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Rogue/Scout R/S Conern

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Scatta

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1

Monday, November 3rd 2014, 8:39am

R/S Conern

Need some pointers on r/s or maybe on how to play this game. On average I have 100k dps on beth hm bosses, and I'm looking at my scrut going WTF compared to the rest of the group. should I not compare or should I really be concerned?.. with housemaid buffs pet & the r/s elite Combat Mastery, I have 95k patk-13kpdmg-71% crit chance. I was really convinced r/s would be super beast considering with two 16+ rings on top of the combat master +60% crit dmg <<--- that's a PERCENTAGE! BIG ONE TOO! not to mention coerce which gives 30% dmg when the target is under 30%hp. I've never hit over a mil on any mob-But people got double that in DPS in beth hm. My main rotate skills (shadowstab/lb/wound) are all above 80.

are the people I'm running with Gods or am I just a nub?

2

Monday, November 3rd 2014, 9:01am

I'm not sure I'm 100% on this. I'm a Mage. But last I knew in terms of pure burn DPS R/M > R/Wd > R/S > everything else. Even with Combat Master. R/M gets an OP 70 elite and free dmg white hit proc that's basically half their dmg. R/Wd gets Charged Chop weaving. CC doesn't trigger global cooldown so you can spam it while doing regular Rogue rotation.
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3

Monday, November 3rd 2014, 11:40am

R/S can still pull off nice Dps, especially in beth. The stats you linked seem abit low though which could ofc result in your low DPS. Were they buffed or unbuffed? But yeah if you are hitting really low I'd assume you are just running with top top DPS.
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4

Monday, November 3rd 2014, 11:45am

probably part class combo, part gear, part player error. if you're comparing to equal geared r/m expect to do about half of their dps. 95k pa is pretty low considering you have bow slot over r/m. think i had about 95k pa during tosh (as r/s). scrut also depends heavily on the rest of the group. high group dps means finishing fights during peak burn. low group dps means your numbers drop over time (or worse you wipe).

if fights are lasting beyond energy thief you need to be macroing throw/combo throw to maximize dps.

ask other rogues what order to burn cooldowns and stuff in.
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Monday, November 3rd 2014, 5:09pm

Most people gear as glass cannon now with over 110k patk unbuffed. Could also be crappy weapon, not using the correct burn buffs, or wrong rotation. That and R/M is much better, like mentioned above. Also, you mentioned buffed with hk and pet. I'm assuming you use more buffs then that, otherwise that would be another problem. Also,, if you're in a group with no instruments comparing to one that has instruments, you're dps will be low in comparison.

Also depends on what class you're comparing to. Magic users get a big advantage in Bethh due to low boss mdef, so don't bother comparing to mages. Even my mage in full honor gear and 70k matk crits for 1m w/o K/W lol
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This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "ruisen2000" (Nov 3rd 2014, 5:18pm)


6

Monday, November 3rd 2014, 6:00pm

Crit % buffs ADD, not multiply. With +16 rings during a fight, any player has a crit damage modifier of

(1.3 base + 0.552 + 0.552 (2 +16 OD rings ) + 0.1 (caviar sandwhich) ) = 2.504 ---- ANY class can achieve this.

With combat master, you will have 3.104 ------ this is only a 23.96% increase in damage, not 60%. While it does increase your crit damage by 60%, its "60% additive", not a flat increase as most think it is. Not to mention it only applies to crit hits. So unless you have a 100% crit rate, combat master adds less then 24% to your overall damage output on a boss fight. Again, the skill isn't as good as many think it is.

Also, classes like r/m also have skills that give +% crit damage. In the case of r/m its a 2 or 3 minute cooldown that gives 50% crit damage for 30s, which is more then likely the length of the bethomia hard mode boss fights. R/wd has a pasive skill that adds 10% crit damage or so, and there may be others.

