Runes of Magic US / AU

I agree there is more than one viable build. Saela was telling me last night that you can raise your parry to 100% and then all damage in pve would be reduced by 50%. Does it work that way? If it does I may have to go back to plate.

Quoted from "Erich1999"

I agree there is more than one viable build. Saela was telling me last night that you can raise your parry to 100% and then all damage in pve would be reduced by 50%. Does it work that way? If it does I may have to go back to plate.

I managed to buff 136% parry rate.

Does it work? half damage and no crits ever?

Quoted from "Erich1999"

Does it work? half damage and no crits ever?

Yes.

Can you gear to a base 100% or is it like crit where getting over 80% is really hard and you need skills and pots to get to 100%. Because if I could get there with gear then it would be worth it.

Quoted from "Erich1999"

Can you gear to a base 100% or is it like crit where getting over 80% is really hard and you need skills and pots to get to 100%. Because if I could get there with gear then it would be worth it.

You can get 70% parry UB and then you need to use skills and pots to boost it over 100%.

Hello everyone. I know that this thread is old and hasn't been updated since March but I had a query regarding Knight statting and i thought it would be more appropiate if I posted here than if I made a new thread. As Cerberus said, I hope this thread serves as future reference/guide to knight tanks.

The general dispute regarding knight tanking stats revolves around the debate between those who go full sta/def/hp and those who decide to genereate a bit more aggro through patt and dps. I personally favor the def/hp route but by no means do I believe is the only one. To get back on point, the other day I had an epiphany regarding a third route; magical defense. You heard that right, mdef!! Before you furiously input your credentials and try to log in to rage at me or tell me that mdef in a knight is only useful for pvp, hear my argument and give your opinion as to whether this alternative is reasonable or not.

There is a consensus amongst all tanks (not just knights) that there does seem to be a cap in PvE in terms of defense. This "cap" seems to be around 600k pdef or so. Statting more defense beyond this point doesn't really reduce the amount of damage you take. At least not for a significant amount. At the same time, there does seem to be a "cap" for hp. With stamina giving 5 hp per attribute, along with pots, food, and buffs, most tanks barely need more than 350k-400k hp. Some of the hardest hits do not do flat damage, instead they hit by percentage terms. They take away the same portion of your hp bar whether you have 700k hp or 40k hp. In essence, these hits actually become a liability to your healer. With the exception of p/wl (maybe there is another one), healers heal based on flat hp and not percentage of life. Having high hp on you while getting hit by percentage, can create a burden for your healer.

With that said, the big issue regarding running instances nowadays is that you either burn bosses or get hit with a WTF hit of insane amount. These hits tend to be magical hits. What about if we could possibly mitigate them? That is, what if we could stat some mdef to counter these OMG damage? Most bosses have considerably less matt than patt and thus it will only require a relatively small amount of mdef to counter their magical hits. 1 or 2 mdef stats per gear should be more than enough. For example, I believe Grotto and POM bosses have around 350k-400k patt compared to only 45k matt. Now that I have made my case, do you see the logic behind it? Could statting a few mdef make any difference in terms of increasing survivality? Maybe these big magical hits take out a ton of hp regardless of how much mdef you have and there is no way to counter them.

One counter argument to my theory is that because these outrageous hits are magic based, they tend to be aoe's and affect everybody, not just the tank. In which case, the survivality of the tank is useless (you can't tank when everyone is dead). Nevertheless, it will still give your considerable survivality without sacrificing much unneeded pdef or hp. Has anyone tried ever statting mdef for PvE tanking, and if so, what has been their results.

It would be great if anyone of the most experienced tanks could give their feedback or opinion. It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Quoted from "Needundead"

Hello everyone. I know that this thread is old and hasn't been updated since March but I had a query regarding Knight statting and i thought it would be more appropiate if I posted here than if I made a new thread. As Cerberus said, I hope this thread serves as future reference/guide to knight tanks.

The general dispute regarding knight tanking stats revolves around the debate between those who go full sta/def/hp and those who decide to genereate a bit more aggro through patt and dps. I personally favor the def/hp route but by no means do I believe is the only one. To get back on point, the other day I had an epiphany regarding a third route; magical defense. You heard that right, mdef!! Before you furiously input your credentials and try to log in to rage at me or tell me that mdef in a knight is only useful for pvp, hear my argument and give your opinion as to whether this alternative is reasonable or not.

There is a consensus amongst all tanks (not just knights) that there does seem to be a cap in PvE in terms of defense. This "cap" seems to be around 600k pdef or so. Statting more defense beyond this point doesn't really reduce the amount of damage you take. At least not for a significant amount. At the same time, there does seem to be a "cap" for hp. With stamina giving 5 hp per attribute, along with pots, food, and buffs, most tanks barely need more than 350k-400k hp. Some of the hardest hits do not do flat damage, instead they hit by percentage terms. They take away the same portion of your hp bar whether you have 700k hp or 40k hp. In essence, these hits actually become a liability to your healer. With the exception of p/wl (maybe there is another one), healers heal based on flat hp and not percentage of life. Having high hp on you while getting hit by percentage, can create a burden for your healer.

