Rogue/Warlock -- PHYSICAL Build w/ Dark Damage Debuffs. - Page 2 - Multi Class Discussion

Intermediate

Mood: Smile

Wednesday, January 18th 2017, 10:08pm

Quoted from "Auros"

We've had this very conversation before Shay. I have a choice between R/Wl and R/M, can play either one, I choose to play R/M cause it's better. IMHO there is something broke about R/Wl, they should do better but they don't. Maybe I have not figured it out yet, but I tried all Patt versus Matt and a mix of Patt and Matt, mage gear versus rogue gear, and R/M still does significantly more DPS.

Wanted to add, the only R/Wl I have seen in seige is Witchit from Aurora. Aurora is midgame but w/e, it hit pretty hard but nothing special.

omg lol we have. that was like 2 years ago!
id imagine if the white hits (Dark Soul Smelt) were calculated like Ghostly Strike where it does magic damage based on physical attack, it might be viable.
EDIT: actually more than viable, would be so OP!
Let's just make all physical classes perform better as a magical version LOL. that'll solve the mage problems /s

Osha Erebos - Evilempires
Shaynoff R/S/M (98/98/85)
Rakalaka M/P/L (98/98/98)
Ffonyahs Wd/W/S (98/98/98)

Go to the top of the page

twintyphoon

Beginner

Posts: 19

Location: LA, CA

Occupation: Music Producer

Mood: Unsure

22

Wednesday, January 18th 2017, 11:36pm

Hey all, thank you for all these responses! It actually makes me feel pretty chill knowing all these tests are being done.

I ALSO HAVE FOUND SOMETHING ELSE OUT THAT MIGHT BE OF SIGNIFICANCE TOWARD THE WARLOCK/ROGUE in DEBUFFING FOR CLASSES:

White Hitters, Rogue/Warlock, and pretty much any magic user...

Apparently; and to my knowledge, does work is...

Increasing the Dark Attribute Magic Damage, aka "Ill Will", ITEM SET SKILLS, etc. increase the dark attribute resistance even farther...

With this being said, I actually with my own eyes saw the resistance level of what I thought had a cap (with my matk) at around 100k % ish...

When using "Abyss Footsteps", "Dark Soul Essence" and being in burn phase with others' buff / debuffs for the boss.... I got the magic resistance level "%" <-- whatever this may mean, from 100k % to 330k %.

NOTE: MY ILL WILL WAS INDEED MAXED, also keep in mind for the brief second I had all 10 stacks of abyss (40% dd^%) and dark soul essence, (50% dd^%) with debuffs from other locks as well...

With this in mind, my ghostly strikes in DUNGEON OF DALANIS (BECAUSE ITS AN EASY PLACE TO TEST) (I also know its not end game, by any means...) XD just too lazy to get an actual run in a hard mode instance....yet.

HIT 1.1m UB, to 2.4m with only that debuff and the target was weakened. (By the warlocks WWC).

Again, I have no idea what happened, lol. All I know is...it happened.

Waiting for that mixtape to drop like...

Keentech-- 98C/98P/60W/50M
Earthblitz-- 98D/60W/60R

The old Reni--Mithras

Go to the top of the page

ruisen2000

not a wallet warrior

Posts: 4,052

Location: here

Mood: Blink

23

Thursday, January 19th 2017, 1:23am

We couldn't reproduce the results you guys got from casters.
We tested on a healer with some ~340k mdef, without the debuff, my fireball hits around 65k, and with the debuff around 74k on average.
We tried with flame afterwards, and again the debuff just added around a flat 9k increase to how hard I was hitting the healer.
With W/M since the variation in damage was around 30k between white hits we couldn't tell any difference between having and not having the debuff.

Also, with the debuff, I was being resisted just as much as without the debuff, so I'm not sure its even actually magic resistance.

We tried this with the wl/r having around 100k matk as well, and then with ~135k matk, but that didnt seem to make much of a difference either.

Noblewarrior
lv 98/98/89/60 M/W/P/K
Kikosi 98/50/60 Wl/Ch/M
the fail clothie tank~

Inactive

Go to the top of the page

twintyphoon

Beginner

Posts: 19

Location: LA, CA

Occupation: Music Producer

Mood: Unsure

24

Thursday, January 19th 2017, 1:48am

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

We couldn't reproduce the results you guys got from casters.
We tested on a healer with some ~340k mdef, without the debuff, my fireball hits around 65k, and with the debuff around 74k on average.
We tried with flame afterwards, and again the debuff just added around a flat 9k increase to how hard I was hitting the healer.
With W/M since the variation in damage was around 30k between white hits we couldn't tell any difference between having and not having the debuff.

Also, with the debuff, I was being resisted just as much as without the debuff, so I'm not sure its even actually magic resistance.

