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Tuulikki

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41

Friday, September 18th 2015, 12:59am

Quoted from "FarmerTom"

95 content came wayy too early imo... no offense if you keep forcefeeding content your gonna lose more and more players...
Never really understood that rationale. Just because new content comes out does mean players are forced to do anything with it. Some might like the additional questing, etc . It's not like they will release the new instance right away - at least not based on the past few patches. That probably wont happen for at least a month or two afterwards.

I think what might be driving players away is not the timing of the content but the content itself. It will invariably be just more of the same: Some bugged quests, an new instance that arrives a couple months after the level cap, gear that is only marginally better at best from what is in the game now. No new item set skills will come out. The existing instances will remain either bugged/broken and/or tuned to a point that requires a significant investment to have any chance of successfully completing. The game will continue to have inis based on burn or perish instead of strategies...this list goes on and on. Again, just more of the same and THAT I believe is really what is causing the population issues we have now.

Back to the point, if new content comes out before a player wants to tackle it then just leave it alone until you are. :)
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42

Friday, September 18th 2015, 1:00am

Quoted from "Borella"

Endgamers don't want it that fast

if this is true, then GF/RW REALLY needs to rethink, as, iirc, the pushing force behind new content had always been endgamers. if /they/ aren't ready, then no reason at all to release it.
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

Tuulikki

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43

Friday, September 18th 2015, 1:08am

Quoted from "Cike"

Quoted from "Borella"

Endgamers don't want it that fast

if this is true, then GF/RW REALLY needs to rethink, as, iirc, the pushing force behind new content had always been endgamers. if /they/ aren't ready, then no reason at all to release it.
Could not agree less. The game should cater to all of it's population, not just some. This mentality of endgamer entitlement has always been a bit high and in some cases communicated rather heavy handed on the forums but this is just a bit much.
Titaia (100/100/55 M/P/K), Safia (100/100/75/60 K/P/W/S) - Badkitty
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Friday, September 18th 2015, 1:13am

What exactly does new content do for you if you're not an endgamer besides give you a day or two of levelling to do the same thing you're already doing?

Most midgamers right now are so far away from being able to run endgame content that three levels and new shell stats is not going to get them any farther than they already are. Midgamers will NEVER catch up when the endgame population can't even keep up with current pace of content.

I'm not against new content, per se, I'm against new content that further increases the level cap/requires new creation of gear/new stats. If they want to put in content that has NOTHING to do with instances, sure, go ahead. But they don't. New content = new gear/instances.

Not even getting into the [redacted, language] ridiculousness of releasing a new level cap when the last level caps content isn't even working yet.
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Kalvan" (Sep 18th 2015, 8:10pm)

Cike

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 2:21am

Quoted from "Tuulikki"

Quoted from "Cike"

Quoted from "Borella"

Endgamers don't want it that fast

if this is true, then GF/RW REALLY needs to rethink, as, iirc, the pushing force behind new content had always been endgamers. if /they/ aren't ready, then no reason at all to release it.
Could not agree less. The game should cater to all of it's population, not just some. This mentality of endgamer entitlement has always been a bit high and in some cases communicated rather heavy handed on the forums but this is just a bit much.
endgame and it's rediculous cost funds the game. simple as that. used to be of the opinion that the game was /not/ funded by the endgamers, but look around, endgame and dia sellers selling to endgame are the only people buying dias anymore.

borella puts it quite nicely with this post:

Quoted from "Borella"

What exactly does new content do for you if you're not an endgamer besides give you a day or two of levelling to do the same thing you're already doing?

Most midgamers right now are so far away from being able to run endgame content that three levels and new shell stats is not going to get them any farther than they already are. Midgamers will NEVER catch up when the endgame population can't even keep up with current pace of content.

I'm not against new content, per se, I'm against new content that further increases the level cap/requires new creation of gear/new stats. If they want to put in content that has NOTHING to do with instances, sure, go ahead. But they don't. New content = new gear/instances.