With that said, the big issue regarding running instances nowadays is that you either burn bosses or get hit with a WTF hit of insane amount. These hits tend to be magical hits. What about if we could possibly mitigate them? That is, what if we could stat some mdef to counter these OMG damage? Most bosses have considerably less matt than patt and thus it will only require a relatively small amount of mdef to counter their magical hits. 1 or 2 mdef stats per gear should be more than enough. For example, I believe Grotto and POM bosses have around 350k-400k patt compared to only 45k matt. Now that I have made my case, do you see the logic behind it? Could statting a few mdef make any difference in terms of increasing survivality? Maybe these big magical hits take out a ton of hp regardless of how much mdef you have and there is no way to counter them.

One counter argument to my theory is that because these outrageous hits are magic based, they tend to be aoe's and affect everybody, not just the tank. In which case, the survivality of the tank is useless (you can't tank when everyone is dead). Nevertheless, it will still give your considerable survivality without sacrificing much unneeded pdef or hp. Has anyone tried ever statting mdef for PvE tanking, and if so, what has been their results.

It would be great if anyone of the most experienced tanks could give their feedback or opinion. It would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

That's one hell of a thought, and I wish it could be viable, but the problem with this is that mobs/minions hit harder than actual bosses now, so you'd still have to be at the 500-600k pdef cap so you aren't squishy and don't overwork your healer/healers.

Also, mdef doesn't work like pdef does as in you have to have more pdef than they do PA. Mdef is cut like butter with minimal MA. It seems like Magical Dmg is based more on its MDMG factor than the actual MA the mob has. With that said, I think a reduction in damage will be hard to notice with all the PDmg coming in as well.

I just feel like MA/MDMG/MDEF is borked in this game when it comes to players.

There's a pdef cap? I thought you needed to have enough pdef so the attacker's pattack was less thank 20% of your pdef to take minimum damage. In a lot of instances this is pretty easy to achieve so you wouldn't see much return in say GCH between 400 pdef and 600 but in COE it should still matter.

Can anyone confirm that their is a pdef cap?

melee formulla says pdef stop reducing incoming damage if it's 5 times higher then the target's pa, as far as coe goes i believe first boss has around 400k pa so statting pdef will always help under 2m
dont know about the trash mobs pa value though.

With all the mdef stats that drop from pulls i always tought there must have been a point to those stats in the game. I think it would make a lot of sense for sure but as Soulcalibur said, i think the math on those is broken.

Another thing that i have noticed is having 2 Fearless runes VII and 3 VI's , i was getting less damage from anything in the game. I still think being able to make 5 Fearless X might be a way to go too.

PDEF cap ?? an answer by the GM's maybe?

I think i might try crafted gear with MDEF on it and see if it does work, gotta take a bit of time but worth the try.

Personally I would prefer to make a K/W using Parry/dodge build with decent pdef + HP

Have tanked Coeh mobs + bosses on Wd/w, Wd/s and Ch/w.
The CoE Pirate mobs do Frenzied attack or something.... I know on warden I had about 800k pdef (no dump) and that skill would hit me for about 150k and on Ch/w with approx 1.3m pdef sustained (no dump) I was taking approx 50k hits.

With such high pdef the average dmg from the trash mobs was about 20 - 30k lol but to me it seems like you have to have such a high amount of pdef I would rather just parry everything

Everyone who says that about parry all play OP as heck Wardens. Each point of parry comes at the cost of a point of crit. A parry tank will have so little dps they would have trouble running gobs. Cal you have a bunch of OP toons, some of us only really have one and want to be able to solo SOMETHING sometimes. Plus if you went all out parry you would only get to 78% or so just like crit so you would need skills and pots to go to 100%. And parry is only for physical attacks, and maybe not even all of them. To stack parry you would need to wear gear with no crit or Pattack, and there is no way to stack enough with stats to make up for wearing chain and crit gear. It just isn't worth it.

You only need 50% parry rate on knight for shield of valor, same cd as sod (very low @ 60s and 15s duration), to give you 100%. It adds a flat rate, not "50% of what your char screen shows". You also get quick reflexes for parry + crit as a k/w...while Quick Reflexes does't give you 100%, it can get you up to 70+% depending on equipment.

With that said, wd/w wearing plate can get more "sustained parry", since oak adds a flat 20% (again, not 20% of char screen, but 60% becomes 80%).