We tried this with the wl/r having around 100k matk as well, and then with ~135k matk, but that didnt seem to make much of a difference either.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Also, with the debuff, I was being resisted just as much as without the debuff, so I'm not sure its even actually magic resistance.

We tried this with the wl/r having around 100k matk as well, and then with ~135k matk, but that didnt seem to make much of a difference either.

@noble Are you making sure to use the buff at least 3 times?? apparently the buff keeps going up and up until cap is reached based off your own matk.

I have far different results, but I am casting the buff 3-4 times..

Waiting for that mixtape to drop like...

Keentech-- 98C/98P/60W/50M
Earthblitz-- 98D/60W/60R

The old Reni--Mithras

Go to the top of the page

ruisen2000

not a wallet warrior

Posts: 4,052

Location: here

Mood: Blink

25

Thursday, January 19th 2017, 1:53am

Yeah Shaynoff said he was casting it 3 times.

When you guys tested Soul Poison Fang with the mages, was it in DoD as well? And approx how hard were the mages actually hitting?

Noblewarrior
lv 98/98/89/60 M/W/P/K
Kikosi 98/50/60 Wl/Ch/M
the fail clothie tank~

Inactive

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "ruisen2000" (Jan 19th 2017, 2:24am)

Go to the top of the page

SHAYdynasty

Intermediate

Posts: 222

Mood: Smile

26

Thursday, January 19th 2017, 2:33am

Here's our testing for Soul Poisoned Fang

338,050 - Mdef of healer, LvL 98 Soul Poisoned Fang stacked 3 times.

Warmage with only Lava weapon
135k to 150k hits regardless if target had SPF or not

Like Noble said, the hits were fluctuating so much that there did no seem much of a difference. This is across the board with my warlock at varying mattack levels starting at 80k, 121k with just basic foods, 153k with surge and Soldier's Attack.

Now with a M/W using flame no buffs.
174k before, 185k after SPF

My warlock had 134k MA and with buffs, 161k (i had essence of magic this time) = no notable difference in damage.

Fireball
65k, 76k After SPF

Same warlock buffs.

Perhaps there is some random multiplier with other buffs or maybe it only works for PvE, but this initial test is not looking promising.

Osha Erebos - Evilempires
Shaynoff R/S/M (98/98/85)
Rakalaka M/P/L (98/98/98)
Ffonyahs Wd/W/S (98/98/98)

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "SHAYdynasty" (Jan 19th 2017, 2:39am)

Go to the top of the page

twintyphoon

Beginner

Posts: 19

Location: LA, CA

Occupation: Music Producer

Mood: Unsure

27

Thursday, January 19th 2017, 2:40am

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Yeah Shaynoff said he was casting it 3 times.

When you guys tested Soul Poison Fang with the mages, was it in DoD as well? And approx how hard were the mages actually hitting?

Actually, no, it was not in DoD. It was in VoR NM. There were mages, (Mage/Scouts) and their fire and wind arrows at the same time (70 elite) was going from 210k crits --> 345-350k crits (with SPF in effect)

Waiting for that mixtape to drop like...

Keentech-- 98C/98P/60W/50M
Earthblitz-- 98D/60W/60R

The old Reni--Mithras

Go to the top of the page

ruisen2000

not a wallet warrior

Posts: 4,052

Location: here

Mood: Blink

28

Thursday, January 19th 2017, 6:22am

Just tried it on 2 bosses in vale, no difference on W/M compared to all previous runs without it.
All the melee swear their crit rate went through the roof with wl/r debuff though lol

Noblewarrior
lv 98/98/89/60 M/W/P/K
Kikosi 98/50/60 Wl/Ch/M
the fail clothie tank~

Inactive

Go to the top of the page

bilalab

Intermediate

Posts: 436

29

Thursday, January 19th 2017, 3:12pm

Quoted from "Magío"

Quoted from "bilalab"

Wisdom doesn't seems to help as much vs resistance, atleast against players. my mage has 2xwis stat per gear for the 7 pcs pvp gear and it still gets resisted a lot against players that have the resistance stat in 3 or more accessory... its to the point where I got only 2-3 flame to register during a flame spam. BTW, the other person hardly had any wis stated.

What? Aren't Honor Accessories only Critical Resistances? Either you're confused or there's items I've never heard of. Post a screenshot of the items you're talking about please.

Resistance and Critical Resistance are totally different.
Wisdom: increases MP, MPREGEN, MDEF, MACC, RESISTANCE and HEALING BONUS.

not talking about the gear, I was talking about the runes that go into the accessories only that inc resistance.

BTW nice try to getting me to log in... not gonna happen till they come out with something amazing that I would just want to look at myself.

Go to the top of the page

SHAYdynasty

Intermediate

Posts: 222

Mood: Smile

30

Thursday, January 19th 2017, 4:21pm

Very underwhelming.

