Runes of Magic US / AU

Ok, so people like scouts and rogues who rely very heavily on critting... what happens to them? What's the point of having gear or skills devoted to helping you crit if you can't? See, what you're trying to do is nerf rogues, scouts, and mages. Now consider for a second that the scout class is still more often than not underpowered, especially until lvl 55+.

What we need is less ultra stats in the game. I mean come on...

At level 52 with most of my gear stated, I have 8k hp. Then I see a level 55 with 25k hp just because he ran HoTo. So he one hits me and I can't even get his hp down a few percent. The problem isn't criting, it's the insane amounts of stats endgame. Why should someone three levels higher be able to one hit me every time considering the fact that I spent time and about 2 million gold statting? I think that stats should get nerfed and along with that, you'll see a drop in nuke damage.

Quoted from "HouseMD;439886"

1. 60% is just the power rogue/scout gets with their buff, even without it i still crit people like a mofo. And to other people that would probably only reduce crit to about a 20% bonus from rings... Which is still a heavy hit and just too hard.

Im not talking about crit damage im talking about crit chance. If you have gear the reduces an enemies crit chance by 60% you effectively remove crit from pvp or atleast bring it down to a reasonable number. It is an indirect way to nerf 3 classes. Which is a lot better than just flat out nerfing 3 classes.

you sound like you've never i played a PvP server.

crits are what make 2 of the classes work.
pets are semi balanced when you get to late game.

the only thing i semi-agree with is knights.
they have no chance in PvP.
they cant get close enough to mages and scouts.
healers out heal them.
and rouges dps is crazy (not quite OP thou).

but your arguement is invalid since you forgot to mention the fact they they boost there own armour beyond what the face value is for it.
the only way to fix this is either give them more stam/defence/parry stats to greatly survive OR give them a greater stam/str/patk stat to increase surviveability and dps which would fix their aggro problem.
fixing parry would also be great also.

the number 1 thing you forget is even when you are in a PvP server, PvE comes first.

The rogue dps in PvP is OP. There is something broken when our K/S with 250k Pdef and 140k health is dead before Shadow Prison wares off, killed by a single rogue. There is gear in the game with crit resistance, just check the venders in OS. Too bad its all level 50 gear. It is all considered PvP gear. Give plate crit resistance, it should be hard to stick that knife through those thick layers of steel, that would give knights a fighting chance in pvp and not really affect pve.

Quoted from "Amberwave;440178"

The rogue dps in PvP is OP. There is something broken when our K/S with 250k Pdef and 140k health is dead before Shadow Prison wares off, killed by a single rogue.

I don't wanna say these are conflicting statements, but it's either/or.

I personally, would not consider rogues op....I play one...have from the start...haven't even bothered to get that 3rd class yet because I can't get the first two to level cap so why bother with a 3rd? Anyway, back to the original topic. I don't consider them op, simply because more often than not, I can count how many kills I get in siege on 2 hands....while I'd need about 5 other people, including counting on their toes, to add up how many times I get killed. So...this takes us back to the fact that, for some reason, PDEF is not being factored-in on plate armor. I'd go so far as to say that if any player has 250k pdef, I shouldn't even be able to hit them...or at best hit them for little or no dmg.

*Keep in mind that I don't have end-game gear that is fully statted, but I'm not 'sub-par' in that category either.* (26kpatk, 43khp to give a ballpark figure)

