Runes of Magic US / AU

Been playing rom for a long, long time and would like to start a discussion on crit resistance. And before anyone says anything about it, I have read and calculated crit % using the "formula" found in other threads, but this number only calculates the number shown on CHARACTER screen, and does not factor in additional crit resistance (such as on bosses or players with crit resist buffs/gear).

First off, do player and boss crit resistance work the same? Rom-welten lists crit resitance for bosses in % values, where player screens only show fixed values -- perhaps this results in 2 different formulas being used.

And the more important question is how does it actually work? The straight forward assumption for bosses is Multiply the values. If you have 75% crit rate, and a boss has 40% crit resistance, then you *should* have (.75 x (1-0.4) ) = (.75 x .6) = 45% crit rate. However, is this actually the case? I recall doing some tests back in lvl 75/77 cap in KBN, which went something along the lines of this:

• fight first boss kbn with a given crit rate and % (unbuffed). Record number of physical dmg skills used, number of crit hits and calculate crit % on all skills used. repeat 3-10 times for average value. I remember the number being rougly 30% when I tried.
  
• buff up, use crit pots, etc etc. This increased my crit by over 1000 points, but since I had 5.5k+ crit, this results in very very small % increase on character screen. Fighting boss again, record values, get average,.

Strange thing was that my crit hit average went from 30% to 45% according to scrutinizer -- significantly larger then the 3% or w/e it was on char screen. I'm willing to retest in bethomia for example to get new values and see how increasing crit rate effects the Actual number of crit hits, but was hoping that perhaps someone else has done testing themselves and can share their thoughts/data/opinions.
I have seen and heard numerous players state that "its not worth sacrificing large amounts of patk to get crit rate", or "no point stacking crit after you get 75%". I personally don't believe that, I try to stack more crit then physical attack -- don't get the wrong idea though, I still have 110k patk unbuffed as wd/s or w/wd, close to that on my wd/w.

I'd like to know other players' opinions on crit resistance and how it effects damage output, preferably supported by some form of data.

So I went and did tests in bethomia anyways. I apologize for not posting and screen shots. Test was as follows: fight boss without any pots, get average crit % value, repeat again using crit potions/buffs and get 2nd value and compare. For the record, my c/r had 7150 crit or so and my c/wl had 7297 iirc during these tests (I do not yet have the c/wl 70 elite but will test again when I get it).

Initial tests were performed on my c/r, without crit potions. I fought first boss bethomia easy, recorded values from my scrutinizer and got an average crit. I looked at shadowstab, attack, rune pulse, rune overload, imprisonment pulse and throw. There were well over 300 of said attacks combined after a number of runs, and only 37% crit rate.

I then swap to C/wl, (who gets crit buff) and began using critical hit rate potions during the fight. I looked at rune pulse, attack, imprisonment pulse for my data. Can't remember how many attacks there were on this side as I was in a bit of a hurry. End result was 45% crit rate.

37% vs 45% when the crit increase was 800 points. To put it in perspective, 800 points is roughly only 2% increase when you have 7k base.

I will obtain the lvl 70 c/wl elite skill tomorrow. This will ideally show an even greater difference in my effective crit hit rate just for some convincing numbers to post.

As per n old post on crit formula, "inherent" crit resist is 30xLevel + 300 -- crit resistances aside, this is why you crit less often on higher monsters and more often on lower ones such as rt bosses vs. cb bosses (neither of which have crit resist afaik). I can accept this form of scaling for me for monsters without "additional" crit resist, but the calculation for those with it is still elusive

As for getting actual difference, I'll start recording numbers when I run bethomia easy first boss and see if we can find any discernable patterns. Hopefully some other players gather information as well to help speed things up, unless someone can actually "read" the .fdb files and find where and how in the damage calculations crit resistance appears.

Its also interesting how the player crit resist is behaving strangely because I know a wd/d (who have passive skill to increase crit resist) who says he does in fact notice a difference. Would be curious to see the information collected and then gather some from warden/druids and see if it is simply the honor gear itself that does not work properly, or the entire crit resist system in pvp.

Got the ch/wl 70 elite now -- testing with 9797 crit rate shall ensue

Did some testing on a wd/d last night. The passive granted him 2120 crit resist. With my elite on, there was roughly 70% crit rate on ATTACK while hitting him, compared to 55% without it (77.32% vs 84.03% on char screen). While the numbers don't quite match, our initial theory is:

working crit = plyer crit - target crit resist
"effective crit" = ((working crit - 30xtarget level - 300)/working crit +1 ) /2

There was a noticable difference for the wd/d passive (at least for us), however I intend to afk overnight beating up a wd/d spirit of the oak (who also gets the 2120 crit resistance) to get a few thousand auto hits to get more accurate information.

The one issue with the above is it does not work with boss % resistance values....

Haven't had a chance to gather much data on my c/wl since I've been busy dying in bethomia to Lyong on my wd/w/s.

Thought I would mention, however, that we recently got a d/r his 60 elite and that crit resist debuff is big - 1050 or something at level 55? It goes up per level, and to clear up the confusion the skill is NOT % based, the number (witouth the %) is how much the skill reduces crit resist. This appeared to have made a big difference in our party dps as bosses died quicker then usual.

@Ruisen2000

Click on player's name in the list of scrutinizer. This will open a window displaying various information. The window is divided into 3 secions:

Top portion is DMG DONE by all skills. It shows the number of times used, total damage done, average dmg and overall % dmg this skill contributed to your total dmg. You can scroll down via dragging those blue/green things up/down. The grey squares are buttons, clicking them opens the 2nd/3rd part of the window.

2nd Part: Number of crit/dodge/resist/miss/parry/normal hits on all targets. This is for the specific skill you clicked the grey square for. Shows # of tht kind of hit, total dmg done with tht type, average damage, and % frequency. This will show the skill info for ALL TARGETS.

3rd Part: Monster specific information for the skill used. Shows Number of times skill hit the target, total damage done (includes normal/crit/miss etc.) MInumum hit < average hit < maximum hit.

Hovering over "critical" in the 2nd prt of the window will show you how much dmg skill A did with crits as well as the % relative to that specific monster.
Example : 11. Suidoxe 118k o118k #1 (50%) means i hit player Suidoxe with #1 charged chop for a total dmg of 118k and average 118k per hit with 50% crit rate. Hovering over normal shows the other #1 hit on him (50% normal, 50% crit).

Thanks for posting, thought this thread was pretty much dead, but I guess some people are still interested.

I've never heard of this "irregulary crit after 70%" -- What I do know about are things about random number generators and "theoretical probability vs actual results".

The time where you crit more then your friend could be as a result of this irregular crit rate, but from the sounds of it is is simply the random number generator giving you above normal (or your friend below normal) crits. When you flip a coin 100000 times, it *should* be 50% heads, 50% tails. But that doesn't stop you from getting 10 heads in a row. That is to say, you could be like a mage we had during a bethomia hard run and crit 10 flames in a row doing 1.9m dps, or be like me and get 20% crit rate on charged chop despite having over 80% crit rate. Actual values based on probabilities such as your crit rate will sometimes be below the theoretical amount (by a little or a lot) and sometimes above the theoretical amount, and balance each other out in the long run -- this means you might see strange results on individual boss fights (10 heads in a row) but over a large number of trials/fights it evens out.

Allow me to also mention that not all bosses have the same crit resistance so it is possible that the extra 6% crit affects your friend more on one fight then it does others.

With all that said, if someone posts a significantly large amount of data that convinces me of it, I too could believe in the 70% crit irregularity, but until then I'm more likely to pass things off as random number generator hickups.