As some others have also mentioned, 95k patk isn't actually that high anymore. Some people have 130k+ UNBUFFED with no pet. Speaking of pet, what level is yours? There are passive pet skills that give 5% attack speed among other things, which increase your damage. Also, perhaps you aren't using all the potions/buffs -- if you think you'll keep up with others by using only class skills and buffs, you are mistaken.

Hero potion, patk/dmg food, wedding food, housemaid buffs, caviar sandwhich, 20s duration crit/patk potion, strong stimulant, instruments, siege war title skills (fire training and solders attack add attack speed), among other things, are important from increasing your damage from 100k to 1m+. [this isn't the order to use those things in, its simply a list off the top of my head ]

This post has been edited 4 times, last edit by "BlankMinded" (Nov 3rd 2014, 6:13pm)


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Monday, November 3rd 2014, 8:32pm

As others have mentioned it could be a number of factors. The first thing though that pops to mind is if you are comparing dps during a burn are you properly using energy thief (huge dps bump for 15 secs), fervent attack, premeditation, etc.?

Another thought is how high have you leveled your pet and where did you put your points? I know a lot of players who dump everything into hp and defense instead of the nice bit of +patk and +crit to be had from just the pet alone.

Just a few thoughts...
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Scatta

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Monday, November 3rd 2014, 8:51pm

At first I really thought R/s would benefit a great deal considering you can fill the blow slot. I have a 16+ t7 xbow with somewhat outdated stats but dex-str/pa all the way down. I figured it would be better putting stats on a bow other than tiering it for a stronger shot and vamp considering a r/m throw/combo throw is op; thus would be the same damage as projectiles/or less, that's why I'm using a statted bow. R/m just didn't seem quite suiting to me. Was r/s stronger before the scout nerf?

Those stats I mentioned are just housemaids and pet, my pet is level 50 and I have all offense passive boosts maxed. Crit dmg/atk speed etc. I benefit 750 dex from it. During runs I always use food/pots etc. I always find damage food better to use. Currently I' m not on the game but when I'm buffed completely I usually get around 15k pdmg, 110k patk (without patk food or amp) and about 22k dex.I use strong stimulants following fervant attack in rotation - & I don't regularly use caviar sandwiches. I statted in a fair mix of stamina as well (I don't wanna be a glass cannon) I can get up to 175k hp myself without other people's buffs. It seemed a rather smart decision statting somewhat defensively so I can solo mem farm, basically do what I need to do.
Crit % buffs ADD, not multiply. With +16 rings during a fight, any player has a crit damage modifier of

(1.3 base + 0.552 + 0.552 (2 +16 OD rings ) + 0.1 (caviar sandwhich) ) = 2.504 ---- ANY class can achieve this.

With combat master, you will have 3.104 ------ this is only a 23.96% increase in damage, not 60%. While it does increase your crit damage by 60%, its "60% additive", not a flat increase as most think it is. Not to mention it only applies to crit hits. So unless you have a 100% crit rate, combat master adds less then 24% to your overall damage output on a boss fight. Again, the skill isn't as good as many think it is.
Useful information.But it didn't make me :) . Combat master therefore is very deceiving. But with it on and without is a huge and clear difference in damage and dps which is a start.

I like this class combination but eventually I know ill reroll. I honestly think just the wd/ general skills fulfills all standards. Aoes/tanky/and CC with no cooldown (and you have mana). That's another problem with r/. R/s may give energy thief but then you have to pop a energy pot. R/wd has cc to rely on when you have no energy. Blah

When it comes to pvp I can see r/s being more of a tactical class combination. With Wardens I have to prison and shot/vamp for heart of the oak to come off, becuase if you go in on a warden with Hoto on it's just been absorbed and you lost most of your energy. I tend to prison shot/vamp then vanish to set up a sneak attack. But this is a different subject.

Maybe ill just force myself to reroll and make a reliable pvm class. Or just continue to get carried through runs as usual. Idk
Appreciate all of your replies, and ill take more information if you have any.


