Runes of Magic US / AU

I know I've asked about K/R in the past found here

http://board.us.runesofmagic.gameforge.c…gue/?highlight=

But now I bring something else to the table. I think I have figured out how to make an unusual class combo that I enjoy playing somewhat viable? I could go on explaining it as best I can in detail, but most who are familiar with me will know that I'll do a video instead. So I present to you my tanking concept on K/R. (Yes I know it's a lot of talking, but trust me, it's all relevant.

Another Knight/Rogue video

Quoted from "BlankMinded"

The main reason you don't see k/r anywhere in raids is, quite simply, because k/w is superior. Authoratative Deterrence is too powerful in burn-oriented groups to have any other knight (except k/p buffer/healer) in the raid. It is not because other tanking classes "can't" tank, it is because there are tanking classes that contribute far more to burns (wd/w dps tank, k/w AD, c/p tank giving dps suicide advance).

With that said, here's a few bits of information that you may not know since you state you are a "noob tank".

aggro generated = Damage Dealt x [skill multiplier] x [1 + %aggro bonus from buffs/rune]

***note: "buff/rune" bonuses are added, not multiplied. Thus, during full burn, a k/w with max skills has 3.48 multiplier from buffs, where as a k/r dual wielding has 4.02. This is only a 15.5% increase in aggro. k/w 36% passive damage skill means k/w generates more aggro (b/c of higher damage) using shared skills. The difference is made smaller by nimble hands, but 36% damage > 12% attack speed. This does not, however, factor in crit rate differences or nimble hands***

1) Holy Seal and Holy Strike have a 2.5x aggro multiplier.
2) Whirlwind Shield has a x10 multiplier.
3) During holy power explosion, Truth shield bash has a x10 multiplier (this is ignoring the other +aggro % buffs). Since truth shield bash does more damage then WWS, it is in fact the highest aggro skill in a knight's arsenal (excluding magic damage k/m tanks).

You want to make sure that, since truth shield bash is your highest aggro skill AND is a 1min cd, you get the greatest value out of your 1 use of it during a short fight. This means using threaten before TSB, as well as waiting for some (or all) debuffs on the boss. Threaten should always be maintained while tanking. At the very least, threaten is a net increase of 51.4% (all buffs but threaten), and at most 65.6% increase with no buffs on k/r.

Punishment has no inherent aggro bonus, which is why it should be removed. Even if punishment does 150k damage on a boss, a 75k holy strike generates more aggro due to the above formula. Unless of course, the goal is to deal damage (and not generate aggro), in which case wws is probably unnecessary. For a similar reason, Blind stab should be removed unless you already possess excessive amounts of aggro...which will not be the case early in a fight (or late when single recon classes have had time to "catch up" in threat).

I've thought about k/r a lot in the past, and this video is nice to get people thinking about it and maybe trying it. However, I personally believe that k/r strength lies in pvp content, not pve.

Very useful information & a lot of it will help me out.

I know K/R is underplayed due to the fact that any other knight can do the job better in terms of contributing dps to a burn oriented party & this is precisely why I enjoy K/R. I'm not a fan of short fights and instead love a good drawn out fight that tests the player's skill, endurance, and patience. Makes for a more satisfying victory when the boss eventually dies. See my DoD solo. Rage timers on bosses kind screw this up lol.

I have since figured out that my theoretical rotation was quite ineffective.
Threaten>Holy Strike x4> Punishment >Holy Seal > WWS > Blind Stab.
Most bosses are immune to the effect's of blind stab so that can be thrown out. You are correct as far as using punishment goes and it sucks. And lastly this rotation was bad due to the fact that it took 10 sconds to perform while Threaten's CD is 8 seconds. This makes it so a constant Threaten isn't being maintained. After many DoD 1st boss Normal attempts, I finally realized how important Threaten's debuff is and reformed the rotation to maintain a constant Threaten.

My improved rotation for solo play was:
Threaten>Throw>Holy Strike x4>Throw>Shadowstab.
Throw doesn't trigger GCD so is a free filler and shadowstab makes for an okay filler but could be substituted for an additional Holy Strike or even a Smash once the 70 elite is obtained. For parties, I think I should sub Shadowstab for WWS.

Regarding Truth shield bash, I didn't know it generated that much aggro. For solo, I'll still stick with my opening rotation of:
Charge>Holy Strike x2>Truth Shield Bash
Seeing as I'm not using it to maintain aggro, but instead using it for its shielding buff, this works for now. I still swap TSB, Leo Instinct, Shield of Dic, and Shield of Val in-between rotations so I'm able to always have some sort of dmg reduction.

For parties though I think I'll change it to:
Charge, Holy Strike x2, Threaten, Holy Seal, Truth Shield Bash.
This should allow me to take advantage of the extra aggro I can generate.

Still, with all of this being put out there, I can honestly say that I enjoy K/R's play style and I'm going to keep at it because it's something I enjoy. Doesn't always have to be about the deeps lol. As for pvp though, I haven't' really pvp'd much with K/R but looking at his skills makes it look fairly interesting. Who knows, maybe I'll have siege videos of both my M/P as well as my K/R.