My k/w has 54% parry and 57% crit with a couple UD items (no VN or HoE set). For farming, this clearly isn't ideal, but it isn't zero. I use plate armor and dps accessory/cape (I use plate crafted gloves, but other knights I know use leather with crit )....Again, If you use shield of valor for the dangerouss, or large, mob pulls you WILL have 100% parry rate, with (what I consider) decent crit rate for a tank. If you use hall of earth or vn sets, just use leather/chain gloves and you should still have around 45% crit rate depending on + of necklace. And for arguements sake, using dps accessories/gloves will give you enough patk to still 1 shot mobs in goblin mine.

In regards to dodging, Kanu still dodge a ton of white hits in beth gear. I don't think his dodge rate was terribly high. I'm not sure how often I dodge on my knight as I don't tank hardly at all, but I remember (and believe) that you dodge more often based on your "physical defense" WEAPON SKILL. The one at the bottom of weapon skill list.

It's my opinion that stacking dodge doesn't give a high enough return as you can't dodge spells (a huge majority of mob and boss damage). Parry is worth having somewhat high, but again, many mob/boss skills can't be parried, so not worth going all out in. I think mix of parry and crit, making use of sod/shield of valor and maybe other 3min or lower cds, to make trash easier, is the best route.

And while it definitely isn't easy, I (was) still holding aggro in runs with my low attack (plate armor all stam/def/hp stat). If you stat plate with patk stats, you have more survivability then chain gear stated similarly (or even entire in stam/hp/def) due to the parry, and will still be able to buff up over 150k attack power (kanu buffed to 140k or so wearing lvl 82 statted gear, except his shield and wep). Ofc you lose crit comapred to wearing full chain, and chances are the attack will be lower, but if you hold aggro it doesn't matter whether you have 50k or 200k as a knight.

But as already stated....I don't regularly tank so my views are based on limited experience, and lots of game knowledge.

Hey everyone, thanks for the input and feedback given. As for the defense "cap" I did not meant to say it as a factual statement but rather state an observation that several knights have experienced.

@ Zidlef It actually occurred to me when I realized that hp/mdef stats drop off healer's shell gear and nobody seems to use them. It would be great if we could ever find a good use for those junk stats from shell pulls that everyone sells to the Vendors. It would greatly reduce the cost of gearing.

Ya Need, i got tons of those too and since crafting the crap out of everything level 90/92 i get a lot of fail dual stats but still usable, just gotta find how to make it work ;-).

BTW to the OP knights, care to share some info?? unbuffed, no pets/pots etc, what are you sitting at??

I have on K/W

228K HP
69K PATK
22345 PDMG
273K PDEF
60K MDEF
69.71 % Crit
39% parry
3218 dodge
3233 main hand accuracy and 1616 off hand accuracy

850M TP on Knight side


At least other people wanting to tank would get an idea to where to be at, thx

The PDEF cap issue, is more of a hard cap. Lets say the boss has 400k PA and you're statted/buffed to 600k Pdef, the gains diminish after that 400k hard cap, iirc correct me if I'm wrong.

When it comes to parry, I agree with the notion that it is more for Wardens than Knights due to passives and self buffs. I do just fine on K/W with a little over 3k Parry. Of course its nice to parry/half every hit but that's impossible to accomplish cause even as a K/W and having enough buffs to put me over 100%, I still don't parry "everything." I believe it'll have diminishing returns, like everything else in this game, math wise.

The easiest (but not necessarily correct) explanation of "on screen 100+% parry" not translating to parrying everything is:

1) 105% char screen refers 105% chance against same level mobs....same for crit. Or at least, a long time ago, both crit and parry used to say "% chance against same lvl" -- they no longer have that tooltip anymore, but regardless of the tooltip, that's how the number displayed is calculated (there's a thread in archives showing how to precisely calculate on screen crit rates, which factors in level of target). If mobs are lvl 95 and you're lvl 92, then 105% on screen means you parry all lvl 92 attacks, not 105% against lvl 95's

2) Not all boss/mob skills are physical damage, and thus not able to be parried.

from personnal experience, it also seems like bosses white hits have a much lesser chance of been parried then trash mobs hit and by that i mean it's a much bigger difference then only levels could explain i might be wrong here, but i think crit resist reduces parry chance too.

Quoted from "pachat93"

from personnal experience, it also seems like bosses white hits have a much lesser chance of been parried then trash mobs hit and by that i mean it's a much bigger difference then only levels could explain i might be wrong here, but i think crit resist reduces parry chance too.

It doesnt have to do with crit resist. Its purely due to the "kind" of the target: mob - elite - boss. On top of the level difference, the "kind" of target affects the parry rate at received hits. Its the same reason why u gain more % of weapon skill when u hit a boss (eg. sw gate) compared to when hitting a mob (eg. harpies in new map).