9

Monday, November 3rd 2014, 9:48pm

In regards to pvp, r/s is actually quite viable still. Bleed damage is calculated useing main hand dps, not ranged weapon, and bleeds are NOT reduced by any "damage reductions" including honor gear (they are affected by pdef tho). The result is that r/s vamp arrow is an extremely powerful tool in pvp for dishing out damage against classes like k/x x/k and wd/x who have a lot of absorbs and damage reduction skills. You might hit a k/m for a 5k lowblow, but the bleeds from vamp, shadowstab and greveious wound will do 5k~ each. Stack your bleeds then get out of danger range, and watch your enemies take a lot of dmg while you kite.

Also r/s has the throat attack silence, evasion immunity/taunt (which will be very useful against the new guards), and numbing arrow which is very good when you co-ordinate with other players.

In pve, yes r/s isn't as strong as other classes, but it is good for solo farming with the substitute taunting. All in all, r/m is better in raids, where r/s can find is place in other areas of the game.

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Monday, November 3rd 2014, 10:32pm

Most people gear as glass cannon now with over 110k patk unbuffed. Could also be crappy weapon, not using the correct burn buffs, or wrong rotation. That and R/M is much better, like mentioned above. Also, you mentioned buffed with hk and pet. I'm assuming you use more buffs then that, otherwise that would be another problem. Also,, if you're in a group with no instruments comparing to one that has instruments, you're dps will be low in comparison.

Also depends on what class you're comparing to. Magic users get a big advantage in Bethh due to low boss mdef, so don't bother comparing to mages. Even my mage in full honor gear and 70k matk crits for 1m w/o K/W lol

even 110k pa ub is low nowadays lol. most i know are over 125-130k ub mark by now.

You are incredibly low on pa sir.

Maybe you should note on here how you stack your preburn buffs, and what buffs you are in fact using, and we can all help from there. XD
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Tuesday, November 4th 2014, 7:16am

They must be gods *wink wink nudge nudge* ,but honestly from my personal experience id say you cant't really compare your dps to main stream combos like w/m and r/m unless your equally geared or more (also pm me in guilds i cbf posting on forums D:)
Silverfangz~mage ~Mithras

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Silverfangz" (Nov 4th 2014, 8:01am)


Scatta

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Tuesday, November 4th 2014, 8:26pm

@ Farmertom
Informer 1
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(as instruments are playing)
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(just incase)
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Assassins rage 8

in that order..


So far a guildie hooked me up with a throw/combo throw macro which also unequip's bow my bow in replacement of throwing projectiles. I used to just use a shot/vamp macro; now I can do more damage at a range which is nice. I've never thought about using knives because I chose r/s thinking shot/vamp would come into big plays-throw/combo throws just does more damage.. sigh.

Why in the F would they give a r/m a 70 elite that grants additional throw damage over every basic hit, does anyone else think that's kinda "over powered"? Serious question. Nimble hands and fervant attack just to make it more op? What was the thought process when the creators were making r/m elites "dood let's just make Throw their basic attacks, now pass that fat sack of reefer" Super f*&king unbalanced. End rant

Other than that new macro, also found out about Caviar sandwiches which I haven't been using. Didn't know you get them from cooking housemaids 20-25. Truth be told, I still like r/s and will never go r/m, maybe r/wd when I can get a expansion ticket. My 3rd class is a Druid.. :sniper: Me -


I will be a op r/s, one day..

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Tuesday, November 4th 2014, 9:37pm

OP? Yes. Only thing is that it keeps up with the other OP classes (w/wd wd/w m/w), so we can either label all those classes as "OP" or we can label those classes as DPS standards. WIthout them, your group will most likely die in endgame instances because runewaker makes instances kill quick, or die.

I was a r/s and was one of the first to roll r/m. DPS is crazy better.