FIX PDEF

Sorry for my English and grammar moved to the states a few years ago.
What so many people seem to forget about this game is that everyone is geared different. Someone who has invested either thousands of real money, or thousands of hours gearing is going to have a clear advantage over someone that has not. If you are running around in siege with less that 50k HP and wonder why you are getting one shot by the 90k plus mage, rogue, scout with way better gear than yours, well i will tell you the answer, you need to upgrade your gear. There has been plenty of times my guild has sieged against a guild with "ONE" OP player whether it be a mage, knight, rogue, scout, priest, warrior, or druid, and that ONE player wins the siege for them because he out gears my guild drastically. If you want a game with equal PVP this is not the game for you, because the person with the better gear will win 95% of the time.
Now before everyone starts crying, i do believe that damage does need to be decreased by say half or even more of what it is now to make fights last say 5-10 seconds instead of the now 2-5 seconds. At the same time heals will have to be decreased by an equal amount.
However some of the suggestions i am reading are not thought out well, such as take crit out of PVP. Why when so many people spent countless hours/lots of money to gear towards crit. You can not just take it out or reduce the damage a crit does. I for one gear towards crit and crit damage by making sure my rings are always +12 and whatever gear i build has crit on it. So why take away from all the time someone spends gearing a certain way when another player does not want to gear that way.
O and to the person who says that said knight with 140k HP and 250k p def, was killed in the time it takes for shadow prison to ware off, i don't think that is true, my guild was fighting against a guild with a similar geared K/S who was buffed to 145k HP and with 3-4 well geared rogues and warriors it took about 10-15 seconds to kill him. Now there may be something you are leaving out such as a mage or druid maybe also attacking the said knight since knights m def is so low, or maybe the rogue was extremely well geared who knows.
Anyway the point of this is that you cannot take away the hard earned time/money that people have invested in the game by taking away stats/procs, instead the best solution would be to reduce overall damage by 50-75% and heals by an equal amount so that fights are more enjoyable instead of 1-2 shot. This solution would affect everyone equally and would not hurt those that have spent more money/time to progress in the game.

Why is this under the PVE section anyway...? Needs to be moved to PVP or under general PLZ.

yes, this is in wrong section Jagor. There are some good ideas in this thread. I think the best idea is to reduce overall damage and healing done.

It's as much about class imbalance as it is gear.
Before the time of Siege Mages were said to be OP in chapter 1 and 2.
Chapter 3 was the time of the Scout.
Now Chapter 4 is the time of the Rogue.
RW is trying to balance classes but imo are not doing a very good job as of yet. I have mentioned it before in the forums that they are balancing based only on instances. When they do that it completely destroys the balance and fun of PVP/Siege.
It can't always be attributed to some being better geared. I am very well geared and lvl 67 and I can't survive more then 2-3 hits against a lvl 62 Rogue of lower gear. Sometimes they haven't even come out of hide before I'm laying on the ground dead. Not to mention it is near impossible to target them unless your a mage and use your AOE spells.
The way they increased Rogue damage is a bad joke for PVP, they gave super burst damage to a class that is invisible until they strike you. To make matters worse normally their first hit is a root or stun. RW may have made Rogues much better for boss fights in an instance, but as for PVP they completely knocked it out of balance.

Quoted from "turboreaper666;440269"

It's as much about class imbalance as it is gear.
Before the time of Siege Mages were said to be OP in chapter 1 and 2.
Chapter 3 was the time of the Scout.
Now Chapter 4 is the time of the Rogue.
RW is trying to balance classes but imo are not doing a very good job as of yet. I have mentioned it before in the forums that they are balancing based only on instances. When they do that it completely destroys the balance and fun of PVP/Siege.
It can't always be attributed to some being better geared. I am very well geared and lvl 67 and I can't survive more then 2-3 hits against a lvl 62 Rogue of lower gear. Sometimes they haven't even come out of hide before I'm laying on the ground dead. Not to mention it is near impossible to target them unless your a mage and use your AOE spells.
The way they increased Rogue damage is a bad joke for PVP, they gave super burst damage to a class that is invisible until they strike you. To make matters worse normally their first hit is a root or stun. RW may have made Rogues much better for boss fights in an instance, but as for PVP they completely knocked it out of balance.