Not even getting into the [redacted, language] ridiculousness of releasing a new level cap when the last level caps content isn't even working yet.
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Kalvan" (Sep 18th 2015, 8:11pm)

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 3:03am

New content should help players. The way things are going it is hurting players. While you are able to level your character you are unable to level the skills without spending a fortune on daily reset tickets. What I see everywhere is players at level 92 in all their classes trying to get by with skills at much lower levels. While fighting mobs whose skills have leveled with their levels . The situation with the gear is even worse.
It is taking almost 3 million tp to level a skill from one level to the next after level 90 but you only earn about 9 million tp when you level your character so you are limited to improving only 3 of your many skills if you have kept up. Which many people have not. This is made far worse by the special events where you get massive amounts of xp bonus from everything but only get minor tp bonuses from killing mobs . There should be tp bonus only events and they must include quests and dailies. If you want to keep players in the game allow them to play with skill levels appropriate to their character levels not create a situation where this is impossible without spending huge amounts of money.

Tuulikki

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47

Friday, September 18th 2015, 4:45am

Quoted from "Cike"

Quoted from "Tuulikki"

Quoted from "Cike"

Quoted from "Borella"

Endgamers don't want it that fast

if this is true, then GF/RW REALLY needs to rethink, as, iirc, the pushing force behind new content had always been endgamers. if /they/ aren't ready, then no reason at all to release it.
Could not agree less. The game should cater to all of it's population, not just some. This mentality of endgamer entitlement has always been a bit high and in some cases communicated rather heavy handed on the forums but this is just a bit much.
endgame and it's rediculous cost funds the game. simple as that. used to be of the opinion that the game was /not/ funded by the endgamers, but look around, endgame and dia sellers selling to endgame are the only people buying dias anymore.

borella puts it quite nicely with this post:

Quoted from "Borella"

What exactly does new content do for you if you're not an endgamer besides give you a day or two of levelling to do the same thing you're already doing?

Most midgamers right now are so far away from being able to run endgame content that three levels and new shell stats is not going to get them any farther than they already are. Midgamers will NEVER catch up when the endgame population can't even keep up with current pace of content.

I'm not against new content, per se, I'm against new content that further increases the level cap/requires new creation of gear/new stats. If they want to put in content that has NOTHING to do with instances, sure, go ahead. But they don't. New content = new gear/instances.

Not even getting into the [redacted, language] ridiculousness of releasing a new level cap when the last level caps content isn't even working yet.
lol - I don't deny that GF/RW has been targeting endgamers in the least. This game has always targeted microtransaction whales as their marketing strategy - they used to have it on their website (they may still, can't be bothered to go look). I didn't say "are", I said "should" cater to the entire population not just a segment. They have been doing it that way for awhile now and look where we're at now. By all means they should keep doing what they've been doing, it's so obviously not hurting the population at all - at any level. Oh wait...

My point was/still is that nobody is forced to do new content when it comes out. If there are players who don't want to participate they simply have to chose not to do it - it's not gonna go away. On the other hand, some players might welcome the distraction of new quests, etc.. Delaying a release just because one particular segment doesn't value it just doesn't make sense when they can simply chose not to take advantage of it.

@Borella: What does new content do for any player? The exact same thing it does for endgamers with the exception of running hard-mode versions of the latest instances. As to mid-game guilds, absolutely let's not give them any hope to get any closer to endgame by releasing new content. Who do they think they are trying to get better gear and stats? The nerve of those people... :P
@Cike: Saying that endgame players fund the game is a ridiculous blanket statement. There are plenty of non-endgame players who spend quite a bit on this game. Unless you have numbers to back up your statement it is only your opinion not a fact.
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This post has been edited 1 times, last edit by "Kalvan" (Sep 18th 2015, 8:13pm)

zidlef

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48

Friday, September 18th 2015, 5:16am

Well i agree with Tuulikki, the game is made for all level and classes to enjoy the game, not just endgamers. Ya i am happy new zone is coming out and i would have wished them to bring out zones up to level 100 in one shot and open instances whenever they think we should get them. Higher level, new gear, new stats etc are good for midgamers, ya they won't run the latest instances but they will be able to enjoy the previous content they wouldn't dare dream to complete. You don't have to be all endgame geared +20 on everything to do it. I don't mind clearing hardmode if i am 20 level above them, at least i can enjoy myself, help people learn strat, get free gear for their class and stats.