Quoted from "Mythomage"

Get 70 elite and add it to soloplay rotation.

Shadowstep: Increases your light damage for 20% and damage reduction for 20% for 6sec. Great skill for pvp

That's the lvl 60 elite lol. But I should have it soon. Will be finishing the flower part of the 60 elite quest tomorrow and then all that's left is the beacon of courage crap.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Will take K/R tank on Erebos :D
Dang, that toon does look alot like Kirito from SAO with that outfit and duel swords. I would give you a thumbs up emote but I can't find one =/

Lol, thanks. You should see the Asuna that goes with it.

Re

Quoted from "BlankMinded"

I haven't tested, but punishment might be worth using for solo play. Since k/r has the elite to skip the consumption of the seals some times, perhaps it is worth using as a damage skill (4 seals might make it deal more damage than some other skills) for solo. Smash (with 4 seals) might be usable for the same reason...Both are still total garbage for group play though.

I wouldn't bother with shadowstab. At equal levels, Holy Strike should do more "average" damage per use due to 1) higher crit chance and 2) light damage passive from Devotion\active incrase from Holy Strength. Unless I'm overlooking something...

Also, if you're playing solo, there is no need for threaten, unless you require the patk reduction debuff. Maintaining the aggro buff from threaten is ofc unnecessary.

For party play, you want to make sure you use WWS as often as possible, since it is your second highest aggro skill and only has a 6s cooldown. Unless ofc...you already have a substantial aggro lead, then other skills can replace.

Currently Punishment and Smash aren't worth it to me due to my low crit rate. I'll have to level up and test that.

Yeah, Shadowstab is nice and all, but since Holy Strike has the much higher chance to crit, I'll probably just do that instead. (I'll take that advice. TY)

I didn't need threaten on DoD 1st boss easy, but on Normal while solo, I needed Threaten to mitigate as much damage as I could. If not, I would have died. Since the attack reduction is 54%, it's essentially halving the boss's power. Unless I'm unaware of some dmg formula.

And yes, I have since learned that when in a party, do not focus on dps, focus on aggro and when you need to do certain things like turning the boss around, using holy shield, etc. Did I mention focus on aggro lol?

Also, I'll probably be making another post in this thread about something I recently learned about K/R as well as my comparison to K/W

So far here's some of my findings on K/R's playstyle in comparison to K/W.

Elite skills are what pretty much defines how each of them work and I will admit that K/W does have a superior set of elite skills when it comes to tanking while simultaneously helping his party. K/R basically does the same but w/o party buffs. So the way I am setting this up is as follows. I'm pretty much using the K/W as the template for what a good tank is skill wise and then I'm going to add in the K/R skills that can answer to what the K/W has. (If that makes sense). Hopefully I typed and phrased this all correctly so that it's easily understandable. Also, I am in no way trying to say that K/R is better. I'm simply saying "K/W has this, but hey K/R has this at least to compensate for what K/W has.

1.1 K/W's first two elite skills (WWS Mastery and Weapon Master). Basically this increases the damage on any weapon by a large margin as well as increasing the damage done by WWS which will generate more aggro.
1.2 K/R answers this with his elites (God's Sword, Smash, and Revenge Instinct). The increased critical chance of Holy Strike means more damage. Maybe not as much as a K/W considering the fact that when their Holy Strike goes critical, it will hit harder than a K/R. However, the increased crit chance in the K/R's Holy Strike theoretically evens this out. Smash & Revenge instinct together is basically raw damage which helps compete with the the K/W's increase in damage. Smash is normally raw damage but after the 70 elite it gains the ability to place 1-2 holy seals on the target so it might become light damage.

2.1 K/W's "Quick Reflexes" is a short term Parry and Critical hit rate boost that lasts for 20seconds and has a cd of 2min.
2.2 K/R gets the skill "Crazy Blades" which is a constant crit buff that lasts for 15min with no cd. Sure it doesn't have the parry boost, but the constant crit boost more than makes up for it imo and when combined with Holy Strike's extra crit chance... well you see where I'm going.

3 K/W has "Fearless" which does exactly what it says and K/R doesn't have a natural answer to this. But an Aoth ring can be used to even the playing field.

4.1 K/W gets "Master of Parry" which is an instant cast, 2 minute cd skill that drastically increases parry and disappears after two successful blocks (or after so many seconds?) This is nice and all, but all this is doing giving the K/W the ability to reduce the damage of the next two hits whereas...
4.2 K/R gets "Leopard's Instinct" which functions similarly to MoP but instead gives +50% dodge and absorbs the next 3 hits within 10 seconds. Not reduces, but absorbs as in completely nullifies and this is why I think K/R wins in this category.

5 K/W gets "Survival Instinct" while K/R gets "Panther's Blessing." They both function identically in the sense that they both proc a 10% buff during Shield of Discipline or Valor. Only difference is K/W gets defense while K/R gets dodge.

