Runes of Magic US / AU

"All you have to do to clear Grotto is reroll to "viable" classes and gear enough to bring the deeps. I know that's easier said than done, but it can be done. Do I think it's fun, or good, or well-designed? Nope. But it is doable."


I have been reading this thread and I find it very interesting and informative. Although when I read the above statement, it really made me think about what the mindset is for a lot of people that play this game. I do not think that you should have to reroll to be viable. That is the biggest problem with ROM as far as I am concerned. The classes are so out of balance that it is getting rather old. When people think this way and start rerolling to the "viable" classes, why would Runewalker or whomever want to balance anthing. They make a ton of money when everyone starts restatting a new class so from their perspective why would they want to change anything.

This game has so many classes to choose from and when we find one that we like to play and we are prepared to spend real money to gear and stat and plus to the fullest potential of that class, then we should be viable no matter what class it is. We should not have to "Reroll" every other month just to stay viable, that is just wrong. I play a M/S and have been playing that for a long time. I fell into the reroll trap and spent a lot of money trying to make a "viable" toon only to discover that I hated playing that toon, I soon went back to my M/S that I had fun with.

I am very disheartened at this point because I have spent so much money on my toon and I go to SW and go up against other classes that just have so breath on me to kill me. I'm hoping that they soon make another attempt at rebalancing to make it more fun again we all can feel viable whether we are DPS or support class.

The gap between classes definitely need to be closed or there isnt any point in playing unless you do intend to keep rerolling and I wont do that.

Pyper
Palenque

well said pyper, and I totally agree.

what's the point of having all these awesome class combos, elite skills, statting flexibility, and gearing options if everybody is gonna play "cookie-cutter chars"(forgot who made that up) just to be viable.

Quoted from "Cike"

what's the point of having all these awesome class combos, elite skills, statting flexibility, and gearing options if everybody is gonna play "cookie-cutter chars"(forgot who made that up) just to be viable.

Cike and Pyper I totally agree with you guys to a point. I don't trust Runewaker to ever make the classes even. But I also got sick of my R/S (Ch4 FOTM) and wanted to do something besides burn the same rotation with energy thief. Along comes Warlock the class with multiple rotation options thanks to Psi. Now I had a dilemma, I am playing this class that is a blast however my damage is lacking. Now here comes the decision point. I can re roll to M/Wl or gear up my 3rd class or I can change the way we run stuff. I chose to go the later although it took time. Here is my suggestions for playing a non FOTM class

1. Improve yourself as much as possible. Wl/Mage in my case has 100 billion skills in a rotation including psi skill. I currently consume 360m tp to keep damage up

2. Buff your strengths, find every class combo that can help you. If they are existing players make sure they are on when u raid. If they don't exist make an alt or have a buddy log his alt in.

3. Run with people that complement each other. If you have a party buff/debuff that benefits select classes lean towards playing with those classes.

4. Help others gear that will help you. If your guild has a skilled player that wants to reroll, ask him to consider a class that will help your raids. This always gives me something to do before an update when I am done gearing and I am waiting for new content. This also goes for new players that have experience. We have had great success with new players from other games that know how to play MMO's and just wanted a change.

5. Only a few select classes are PVE, and PVP viable. Do not expect your class to be good at both. My WL/M sucks monkey balls in sw compared to Wl/Ch. I made this change for SW and have never looked back and the cost was not that bad. You prob are going to be making honor gear anyway.

EDIT: 1 more thing: Changes like I have listed don't happen overnight

I credit BBlak for the lightbulb going off in my head as too raiding in Rom. When Beth came out, Indigo had only cleared Tosh 3 times and CoB. We were so behind it was embarrassing. Not for lack of trying .. We ran our hodgepodge gang of random classes every week into one of those instances. Finally I saw a post here from Bleeding that clicked with me. We had some of the pieces but were not buffing, running the correct classes the help eachother. A couple people had to reroll. Others had to improve. No-one made a R/M lol. It took a month or so but like domino's falling we started clearing instance after instance. We chose to go more of a magic party route and it works. I honestly believe you can build a raid around any class except MAYBE scouts. Just the whole party must help each others dps.