If you are looking at new zone/gear/stats and cannot live without it to play and enjoy yourself, that is pretty sad. Instead of getting the latest, the shinniest, the better gear, why don't you tier your gear at T9 or T10 and keep it for 10 or 15 levels?? it's not like the new gear will make that much of a difference to get it. Compare level 80/90/95 gear, tier it higher and see how little the difference is. Considering that a lot of endgamers clear instances with a bunch of buffers and debuffers and not actual players there to help and have fun too. :beer:

Cike your quote :

endgame and it's rediculous cost funds the game. simple as that. used to be of the opinion that the game was /not/ funded by the endgamers, but look around, endgame and dia sellers selling to endgame are the only people buying dias anymore.



What are you talking about?? lmao might be the case on your server but certainly not on Reni, everyone uses diamonds, not just endgamers. :pillepalle:


There are plenty of diamonds seller on Reni, ruby sellers and they are quite reasonable on their prices too. But if new content comes out too quickly, people can't sell their old gear and are stuck with it no gold=can't buy diamonds with. I've said it many times, why buy gear for 100M a piece if you can't actually use it to run instances, use p-shell, crafted gear, eoj gear etc and do what you can with what you can get at reasonable prices. This is a game to be enjoyed by all and not the select few.

Gotta have fun and if you can't, the game is like having a second job and that is no fun :huh:




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ruisen2000

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 6:37am

Quoted from "Borella"

What exactly does new content do for you if you're not an endgamer besides give you a day or two of levelling to do the same thing you're already doing?

Most midgamers right now are so far away from being able to run endgame content that three levels and new shell stats is not going to get them any farther than they already are. Midgamers will NEVER catch up when the endgame population can't even keep up with current pace of content.

That's because RW either tailors new content for endgamers, or just aren't very good at creating interesting content that's enjoyable for everyone. There are games out there have no problem creating new content for both endgame players and non-endgame players. They need to figure out how to do that too...

wtb fun public events and other interesting for-everyone stuffs.
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lesmceld

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 6:57am

I suspect everyone would agree that the content should be mostly bug free when introducing new zones, and the instance up and running. :) I'm also of the opinion that there should be no hurry on the introduction of zones.

That being said, Cike, I think that is the worst thought out statement you've ever made. :) If we take the statement that the only people who buy diamonds from non-endgamers are endgamers as a fact, which I do not, if those non-endgamers are not happy with the game for their reasons, then it's just as hurtful to the game as endgamers being unhappy with the game.

But it's not a fact even. :) There are people who buy tons of diamonds real life and never sell them to endgamers. There are people who don't play endgame who buy tons of diamonds in game.

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 8:10am

WTS a realization of what endgame is is actually like.

We have souls too. :) And I've been running grotto every day for the last month why? Because I enjoy the instance, not like I need anything from there atm. Even the mems are give aways.

So rather whining for endgames to suck it up and have fun with the game, we try to :) Yes I'm called an elitest often >.> But I'm still wearing level 77 gear on my mage... The gear isn't the problem, its the fact that with the loss of people becoming more evident, If any of the latest content can be cleared, others have to step up, however with the release of new level caps/instances becoming increasingly difficult, everyone is currently stuck, until more people can step up, to like you said, have a fun party that can work together to get stuff done! ^.^ So this rapid pace of new content new content new content, it helps if the previous content is actually working first... so that the players trying to make that extra effort into gearing have steps to climb, and not holes to gap.