Really you are a P/S it looks like from your sig, so your p def is probably pretty low and it would not surprise me if you are 3 shot. Now switch to P/K and if you are well geared like you say you should be at 100k+ HP have really good p def and then a rogue should not be 3 shotin you, and if he is than A. you are not as well geared as you think B. the Rogue is very well geared. or C. you don't use urgent heal.
Rogues are not the problem every well geared class can 1-3 shot another except maybe a knight or warden, although i have seen K/S 1 shot people with shot. Hell just last night in siege there way a mage standing at range hitting everyone for 20-30k hits with thunderstorm every sec killing everyone in his/her path except for priests, is it because the game is imbalanced? No its because he/she was very well geared with T11 staff and uber gear/stats. Is the game imbalanced? Yes, but not that bad. A huge part of PVP is the gear you are wearing.
FYI there are great things you can get in siege to pull rogues out of hide and even stun them a few seconds our guild uses the crap out of them.

Quoted from "Jagor;440273"

Really you are a P/S it looks like from your sig, so your p def is probably pretty low and it would not surprise me if you are 3 shot. Now switch to P/K and if you are well geared like you say you should be at 100k+ HP have really good p def and then a rogue should not be 3 shotin you, and if he is than A. you are not as well geared as you think B. the Rogue is very well geared. or C. you don't use urgent heal.
Rogues are not the problem every well geared class can 1-3 shot another except maybe a knight or warden, although i have seen K/S 1 shot people with shot. Hell just last night in siege there way a mage standing at range hitting everyone for 20-30k hits with thunderstorm every sec killing everyone in his/her path except for priests, is it because the game is imbalanced? No its because he/she was very well geared with T11 staff and uber gear/stats. Is the game imbalanced? Yes, but not that bad. A huge part of PVP is the gear you are wearing.
FYI there are great things you can get in siege to pull rogues out of hide and even stun them a few seconds our guild uses the crap out of them.

Answer to A
- The lowest stat I have is a few temple mods and the majority are tomb/bunker/crimson. All my gear is lvl 60-62 and tiered to 6 or 7. I have 90k pdef /110 mdef buffed / 90k hp as a level 67 P/S.
Answer to B
See answer one. There cannot be a better geared lvl 62 rogue, maybe equal, but not really better because they couldn't be using lvl 65-67 gear at lvl 62.
Answer to C
Rogues stun, and root. Priests can't UH or anything else. Then it's 2-3 shots and dead.

On my P/K it was closer to 4 hits by a Rogue as I described, because of the 128k pdef I could buff up to. But dead is still dead, and again Casters can't cast against Rogues when interrupted.

As a healer, it is frustrating that I rarely have a chance to heal anybody before they're dead. Siege for me is pretty much limited to sitting on a tower (crashing) until we win, or healing a gate (crashing even more) until we lose. It becomes boring for everyone when siege is tab-shoot, tab-shoot. It has almost nothing to do with skill as a player (the whole point of PvP in ANY game, last I knew) and because lag and crashes are so bad, it may or may not have anything to do with your gear either. I've seen for myself how quickly Knights go down sometimes, and if 150k HP Knights are being downed in a few short seconds by lesser geared players... can anyone spell L-A-M-E?

Knights should be the ultimate defenders. You may go around them, but you don't try to take them down alone. Nobody (except Chuck Norris) can stab an 8-inch blade through forged iron. In the 16th century, crossbow bolts and even bullets from early firearms could not penetrate plate armor except at point-blank range. Why did knights use a lance for their initial charge? Because a sharpened metal object propelled by the power of a charging horse was needed just to penetrate their opponents' armor! Knights should be the ones to hold a tower, hold a bridge, or defend the gate. Even alone and out-numbered, they don't go down fast, and will at least buy you some time.

Warriors should be the primary, front-line damage dealers in siege. Just as a Knight gives up mobility and attack power for incredible defense, a warrior makes the reverse trade. It should be nearly impossible to take down a knight without at least one warrior involved. Those big, two-hand weapons are the only way to get through that armor.

Scouts should avoid melee contact, especially with Knights and Warriors, but also with Rogues and Wardens. They may be able to skirmish a little with Rogues and other Scouts, and dance circles around Knights, but mostly their job is to keep others at a distance. They should be the ones covering the main attack force of Warriors and Knights, protecting them from enemy Mages and Scouts.

