Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Cike"

mage utility skills: bubble, discharge, lightning. among others depending on combo. scouts don't get anything equivalent.

Scouts get detection, more hp, and higher pdef. Also lasso, a slow, and a skill that decreases the damage of the next attack, and a 3s stun.

Scouts are by no means powerful right now in PvP, but I don't where you all get this idea that Mages are so powerful in PvP. They're really not. M/Wdn is the one mage class that can do anything and even those aren't that good besides onetrick wonders that can burn one OP healer/tanky person down every 3 minutes.

If nothing else, is it too much to ask for purple arrows? At least give scouts some decent ammunition

Quoted from "Borella"

Scouts get detection

which is utterly useless with the current rogue situation. only good for picking off noob rogues and finding invis towers. a half-decent rogue will still kill you fairly easily.

Quoted from "Borella"

more hp

from what? strength? that's a laughable amount of HP.

Quoted from "Borella"

higher pdef

at a loss of mdef. leather is essentially a hybrid armor, which has neither extreme mdef or extreme pdef. we all know how well hybrids work in RoM, but i digress.

Quoted from "Borella"

slow, and a skill that decreases the damage of the next attack

requires melee, and only single target.

Quoted from "Borella"

Also lasso

i'd take lightning instead anyday. it's instant.

Quoted from "Borella"

and a 3s stun

requires melee, and single target. mages get discharge which is an multi-target aoe with a shorter cooldown, for same functionality.

Quoted from "Borella"

Scouts are by no means powerful right now in PvP, but I don't where you all get this idea that Mages are so powerful in PvP.

no, mages are not the most powerful, and i never said they were. however, if we are drawing comparisons to other classes, mage and rogue are the two classes closest to scout in pvp. scout can't compete with either of them, for reasons i am trying to point out. it is more of a response for the people saying that scouts are fine, rather than complaining mages are OP.

Quoted from "Cike"

Quoted from "Borella"

Scouts get detection

which is utterly useless with the current rogue situation. only good for picking off noob rogues and finding invis towers. a half-decent rogue will still kill you fairly easily.

Quoted from "Borella"

more hp

from what? strength? that's a laughable amount of HP.

Quoted from "Borella"

higher pdef

at a loss of mdef. leather is essentially a hybrid armor, which has neither extreme mdef or extreme pdef. we all know how well hybrids work in RoM, but i digress.

Quoted from "Borella"

slow, and a skill that decreases the damage of the next attack

requires melee, and only single target.

Quoted from "Borella"

Also lasso

i'd take lightning instead anyday. it's instant.

Quoted from "Borella"

and a 3s stun

requires melee, and single target. mages get discharge which is an multi-target aoe with a shorter cooldown, for same functionality.

Quoted from "Borella"

Scouts are by no means powerful right now in PvP, but I don't where you all get this idea that Mages are so powerful in PvP.

no, mages are not the most powerful, and i never said they were. however, if we are drawing comparisons to other classes, mage and rogue are the two classes closest to scout in pvp. scout can't compete with either of them, for reasons i am trying to point out. it is more of a response for the people saying that scouts are fine, rather than complaining mages are OP.

Mages have no more benefit against Rogues than Scouts do. A rogue can get right on top of a mage and kill them. At least a Scout can theoretically see the rogue before they're right on top of them sneak attacking and LB/WA'ing them.

More HP From gear. Leather has far more HP on it than Cloth does. By thousands of HP. That's why Rogues can stat 6 dex/pa and still have 70K hp while mages end up with 45K. And I'll take more pdef anyday. Mdef doesn't do much against K/M or Flame Spam.

A buffed scout is going to be just as good or better than a mage in PvP right now. Although, again, mages really aren't that great in PvP.

mages also have farther range than scouts.

detection really is nearly useless. honestly, if you are a rogue and have trouble with scouts, you might want to ask some1 how to PvP as rogue.

rogues vs. scout -> rogue wins hands down
rogue vs. mage -> rogue wins hands down
mage vs. scout -> mage wins hands down

sure, it should be a giant game of rock-paper-scissors, except...its not. scout has very little advantage over any classes. and the advantages they have, just like pve, another class can do better, for the most part.