Every class has it's own "specialty." Not all classes are created, or meant to be, equal.

But they should all be viable.

Quoted from "Soulcalibur"

Every class has it's own "specialty." Not all classes are created, or meant to be, equal.

the problem is my "specialty" is considered useless in really any group. same goes for a good many hybrid builds.

try getting into an endgame raid by saying that you can poison large groups of trash at once, or by having party buffs that over-write better, more expensive consumables/buffs, or listing off any number of commonly considered useless specialties.

until you start bringing hybrids and unusual combos into endgame, or use them in pvp, you can't say that since each class combo brings something unique to the table, they are fine.

unique =/= viable, but it should.

Edit made @ Xamd.

I understand where all of you are coming from. I don't like it either, but the truth is, adapt and evolve or get left behind.

then what is the "suggestion" part of this forum even for if we shouldn't voice our opinions on game improvement? shall we just shut up and deal with all the bugs too?

Little off topic but it all ties in to "Why RoM is a burn"

Please don't shoot the messenger..

Im going to make the argument that there are very few classes that are not viable.
Clearly there are top DPS classes. R/m wd/w w/wd champs m/w all do fairly amazingly.
Then there are classes that are still good dps, just not quite the op classes of the time. R/s r/wd all other mages.
Then you have a few utility based classes who maybe dont do amazing dps but are good for buffs and debuffs. Good enough that they are more benifical than uber dps classes. M/wl k/w s/r or s/w in some cases. R/wd and w/wd both provide good group buffs and do acceptable damage out put.
Then there are terribly broken classes like r/d and the other scout combos. R/d has a nice crit buff, but thats all it brings and its not enough to replace a full dps. The m/wl debuffs are enough to account for multiple dps additions, but r/d cant stand up like that. most warrior combos other than w/wd are slipping behind. Those are the classes taht need work.

Mages can survive. If all our current "op" classes got nerfed, people would just reroll mage and continue with life. ITs the scout and warriors and a few odd combos like r/p and r/d who are so far broken they serve no purpose.

I would disagree that warriors are broken. They are even more stupidly OP than Xamd's Indigo mage burn parties when more than one of them runs in a party and they stack bleeds. Core relied on that dynamic for years, and were able to burn everything as fast as the rogue-heavy parties on all the other servers.

Warrior's issue is that a solo warrior isn't going to see even a quarter of their potential as a warrior in a party with 5 or 6 other warriors all bleed stacking. Heck, even Paz used to switch to an axe and throw his m/w bleeds on bosses back in the day, and warriors haven't been nerfed, it's just that Greenthing and whatshisname, the other stupidly OP w/r, quit the game.

The thing is, no one should need an entire party built around their class to shine. And almost any class can shine when you do build a party around it.

We just don't have the population to support that. We need classes that can randomly get together without spending hours setting up pre-buffs and just go in there, execute reasonable strat, and have fun. That's how other games do it. It's less about the class composition and more about the people playing the toons.

I like the teamwork aspect of it. I like all the buffing and working towards something. What I don't like is that all classes don't have an opportunity to shine and the cost of making a new class. I would love to see an instance built around different classes. So boss 1 requires some rogue aspect and you will fail without one. Boss 2 requires mages because u cant get close to him. Boss 3 has a crazy strat and gobs of HP so the fight goes 7 minutes and non burn dps have a moment to shine. etc..

Now the problem most people will have at this point with a good change like that is they already have a set group or don't wish to reroll R/D because now you want one for the 7 minute boss fight. So the cost of rerolling would need reduced in some way.

Quoted from "Mrpushpop"

I like the teamwork aspect of it. I like all the buffing and working towards something. What I don't like is that all classes don't have an opportunity to shine and the cost of making a new class. I would love to see an instance built around different classes. So boss 1 requires some rogue aspect and you will fail without one. Boss 2 requires mages because u cant get close to him. Boss 3 has a crazy strat and gobs of HP so the fight goes 7 minutes and non burn dps have a moment to shine. etc..