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Tuulikki

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 9:52am

lol - you are contradicting yourself. In one sentence you say players need to step up to complete content yet go on to say they shouldn't release new content so fast even though that would help players to step up by giving them access not only to a higher level but also higher level stats and possibly even gear. So what if new stuff comes out and you're not done yet with the old stuff - not like people can't go back and still run the older content. Heck, there's people that still group up to run ToSH and that's 22 levels behind now.
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Zerienga

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 1:49pm

Honestly, it's just a vicious cycle. When they push new level caps on us, stats we currently had become obsolete, which, if you are midgame and trying to reach endgame, you then go for the newer stats in place of the old ones so that you'll be stronger. It's simple human nature. Something becomes new and slightly better, the old one becomes outdated and worthless in comparison. By them pushing out new level caps, they are appealing to that irrational behavior of humans in order to keep us spending money on the game. However, if level caps were spread out a little more, it gives people more time to finish the soon to be obsolete stats, enabling them to have the benefit of fully statted gear.

When reading Zen's post about how people need to step up, I read it as meaning that people need to be willing to go with a few of the "obsolete" stats if it finishes a piece of gear. While, no, they wouldn't have the best stats, they would have good gear to use. They would then need to show an active interest in joining endgame runs and learning instances (which any midgamer heading for endgame ought to be doing anyways). To go from being midgame to endgame, you need to show that you actually want to be there. Get geared up (even if you use pom, shell, or crafted gear), be proactive about becoming endgame and learn to play your class optimally. Join ant hm runs you can, even if you might wipe. The more experience you have in hm, the easier it will seem.

I'm not saying that I'm for or against the new level cap, but in the same way it helps midgame players step up, it also hinders them.
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This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Zerienga" (Sep 18th 2015, 1:56pm)

zidlef

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 4:13pm

Quoted from "Zerienga"

Honestly, it's just a vicious cycle. When they push new level caps on us, stats we currently had become obsolete, which, if you are midgame and trying to reach endgame, you then go for the newer stats in place of the old ones so that you'll be stronger. It's simple human nature. Something becomes new and slightly better, the old one becomes outdated and worthless in comparison. By them pushing out new level caps, they are appealing to that irrational behavior of humans in order to keep us spending money on the game. However, if level caps were spread out a little more, it gives people more time to finish the soon to be obsolete stats, enabling them to have the benefit of fully statted gear.
So people that are gearing up right now and trying to get better in game STOP NOW!!!! Zeri says your gear and stats are obsolete STOP !!!! Like Zen said he still running with 77 pieces, i still run with my Tatah set for my knight and i know a bunch of people running with their 80 set. Zeri you say simple human nature?? yes humans are stupid. It is called marketing and making money for a business, don't you think Apple, Samsung, Nike, Reebok, Adidas uses the same tactics??. We all know that but you do not needed the newest and shiniest things to hardmode instances, unless you want to burn them in 20 seconds.


Also i have seen a lot of people try to finish their gear, stat up to get better on Reni etc, i have also noticed that people are fed up with the plussing jewel failure rate. Some people do not have the real life money to buy diamonds to step it up, some also just play for the fun of the game and get their minds off of real life. Some people stay away from running hardmode instances in group because of their age, we had a gentleman that left the game a while back because it was too stressful for him to be in groups. We have people like Asphodelix and Ghostlord which most of the time we have to put a leash on and spank them to remain focus :rolleyes: they always try to get to the love nest couch and OMG!!!!! :whistling:


As i said many times, you do not need the latest, shiniest most powerful gear/stats to do hardmode, get a good group to help out and you'll be good to go, ya you won't be on top of the scrutinizer for damage/dps/defense or heals, but you will learn the strat, learn what you need to improve, learn a few tricks for you class and overall that will also make you better.


I have to thank the good people of Knighshift and a few members of VVV for being nice enough to help the noobs of Reni to get higher instances runs going :beer: LOVE running with you guys but for the love of god!!! get Rustyx to put on some clothes next time!!! tyvm

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 4:34pm

I personally would love if they return to 6/12 people cycle with instances; If they maintain to keep it as 12 man norm/ hard, then make norm mode drop same stats as hard mode with exception of orange stats. Is that too much to ask? In fact GF probably can do that even since they should have control on the drop probability table. That single step will make more people engage and will give reason to run stuff/gear etc.