This is all based on a supposed scout fix. I hope there is one, but better to keep expectations low.

I believe the disagreement here actually started with the case being made that scouts were not that strong before the nerf hammer. Only an opinion, but I believe that making that case to people who played through that era will gain you little empathy or sympathy.

As for the possible fix, if it happens, I hope they make scouts competitive PVE wise. The PVP implications would be somewhere between minimal to massive.

I believe mages would love to have leather gear if they could keep the stats mage based.

It was all a big misunderstanding anyways. They were told to fix the OPness of scouts, but the programmer in charge was a veterinarian dropout and interpreted 'fix' to mean neuter. And that's what he did. He neutered scouts.

Quoted

Mages have no more benefit against Rogues than Scouts do. A rogue can
get right on top of a mage and kill them. At least a Scout can
theoretically see the rogue before they're right on top of them sneak
attacking and LB/WA'ing them.

Yes, as detection's range is =\= range of rogue shadowprison/throw/combo throw it's null. You just get to see your killer slightly before you die as opposed to after you have died.

So you would then go to the next reasonable way of combating an invisible unit - to go invisible yourself. We'll use siege war's invisibility tower as an example.

Well since all classes of equal level have vision of hidden units up to 50 range then you and the rogue see yourself at the same time. What can a scout do to thwart this rogue? Neck strike.
Mages? discharge, lightning (excessively more effective)

Quoted

More HP From gear. Leather has far more HP on it than Cloth does. By
thousands of HP. That's why Rogues can stat 6 dex/pa and still have 70K
hp while mages end up with 45K. And I'll take more pdef anyday. Mdef
doesn't do much against K/M or Flame Spam.



A buffed scout is going to be just as good or better than a mage in PvP
right now. Although, again, mages really aren't that great in PvP.

pvp gears are equal in every aspect if i'm correct
And i disagree with the last statement :\ and that's a big topic to go into

Oh stop with the nonsense already. lol Scouts kicked everyone's butt in siege and pve in ch. 3 and if you don't remember that, then either you have a very poor memory or you just weren't even there. Anyways, it seems pretty plain to me that this discussion will soon be more than just theoretical.

Unfortunately, there are still some open issues which made us postpone the patch, but we'll keep on sharing small bits of the content with you throughout the wait... (this is from saito's maintenance announcement)

What else could that post in the taborean journal be other than an obvious indication that scouts are going to be buffed again. It would be total nonsense if otherwise. lol

Quoted from "Mamn00n"

Quoted

Mages have no more benefit against Rogues than Scouts do. A rogue can
get right on top of a mage and kill them. At least a Scout can
theoretically see the rogue before they're right on top of them sneak
attacking and LB/WA'ing them.

Yes, as detection's range is =\= range of rogue shadowprison/throw/combo throw it's null. You just get to see your killer slightly before you die as opposed to after you have died.

So you would then go to the next reasonable way of combating an invisible unit - to go invisible yourself. We'll use siege war's invisibility tower as an example.

Well since all classes of equal level have vision of hidden units up to 50 range then you and the rogue see yourself at the same time. What can a scout do to thwart this rogue? Neck strike.
Mages? discharge, lightning (excessively more effective)

Quoted

More HP From gear. Leather has far more HP on it than Cloth does. By
thousands of HP. That's why Rogues can stat 6 dex/pa and still have 70K
hp while mages end up with 45K. And I'll take more pdef anyday. Mdef
doesn't do much against K/M or Flame Spam.