Now the problem most people will have at this point with a good change like that is they already have a set group or don't wish to reroll R/D because now you want one for the 7 minute boss fight. So the cost of rerolling would need reduced in some way.

The problem is also taht i just dont want to have to be forced to rely on one class. Its already bad enough that if you dont have a tank on you cant do a run. If we HAD to have one rogue, one mage, a r/d a tank, a priest, a druid, a warlock...at most you'd end up wtih one of the oddball classes per guild, and that person would HAVE to be on for each run, and they would get burned out. Its not resonable to rely entierly on one class for dps.

It is reasonable for you to do better in an instance if you have a complementary class in an instance. Warriors do better with other warriors to stack bleeds. Rogues do the same. It would be ideal if you dident REQUIRE a second of your class to do well. Rogues do fine on their own. Warriors struggle solo. In this situation, the entier party does not rely on one person, but if you invite a pair, that pair would build off each other.

I see your concern Darwec, but isn't that the same problem we have now. If you like me you tend to run with the same people anyway. If my mages don't log on one night, I mean I can try to run it with unreliable people but we all tend gravitate toward a trusted group anyway.

But to your point I am the only Wl/M on Indigo, the class requires insane amounts of tp to do dps, so I don't see anyone matching me soon. So there have been nights I couldn't play. However our group can still burn without me just not as quickly. I think my idea is still feasible even on a low population server but it may just mean your not clearing stuff nightly.

You have to admit it would add a new dimension to the game. The closest thing I can think of like this is Rift where you need magic and physical dps to fight respective mobs.

w/r used to be epic DPS. have no idea what happened to it though. maybe nothing, and people just stopped playing it. dunno.

Quoted from "Cike"

w/r used to be epic DPS. have no idea what happened to it though. maybe nothing, and people just stopped playing it. dunno.

A) too difficult to maintain dps.
B) w/wd is insanely more dps and easier to play.

Quoted from "Mrpushpop"

I like the teamwork aspect of it. I like all the buffing and working towards something. What I don't like is that all classes don't have an opportunity to shine and the cost of making a new class. I would love to see an instance built around different classes. So boss 1 requires some rogue aspect and you will fail without one. Boss 2 requires mages because u cant get close to him. Boss 3 has a crazy strat and gobs of HP so the fight goes 7 minutes and non burn dps have a moment to shine. etc..

This is an interesting Idea and could lead to a lot more cash for RW, but the problem I see is something very similar was done in another game ( Dungeon and Dragons Online ) if anyone remembers that one. You had to have the right party composition to beat their dungeons and it lead to a very empty game very quickly. I know that game is still going but I have no idea how well it is fairing.

I would be all for all the class combos being Viable....and W/S I always thought was more of a pvp Warrior build.

If they would just set up bosses to do more percent damage then I think you would see a lot more people able to and willing to run the instances. Percents can scale to every players build, not sure that would be in the best interest of the game thou for money making, but I think it could go a long way to allowing or getting more people behind instance running since that is the only thing people want to say is viable.

@Cike about your mentality of building only the best in slot piece is that it is always changing and it leads down two paths from my experience.....

A. you will never become capable of running the latest content because your still trying to only build best in slot...very vicious cycle that truely benefits Gameforge/RW the most.

B. Drop so much real cash that you can just purchase all this gear built from other players and not too many people I know could afford to do that becuase us the players have made sure the economy is so outrageously priced ( which this favors Gameforge/RW ).

Making all classes viable thou would be an awesome route to go, so all those New Players that are flooding in would not hit that point where they are told their class combo is not viable and reroll.....would not be so horrid if us the players did not raise the cost of the game to a point where it is virtually impossible to afford without spending all your time/money on it.

I think the S/P really looks fun but doubt I would ever build one or play one unless they release Class Expansion Tickets again and I can add Priest to my list of classes.