your position, both of which are better for the game over all.

Maybe nobody has realized it, after years of me posting, but I always try to be "the other side" so that we can arrive at some truth. I am very hated for it, I can tell the hostility immediately after I post something. That is ok, I can be that necessary evil for everyone else.

After all, I want this game to excite me again, I want it to have meaning again, and I want it to be worth putting money back into.... so we all have to work together to accomplish it (a sentiment not shared by anyone wanting to quickly shoot down any suggestions because it doesn't fit their mold)

melee = 2.75*DPS + 2*DPS*Skillpercent


range = 2.75*Damage + 2*DPS*Skillpercent


There's a little more to it like pa vs pdef and crit dmg multiplier.

The main thing to notice is 2.75*DPS vs 2.75*Damage. DPS includes all speed buffs which really inflates damage output during burn mode (or even non burn, if you want to see the difference just calculate the raid rune alone in the melee formula, and remember scouts don't even get a raid rune and if they did it would return far less).

It would be pretty easy to just tinker with the math and adjust numbers on skills/passives/buffs/weapons to approach numbers similar to xyz acceptable dps combo on a per hit basis, then just adjust accordingly if you want no gcd skills etc etc (hits per second).

If that's what you guys do on your proposed changes then grats you're doing it right. Otherwise anecdotal evidence or even video evidence doesn't say much aside from yea scouts are in pretty bad shape atm.

FWIW you can probably take the damage formulas and map out every physical dps combo from top to bottom over an x second fight assuming your rotations are correct (and your math too) and pinpoint where every class is lacking (or where others are too strong, it's relative to instance difficulty/mechanics I guess). Way too much work to bother but feel free to do it, I wouldn't mind seeing the results.