A buffed scout is going to be just as good or better than a mage in PvP
right now. Although, again, mages really aren't that great in PvP.

pvp gears are equal in every aspect if i'm correct
And i disagree with the last statement :\ and that's a big topic to go into

The rogue has to shadowprison the scout. The rogue wouldn't even have to SP the mage, allowing more energy for actual attacks to kill the squishier mage. If you get SP'ed from 150 that gives you much more time to react with candy or PvP gloves than if you get Sneak Attacked - LB'ed - and WA'd in about 2 seconds flat from a rogue right on top of you.

And no, PvP gear is just like all gear. Cloth has far less pdef and far less HP than leather, chain, or plate. On top of that scouts have dex and thus dodge.

Mages get discharge at close range and lightning at far because they're less durable at close range than Scouts are. They're in theoretically more trouble if they allow their enemy to get close to them than a scout is. Although you can argue that scouts have much better skills for close range and running away with Wrist Attack, the slow skill, and their stun.

Either way it's a stupid argument. Neither Mages nor Scouts are great in PvP, there's not much point comparing the two. A warden, a rogue, a champ, or a k/m are going to wipe the floor with either of them except the odd m/wd that gets lucky with a flame spam every 3 mins.

@Rad

The open issue is obviously that the instance doesn't work again because they haven't released a working instance on patch day for quite some time now.

OK in chap 3 scouts did not see pdef or mdef...it was a strange dex vs dex formula. So unless you stated dex you were toast. The biggest problem was that foods stacked for scouts in a way they did not for other classes. So the nerf bat came down killed the damage they did fixed the pot stacking and made them hit pdef. Any ONE of these would have had major impact on scouts and they got all 3. And why is it that a scout is the only class that is bared from a speed rune in their weapon? Oh yeah had to slow them even more.

Back in the day before the scout nerf the combo that mage used most was mage /priest. The Holy Aura skill gave total immunity from all damage for 5 seconds which was enough to cast lightning and Flame which would kill anything out there then and its cool down was only 2 minutes. That still tops any defense that any Scout ever had. Some extra hit points from armor and extra defense can never top total immunity. The Regeneration skill kept a constant supply of hit points for the mage. Thunderstorm had a large enough area to constantly uncover rogues killed a great many that way. If you weren't the top player with the mage you just weren't playing it right.

Why does it matter whether mages or scouts are better at siege. Unless you're a M/Wd, both are awful vs Wd/W, K/M, R/M, etc.

It's PvP anyway, it really is a lot more about the person playing the character, then the gear of that character, then the class chosen. I play mage/scout, warden/druid, warrior/mage, mage/druid, and the classic, mage/warden... On each of these classes I've killed every single other class at least once, and yes, I've also died from probably every class at least once. (other than healers...) So we can compare classes to scouts all day and night, but it keeps getting brought up that a rogue will shadow prison a scout then kill it instantly, that is more an issue ofthe player or the characters gear, and not the class choice tbh. I think detection range should be much larger, and that'd be a great start to making the scout a more viable class to choose for PvP.

And Bo, you give no credit to da m/wd's D: Yea our defense is pretty sad even with briar but if m/wd's you know can't do anything other than every 3 minutes, they simply may need more practice ^.^

As for this patch being the dawn of the scout, I guess that would be great, just don't super buff them like any other class RoM tries to slightly buff. I'm all for balance but every time there is a buff it's usually over the top, meaning the next class to get buffed has to be buffed up even higher.

pls keep thread alive.

i'm excited.

This thread would normally get me fired up about rom and arguing with all the people that think they know stuff but meh.. I haven't logged in for over a week so its w/e. This game is so fun.

lol scoots won't be fixed. it's probably another nerf.

The only thing I expect to happen is the removal of ranged weapon mastery

Quoted from "SaitoHajime"

Quoted from "Mamn00n"

lol scoots won't be fixed. it's probably another nerf.

The only thing I expect to happen is the removal of ranged weapon mastery

Taborean Journal

Hype is real, don jizz your pants now BB!

question is: Is this gonna be the only scout buff?