Am I asking for too much? >< SC/GCH was win win; would love same structure back but if not see above, fix stats so that its same as hard mode.

P.S. Yeah also instances should like work :) and dont have easy boss wiping parties lol
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Friday, September 18th 2015, 4:36pm

Quoted from "lesmceld"

Cike, I think that is the worst thought out statement you've ever made.

most likely. yesterday i was not in the normal mind....maybe i'll go read what i wrote and see how bad the damage is xD

(edit: it's bad. go ahead and just ignore like my last 3-4 posts in this thread. i don't know what i was thinking T.T)
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

This post has been edited 2 times, last edit by "Cike" (Sep 18th 2015, 5:19pm)

MODRUNE01

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 4:49pm

I'll summarize the issues mentioned in this thread as they keep coming up again and again throughout my years of RoM experience:
- "Hey RoM management, stop releasing new stuff that is broken (e.g. instances/quests/etc). Or, if they are unexpectedly broken, fix that first!" All types of players agree on this..
- Which type of players ('endgame'/casual) really fund/drive this game? "Its not you, its me" attitudes are typically argued without realizing it is all types of players..
- "Why release new content so early? We can't even complete current endgame content." Casuals vs. endgamers typically argue 'their' reasons as to why to do it and why not to do it..
- "Casuals should step up and becomes endgamers." Endgamers always want perfection (you must have at least X/Y combo with Z minimum stats), yet casuals like to play their combo character for fun regardless of its DPS/tanking/healing/buffing/debuffing abilities. As long as casuals take down the boss using strats, that is all that matters from their perspective. Good luck trying to get a group going with these two different mind sets..
- "Getting TP in this game is hard." Players typically argue whether updating skills is even worth the trouble and how it can be done.
- "Gear plussing policy on this game sucks." All types of players tend to agree on this..
- "Change instance design." Casuals vs. endgamers typically argue 'their' reasons as to how it should be done..


Did I miss any from this thread? Regardless, feel free to continue going over this again.
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Zerienga

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Friday, September 18th 2015, 4:56pm

Zid, I never said that people should stop. I said that people shouldn't just get rid of old stats because new ones are better. Also, why do you think businesses always create "new and improved" goods? They rely on the irrational natureZid, I never said that people should stop. I said that people shouldn't just get rid of old stats because new ones are better. Also, why do you think businesses always create "new and improved" goods? They rely on the irrational make that humans have to always want what's the newest. When I said that the "soon to be obsolete stats" would be able to be used if the level caps were more spread out, I wasn't saying it that they were obsolete now. The new level caps make these stats and gear seem obsolete due to the new gear and stats being slightly better. I'm saying that more spread out level caps would allow players to complete more gear, making them not see their gear and stats they're currently working on/with as being obsolete. Hell, my p/k is still wearing mostly kbn hm gear.

Did I really need to spell everything out for you zid? that humans have to always want what's the newest. When I said that the "soon to be obsolete stats" would be able to be used if the level caps were more spread out, I wasn't saying it that they were obsolete now. The new level caps make these stats and gear seem obsolete due to the new gear and stats being slightly better. I'm saying that more spread out level caps would allow players to complete more gear, making them not see their gear and stats they're currently working on/with as being obsolete. Hell, my p/k is still wearing mostly kbn hm gear.

Did I really need to spell everything out for you zid? Guess I had to write the "fine print" for you...
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Friday, September 18th 2015, 5:10pm

WTB Plussing and Stat Transfer transmutation, Stat upgrade stones, and +1 maximum durability hammers.


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Friday, September 18th 2015, 5:17pm

Quoted from "Ghostlord"

WTB Plussing and Stat Transfer transmutation, Stat upgrade stones

i was literally just having a conversation with somebody about an idea very similar to this.

it would allow a more natural gear progression (which this game really discourages), and multiple regearings without hurting GF's pockets too much.
my r/p can outdps r/m. your name is stupid.

mages should stack dex. word.

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