Mages should be a significant part of the offense. They are able to bypass the defenses of a Knight, to a degree, by dealing magical damage. Mages should still be glass cannons. They can take out even a Knight faster than a Warrior could, but if anyone (including said Knight) hits them with physical damage, they should go down quickly. Seriously... they're running around the battle field in a robe.

Rogues should be the only class really able to do anything solo. A Rogue should NOT be part of the main attack. They shouldn't be the ones to take towers, break down gates, or kill honor guards. Their main job should be to kill the enemy Priests, Mages, and Druids, and engage or distract their Scouts.

Druids and Priests have different roles, but primarily, their job is to keep the Knights and Warriors alive. Healers can't run around looking after Scouts or Rogues. And Mages fall too fast for heals to make a difference. Watch out for Rogues though; they will kill you. Your cloth robes do nothing to protect you against those shiny knives. Priests may want to keep a shield and mace handy, just in case.

Wardens are complicated, but I really think they should be designed to live up to their name. The name has very protective connotations, with synonyms including 'Keeper' and 'Guardian'. In PvP, a Knight's defenses only help himself. He cannot draw aggro, or trick humans into attacking him. But a Warden's defensive abilities extend beyond himself. He can, through his pet, be in two places at once. Because of this, Wardens should be the ones to watch over their weaker companions, specifically, all cloth-wearers, and protect them from enemy Rogues or Scouts. I think Wardens should also function this way in PvE, providing protection for the whole party, and I do not want to see them become just an elven Knight.

This is my ideal for Siege. I can think of several ways to accomplish this, but to work within the current framework, it boils down to:

1. Reduce inflicted damage (and heals) by a lot. I'm thinking something close to 90%. Leave crit rate normal, but crit damage is also scaled down. This reduction is really quite reasonable, IMO. In PvE, players fight bosses with 5mil+ HP, and mobs with 500k+ HP, then in siege they fight players with 50-150k HP, but they do the same damage. No wonder we all get one-hit so often.

2. Differentiate between armor types and weapon types. Don't merely compare straight physical attack against physical defense. Give players with certain weapons a penalty against their own Patk if their opponent has heavy armor. I obviously haven't tested anything, so these numbers are merely for the sake of example, but something along these lines:



I'd also like to see a similar reverse scaling for magic, where casters get a Matk bonus when attacking metal armors. Metal does conduct heat and electricity much better than cloth or leather.

More changes would be necessary of course, and the classes are still imbalanced in PvP, but those two changes would go a long way toward making siege fun. Of course, fixing the bugs so that we had less lag and crashes, and if those few players would stop hacking, that would also make it a lot more fun.

In RoM, players who spend the most in CS will always tend to dominate PvP. I do not propose to change that, but at least players who really, really know their class should have a fighting chance. And everyone, no matter their class, should have a specific and important role to play in Siege. I want to see World chat messages saying, "______ now recruiting! We need Wardens, Warriors, and Knights for Siege! PM me".

Sorry for the length. There is much to discuss regarding siege.

I think that it should be in the PvP discussions because this is about PvP.
Also, I agree with HouseMD's last post

I like your comment on the idea about having crits be dependent upon the area in where players were actually hit. for crits to count as such being hit in the back or when there knocked down instead of a percentage base. im sorry to say that crits seem to have been the whole debate of this thread ever since my first comment(sorry for that) but it seems that this game does have a serious over buffing problem where it allows players to create situations in where supposedly uncommon results are more frequent then the norm. This is one of a small group of games that gives players an extreme sense of upgrading beyond even normal limitation especially for PVP in where a hierarchy is being dependent on the speed and accuracy(i mean basically crit chance) of the players instead of the counter balance such as defense. unfortunately a debuff to the crit mechanic will not solve the problem as the game over time will give players the ability to compensate this debuff with even more upgraded stats and gear( were up to +16 now in gear) so the only solution would either be the complete removal of crits from pvp or the removal of all contributing stats in PVP (PVE would remain unaffected and unchanged).
-this post has little unearthing of any new facts or theories im just showing that after analyzing, my opinion on the matter has changed, Mr. House i have changed to the affirmative for the deletion of crit from PVP or the contributing stats-