Tried 4 total bosses, both on boss 2 and 3 of VoR hard.
Tried both warmage and m/w, for both bosses.

Warmage seemed like no difference.
Mage/Warrior, if there was difference it was certainly not 70% (unless mage burn is terrible on 3rd to begin with, which it shouldn't be)
I think our wl/r had around ~160k mattack? will have to confirm later.
I will post a video later as well for VoR 3rd.

However, the physical dps did see a pretty considerable increase in crit rate, where our magical dps did not.
On 3rd boss.
I had 4 Wound Attacks, so 12 total hits, 11 of them crit.
3 Blind Spots, 3 crit.
Our S/WD had 3 total snipes and 3 Charged Chops. All Crit.
That is pretty significant. Even though it was just on one boss, the likely hood of all of physical dps seeing such a significant increase in crit is very low. (We even tried D/R on a different previous run and there was maybe a 5% increase in crit, usually we are all at 50-60% crit.)

Like i said, will post the video when I can later today.

Osha Erebos - Evilempires
Shaynoff R/S/M (98/98/85)
Rakalaka M/P/L (98/98/98)
Ffonyahs Wd/W/S (98/98/98)

This post has been edited 3 times, last edit by "SHAYdynasty" (Jan 19th 2017, 4:44pm) with the following reason: formatting and clarification

Go to the top of the page

ruisen2000

not a wallet warrior

Posts: 4,052

Location: here

Mood: Blink

31

Thursday, January 19th 2017, 5:33pm

Quoted from "SHAYdynasty"

Very underwhelming.

Tried 4 total bosses, both on boss 2 and 3 of VoR hard.
Tried both warmage and m/w, for both bosses.

Warmage seemed like no difference.
Mage/Warrior, if there was difference it was certainly not 70% (unless mage burn is terrible on 3rd to begin with, which it shouldn't be)
I think our wl/r had around ~160k mattack? will have to confirm later.
I will post a video later as well for VoR 3rd.

However, the physical dps did see a pretty considerable increase in crit rate, where our magical dps did not.
On 3rd boss.
I had 4 Wound Attacks, so 12 total hits, 11 of them crit.
3 Blind Spots, 3 crit.
Our S/WD had 3 total snipes and 3 Charged Chops. All Crit.
That is pretty significant. Even though it was just on one boss, the likely hood of all of physical dps seeing such a significant increase in crit is very low. (We even tried D/R on a different previous run and there was maybe a 5% increase in crit, usually we are all at 50-60% crit.)

Like i said, will post the video when I can later today.

Whole experiment was worth it just because we got to try mage, even thought my mage failed pretty bad :thumbsup:

Noblewarrior
lv 98/98/89/60 M/W/P/K
Kikosi 98/50/60 Wl/Ch/M
the fail clothie tank~

Inactive

Go to the top of the page

bilalab

Intermediate

Posts: 436

32

Thursday, January 19th 2017, 8:08pm

the 20% inc in dps was against mobs and bosses in PoM. I didn't think to check crit rate on phy test when I did it, I was just comparing values before and after which did not inc for phy.

Go to the top of the page

SHAYdynasty

Intermediate

Posts: 222

Mood: Smile

33

Thursday, January 19th 2017, 8:16pm

Quoted from "bilalab"

the 20% inc in dps was against mobs and bosses in PoM. I didn't think to check crit rate on phy test when I did it, I was just comparing values before and after which did not inc for phy.

I do think there was a difference when the Mage/Warriors tested it. Just not on warmage like we were hoping, and definitely not a drastic increase of ~70% like OP has mentioned.

Osha Erebos - Evilempires
Shaynoff R/S/M (98/98/85)
Rakalaka M/P/L (98/98/98)
Ffonyahs Wd/W/S (98/98/98)

Go to the top of the page

twintyphoon

Beginner

Posts: 19

Location: LA, CA

Occupation: Music Producer

Mood: Unsure

34

Friday, January 20th 2017, 11:02pm

Hmm... after a couple more times of testing, it appears that it has to be elemental damage...(not proc'd by white hits) to have a difference in damage.. Which is weird because last time I checked, it didn't seem to care which type of elemental damage it was, proc'd by white hits; or not. Though the test for the war/mage, knight/mage, etc, wasn't as thorough as the test for things like say, Rogue/Warlock (which still does have a significant increase with the buff) as well as mage/warriors, and mage/scouts.

Quoted from "SHAYdynasty"

I do think there was a difference when the Mage/Warriors tested it. Just not on warmage like we were hoping, and definitely not a drastic increase of ~70% like OP has mentioned.

Waiting for that mixtape to drop like...

Keentech-- 98C/98P/60W/50M
Earthblitz-- 98D/60W/60R

The old Reni--Mithras

Go to the top of the page