Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Thenewslash"

Quoted from "radeon"

5. As I said, I don't see as many r/m in siege as before, and m/wd is as bad as p/s used to be

Ever play Rock, Paper, Scissors as a kid?

M/wd > R/m
R/m > M/s
M/s > M/wd

This is just one example of many different combinations that can be used, and each one varies depending itself also of course, and a full burn r/m can also take a m/wd easy and a m/wd with ecb can take a m/s easy. Everything has pros and cons, if you're tired of losing to m/wd's because of there pro's, try and remember there cons, as every class has them.

@thenewslash

Don't worry I'm sure it will be a long time before ROM does any more class "balancing." Besides if they ever do nerf M/Wd for whatever reason you can always play your other combos Wd/W and W/M that, as you say, destroy M/Wd.

@RTP

OK, I take your word. Every class can kill another class depending on circumstances.

to thenewslash

While I agree about p/s vs m/wd comparison, it is not as bad as you claim. I would argue m/wd is much better then old p/s, and you know it. While it uses more then single skill, it has many insta casts that hit so much more and we both know many m/wd out there use diyce which in essence makes it exactly the same as one button pusher p/s was. So yeah... Add to that extra pd, stuns, damage reduction, magic damage buffs etc and last your op 5 min kill all combo and you have ultimate killer, who is ranged.

I am not advocating for any nerf, mind, but dont underplay the toon you play, it is one the best in rom pvp, if not the best.

To the op point, I will stress one more time, I strongly again ANY nerfs period. To balance, buff, not nerf. And do it based on pve, pvp is not good reason to do changes.

Final comment for me here, remember p/s and how many left after nerf? It was 100% pvp class combo, since you cant dps endgame as p/s. If similar nerf will be done to r/m, which is pve class really, you will lose huge number of people, simple because rerolling options are limited - cant turn scout anymore, and other rogues will be significantly worse. I can guarantee it will be final nail if they nerf it.

Quoted from "Heddin"

While I agree about p/s vs m/wd comparison, it is not as bad as you claim. I would argue m/wd is much better then old p/s, and you know it. While it uses more then single skill, it has many insta casts that hit so much more and we both know many m/wd out there use diyce which in essence makes it exactly the same as one button pusher p/s was. So yeah... Add to that extra pd, stuns, damage reduction, magic damage buffs etc and last your op 5 min kill all combo and you have ultimate killer, who is ranged.

I just thought I'd say that I honestly do not know one person who uses DYICE on a m/wd, or has made aware to me that they do o.o I now see how it would be useful in rotating instant casts but you do run out of instants pretty quickly and require a casting filler skill... I mean its not too hard to hit 3 different buttons whenever you see they are off cooldown ^.^

I could continue on more with what is being said as like you I play many different classes in siege and m/wd has just always been my most common one since chapter 2. However this is a r/m thread so ill refrain ;p

As for the nurfing of r/m Heddin said it perfectly when it was compared to that of the p/s nurf. You can't nurf throw and expect it to go over any better then it did during the p/s nurf. You have to keep it strictly PvP if that is your complaint, as things should not be nurfed on a pve basis, only buffed. And if you want to start with a minor tweak on rogues in pvp, do something that doesn't affect them in pve, like a cooldown on hide or something.

plenty of ways to make slight changes without destroying dps in pve

change enter/leave combat mechanics
adjust range of throw (tbh people will still get insta 1 shot no matter what, rogue just takes an extra 4 steps)
adjust hide (add minimum range to enter hide or small cooldown or whatever LOTS of ideas here)

itll make one shot sieges feel more balanced but basically force endgame siege rogues to pvp gear up as a paper rogue is hardly an issue vs any semi tanky/honor geared class

I don't find R/M's to be that big of an issue in PVP anymore and I'm only sitting at 300k hp in my honor gear as M/Wd or M/S. I have a much harder time with other M/Wd's and Tanks with pocket healers than I do with Rogues.. they are kind of an after thought for me now. Discharge/Instant cast usually takes care of them pretty quick.

Rogues aren't nearly as overpowered in PVP as they used to be before siege gear was a common thing.

DO NOT BASE CLASS BALANCING ON PVP PLZ lol

That 300k wound attack though D: (And that's on m/wd, my m/s its a lil worse ;p )But yes, there are plenty of other classes that can rival r/m in pvp effectively, though not to say r/m is bad for pvp what so ever. And a m/wd is also the first target aha ^.^

You know, over the years that i have been playing, i saw scouts rise to Rom Gods. and their fall. The p/s nerf, the knights mighty shaft patch, the wardens that couls get baned for usng their skills in siege. over the years there has always been a trend , threads like clockwork to nerf some type of rogue. always.

all classes have their op moments , but something bugs me. the constant cry for nerfs to this class or that class, while all along knocking people begging for their favorite class to be returned to some form of usefulllness. case in point , scout. if scouts were still a viable class, more people would play them, and thus, all these calls to nerf rogue over the years would be moot because scout, the counter to rogue, would still be effective, and useful. with scouts being essentially dead, and not having them in siege detecting rogues(i know, the range, should be increased to be just over rogues range skills) rogues will always be thorn in peoples side.

I have said it before, and myself and others have said it too. You dont achieve balance by nerfing. when your speakers in your car for example are favoring the right side, you lift the left up to match, you dont lower the right do you? think about it, balance, not minimizing the one that is over balance. bring all up to the same level. whatever that level is determined to be best on all fronts. this hack and slash method of balance has driven soooo many people away from rom. and will continue until a new method of balancing is brought about. one that doesnt nerf x class based on pvp, a one hour a day event. its just, well, silly IMo.