Runes of Magic US / AU

any scout worth his beans is gonna be running with an xbow, which base range is 180. snipe range is 240 w/ xbow iirc, and the rest are somewhere in between(more often base than not).

if some1 could verify, that'd be great, as I can't get ingame ATM.

edit: verified ingame:

(with crossbow)
snipe: 240
shot: 180
combo: 180
WA: 225
VA: 180
piercing: 220
reflected: 180
AS: 180

bow just add 20 to all but WA(WA is static range no matter weapon iirc)

You are totally ignoring the mages buff and defensive skills in siege. Electrostatic charge absorbs 30% of damage for 60 seconds Magic barrier with a priest secondary adds another 39% reduction in magic damage etc. The mage can stun and make immobile and unable to attack with any number of skills which do not end upon damage ranging from lightning, static field, discharge and remove any effects placed on them .
The best the Scout can do is lasso which ends almost immediately when someone sneezes. The complete lack of any Scout stun skill is something that totally unbalances the class. Also the main Skill the m/p rely on in siege holy aura makes them invulnerable for 5 seconds in that time the Scout has already died 3 times.
Crossbow range which is reflected in skills is 180. Or did you forget about that recent nerf. Most Scouts currently use the crossbow because of the huge problem with bows being underpowered. The difference between 150 and 180 is meaningless the difference between 180 and 225 and 250 is not.
How is Detection a PvE problem?? It is the problem with Rogues who can remain beyond the range of the skill in hide and kill the scout with one throw.

i would love to argue on about scout in pvp, like i could argue that scout wear leather wich is more pdef and s/p can use holy aura as much as m/p can and that lasso, neck strike and wind arrow slow are crowd control, but this would probably lead to an endless discution with in the end no motion fowarded and no scout fix in the end. i also think it goes outside of what the thread tries to accomplish wich is to find a way to make scout a viable option in pve. I think getting that sorted out first would allow for an easier pvp fix after. where as if we were to fix scout in pvp first we would have to come back when you fix the pve part.


i think the main issue with balancing scout is that their strenght in pvp and in pve scale differently and it makes it almost impossible to fix both at once and should therefore be treated separatly imo.

i'll post the math on my previous suggestion when i have time or if someone feel like doing it for me would be nice

Quoted from "aardvark3"

It totally fails to deal with the Scout survivability issue at all. Scouts would still die from one shot from any other player, boss, most instance mobs and elites. The total lack of effective defensive skills or dodge still has to be addressed.

Scouts survivability is that of a mage. In it gets it through using ranged skills, so the best way to improve that is increase the range of their skills. Anymore than that would be an unbalance to every melee class who can't simple depend on range.

Quoted from "Rougetopriest"

Scouts survivability is that of a mage.

as stated before, mages get electrostatic charge. the closest thing scouts get would be arrow shield, but that does not immune CC.

mages also get an AoE CC, again, scouts get nothing like it.

we can roughly equate lasso and static field, but then mages still get lightning on top of it.

increase all skills range by 100 or double them. That's where scout survivability starts and ends.

Rogues are melee, they have evasion.
Wardens are melee, they have pdef / everything under the sun.
knights are melee, they have all the pdef
priests heal.
mages have ranged and some skill based mitigation.

blah.

Almost every class except Scout is provided with skills from Holy Aura to various blocks, dodge, defensive and evade skills which almost always insure that the first and in many cases the first few hits are easily survivable. Most of them are not so time limited that they can be used constantly and regularly used in a fight not just once. The Scout may (and that is a big maybe ) be able to shoot first at range against some classes but all other classes have a skill that easily negates that first shot. Then the total lack of any defense ends anything that happen next and the Scout dies.

For a quick test I put my Scout that was far better geared and my mage (after I bought some gods redemption tickets) both level 90 the Scout had over 500 m tp to the mages 350 . I let level 90 mobs pound on both using just their defensive skills and no fighting back. The Scout died almost immediately the mage was still alive after 30 seconds and had cleansed all bad effects it had received.

I then used the mage's stun skills and kept the mobs away far enough through lightning and other stun skills to keep the mob away for over a minute before taking any damage. Avoiding doing the killing damage to the mobs attacking the mage was harder than staying alive. The Scouts lasso skill only gave a few seconds. Kiting didn't help either. The mage was always able to purify away the slows and stuns while the Scout had nothing and was easily to force into melee.

The concept that a Scout has survivability anywhere approaching a mage is just absurd. The Scout gets hit with all the first shots, stuns and slows and can do nothing to stop them and at best lasso one mob for a very short time. The mage can blunt all the early damage then cleanse from all bad effects and still have defenses up. It can stun at range with lightning, slow all at range and stun all who get close while all a Scout can do is die.

Quoted from "bleedingblak"

increase all skills range by 100 or double them. That's where scout survivability starts and ends.

This would make scouts really fun in siege, wind arrow and kite the whole hour. Scouts may not kill a lot still but they will be extremely annoying. lol I think small steps should be taken instead of major changes and this seems like a good first one to me.

To balance the pve side, if bosses just dealt continuous pdef based aoe's but not percentage based dmg, that would force melees to restat with less patk and more stam/pdef and so make dps differences less extreme without really having to change any of the dmg formulas.

Quoted from "radeon"

To balance the pve side, if bosses just dealt continuous pdef based aoe's but not percentage based dmg, that would force melees to restat with less patk and more stam/pdef and so make dps differences less extreme without really having to change any of the dmg formulas.

not with the current burn or die meta.

that being said, PA/pdef based aoes would be nice at some point when the game isn't burn or die. that being said, they would have to take a serious look at the classes who have a good amount of both offense and defense (*cough* wardens *cough*) if this were to be implemented.

I know One problem back in Chapter 3 with the scouts and their dex modifier as far as seige goes was melee classes couldn't hit a scout. It would dodge a lot due to the dex. As a healer i was stacking at least 2 stam/dex per gear and was able to dodge some scouts attacks, but a lot of players had trouble hitting scouts. The way to take down scouts were mages. Both ranged and scouts couldnt dodge magic attacks.

But that's just via pvp.

I agree with BB. At least increasing a scouts range and detection is probabl;y the first step. I'd be happy with this at least even if they dont re-do the damage at all or at first.

But this would only "fix" scouts in PvP.