6.1 K/W gets (Authoritative Deterrence, United Efforts, and divine punishment). AD basically allows the K/W to increase his aggro and increase all damage done to the target by 30% for 3 seconds while having a cd of 60 seconds. I don't know if this is all forms of damage from the Knight or from the Knight and party members. United Efforts looks like a 30% damage reduction aoe for all party members within range that lasts for 6 seconds and can be used every 25 seconds. Lastly DP allows punishment to do more damage and upon landing said punishment, light damage done is enhanced by 26%.
6.2 K/R cannot answer to all of this but to some it can. AD's aggro increase is answered in the form of using 2 Hatred runes as well as the ISS Lions Roar. The "Approach" buff/debuff kind of answers to everything else except the fact that United Efforts blocks damage for party members too. Buffing light damage by 20% while simultaneously decreasing all recieved damage by 20% for 6 seconds with a cool down of only 20seconds is pretty nice. Decreasing all received damage of the K/R by 20% for 6 seconds answers to United Efforts effect on the tank itself. The 20% light damage increase answers to the damage increase brought about by Divine Punishment and if AD's damage increase applies to the tank only... it is also answered to by approach in the form that approach can be used more than AD and lasts for 6 seconds as opposed to just 3.


ALSO, but wait there's more lol.

I came to the realization that K/R' might be able to be a dodge tank at times. With Leo's Instinct buffing dodge by 50% and Panther's blessing doing another 10%.... An Aoth blade cape can be added for the shadow flash skill which provides another 40%. If stacked that's +100% dodge. Or the cape can just be rotated in alternation with Leo allowing for more buff options to use when not under Leo's protection.

I also came to the realization that K/R can have some OP damage reduction.
Shield of Dicipline (63% to all dmg)
Hall of Dead Heroes (10% to all dmg)
Honorable Fighter ISS (10% to magic dmg)
Approach (20% to all damage)

That's a negation of 93% physical damage and 103% magical damage. Not to mention an Aoth Salvation cape could be used for Magic Rampart which boosts the numbers from 93%/103% up to 113%/123%. SoD lasts 30sec, HoDH lasts 15sec, Magic Rampart lasts 15sec, and Honorable fighter is passive. So for at least 15 seconds time the 93%/103% can be maintained and can be spiked further for 6 seconds if need be. Now I'm wondering if having two Aoth capes is a bad idea.... wonder if they share a cool down.

Here's a quick video showing this damage reduction in action. This is just with Shield of Discipline, Hall of Dead Heroes, and Approach. Keep in mind that this can be pushed another 30%.



One more thing....

Quoted from "BlankMinded"

I just realised that Dance of Two Blades was changed to be physical light damage (used to be regular physical damage for a long time)...Was there an aggro bonus added to it? I can't check since my client is somewhat broken wrt aggro tables. To test, put on weapons that don't have hatred runes in (can be level 1 vendor), use the skill on a monster, remove target (to prevent white hitting it after casting a skill), then check threat meter --- if threat approximately = damage done, there is no bonus. If you have 500 000 threat and only dealt 50k damage with skill, then there's a x10 bonus.

I'll have to look into it next time I'm on. If Dance of Two Blades has an aggro multiplier it might have to be considered into rotation or for maintaining good Aggro.

Well that's all for this wall of text. Hopefully putting this together while sleep deprived didn't make it too incomprehensible.

Quoted from "BlankMinded"

I just realised that Dance of Two Blades was changed to be physical light damage (used to be regular physical damage for a long time)...Was there an aggro bonus added to it? I can't check since my client is somewhat broken wrt aggro tables. To test, put on weapons that don't have hatred runes in (can be level 1 vendor), use the skill on a monster, remove target (to prevent white hitting it after casting a skill), then check threat meter --- if threat approximately = damage done, there is no bonus. If you have 500 000 threat and only dealt 50k damage with skill, then there's a x10 bonus.

Finally tested it. I saw that when I used WWS I dealt 6.1k damage and my threat was 62,000 which shows the 10x multiplier. However, Dance of Two blades does not have an aggro multiplier. the damage = threat

Proper Damage Reduction Example now that I figured out Honorable Fighter is bugged.

Quoted from "K1n6N0th1n6"

Unless I missed it somewhere you did not bring up the warrior general skills that the k/w gets. Increased pa is huge for me during the initial burn and the def buff for whenever i need surv during bosses or large trash pulls. Along with slash if you're running with any w/s.

That would be correct. I did not touch on General skills and instead focused exclusively on defining the elites. I will be bringing more to this thread as I've been tinkering a little bit more with my K/R.

Quoted from "sk8rdanman"

If you want to test your ability to hold aggro vs a dps closer to your level, I can duo some DoD with you on my lvl 62 W/R. He's sufficiently geared do DPS anything his level. I could do WA too, but I'm pretty sure some of those bosses in there have AoEs that I don't think I can tank without a healer. It's been a while since I've been in there.

Whats your toons name?