You seem to be new here, so this my thoughts on why runewaker would make r/m so op... hmm... I'm pretty sure because when r/m first came around, it was based on trap mechanics, making if FUN, but not very viable. When Runewaker remade the class, they over compensated for its abysmal dps when the class was first made, and gave it the best DPS in the rogue category. Best in every single way essentially.

I, for one, am for making all of the unusable classes stronger, instead of bringing down the few at the top. Why? Like I said, runewaker made this game burn quick or die. There are so many broken mechanics / mechanics on boss fights that just lead to you die incredibly fast without immuning that forcing the best DPS to the bottom will create the necessity for all characters to create t9 or higher gear (t15 weapons etc).

Game is already expensive, I don't think we should be forcing more $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

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Scatta

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Thursday, November 6th 2014, 2:16am

Nice video Bleedingbak. Sadly I'm feeling like I lost some confidence- R/s now feels depressing therefore I don't feel like playing as much as I used to before this thread. Unfortunately I'm not the kind who looks forward to questing, being said if I were to re-roll it'd be awhile from now. Wish there was more balance. :thumbdown:

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15

Thursday, November 6th 2014, 2:26am

Hey, you can still kills my wl/p o.o Besides, Scatta. All you need to do is gear up a little more. r/s is still a really good rogue class, and if r/m didn't have it's 70 elite, it'd be really weak comparatively.
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Thursday, November 6th 2014, 12:38pm

r/s can still pump out good damage my friend, play whatever you want , have fun with whatever you want, i mean there are people who still run r/p, s/d, etc (bahahahaha, had to squeeze it in) and r/s can easily outdps those combos. Give it time, i have 100% faith that they will balance all classes equally power wise someday. :stick: *runs away*
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Thursday, November 6th 2014, 6:59pm

If you're expecting to do bleeding edge endgame where you need to be dishing out high DPS, you'd probably want a R/M to swap to. But otherwise, for anything else, there's really no reason why you can't play the class you enjoy.
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Scatta

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Thursday, November 6th 2014, 7:26pm

Zeri your wl/p is very squishy my man. Ill say it again, my Phantom Stab 1 shot you :|

Gearing up takes serious time. Been playing maybe a year and I have 3 endgame pieces. So like 10+ more slots to fill?

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Thursday, November 6th 2014, 7:47pm

gearing up does take serious time, but thats why we all play mmos right? games that dont end, play at your leisure etc etc. It took me over 1.5 yrs to become "endgame" my first time around.
Hand me down gear is the best though, theres always players on every servor that have to regear every chapter to make sure they have best of the best, and you really dont need best of the best anymore to be viable. Theres plenty of people i know, that still use beth gear with beth stats on it, and some of the best dps on servors.... But its also because they play the best dps wise combos as well.

Saela, one of best dps in game, had 115k pa ub or so, ran pomh all day long with beth gear, beth stats, two chapters old gear, and was top of scrut with wd/w, even against me with 133k pa ub as same class lol. IBW obviously helps of course lol. But you get the point.
She has since regeared though.

Note... nowadays, all damage from instances is percentage based, so dont use any stamina at all on your gear, i run with people who have 40k hp ub lol and survive just fine.

But thats what im going to "try" to do from now on as well lol. Regear every two chapters or so lol. Would save me mucho monies.
Misguidedknight 72S/72K/70R Retired
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Scatta

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Thursday, November 6th 2014, 8:01pm

I would honestly consider this a more challenging mmo. Many people who play come and go, like many of my friends who i invited here.

and I would believe you on on that wd/w. Seems Wardens can pull off serious dmg considering the consistent ability to use aoes and a strong single target attack; and a pet to back em up. In my opinion, they're a strong well rounded class exceeding in all aspects.

One of my problems is not spending hundreds to thousands of dollars on this game; refuse to. This shouldn't be the "main issue" I'm having, if so - Gameforge should start charging monthly to play the game to give beginners an idea of what they're about to get into.

Maybe I just said something incredibly retarded, if so - idc :chinese: