Runes of Magic US / AU

I'm sure there's been one or more threads about class balancing but I hope I'm allowed to create my own thread to express my thoughts and perhaps revitalize the issue from a different perspective. If nobody replies then please feel free to let it die or be moved to another thread.

Defense in pvp/siege seems really useless except against lesser geared toons. But offense works against both good and lesser geared toons.

Playing both good and lesser geared toons, I've found the game ends up being about who hits who first between two good geared toons and the lesser geared simply have no chance at all in most cases unless it's a favorable class matchup as I'll explain in a second.

If I can get many of you reading this to simply reply that you agree, then maybe it'll be passed on to the devs or noticed by the devs. Nothing to lose after all.

Another problem is that the class skills are not equal or balanced properly. When all that matters is who hits who first, range becomes extremely important, not to mention the ability to shoot through walls... ugh.

Mage/druids outrange priest/scouts, and priest/scouts outrange rogues/scouts, and rogue/scouts can't be seen except by scouts and cheaters. Scout/knights have range and defense which are great against lesser geared players and rogues but get blown away by anything else that's equally geared.

So the game ends up being determined by the class match up and the gear level instead of things like player skill, tactics, communication, and teamwork.

As for stuns, they are pretty useless against well geared players. Stuns are very unreliable which makes teamwork and tactics useless. Especially against priests and mages.

I think the devs have really overlooked several things they could do to balance things out.

One of my major pet peaves is a mages lighting skill. Mages can instantly cast lighting every what 16 seconds? But rogues can only escape once or twice (using gloves) every 2 minutes. Rogues shouldn't mind being stunned but they should always have the ability to counteract it. And a rogues shadow prison should work as much as a mages lightning and all classes should have a skill to escape it just like rogues.

And if you're going to allow one to be attacked while stunned and not the other then the attack should probably be deminished by half or more. In the end I think it's the use of magic accuracy/resistance as the deciding factor if a stun works that is the major problem since some classes can't realistically stack as much wisdom as others.

I think it's possible to have slight differences in the skills but it has to be fair and logical.

As for rogues invisibility, that really needs to be put in check. It's fine to give them that ability but they shouldn't be able to just gank anyone they want except scouts. I think the solution is to again reduce their damage for a number of seconds after they come out of hide. But also give people a skill to counteract it. The ability to be invisible shouldn't be a blank check to kill anyone they want. It should give them the element of surprise but not much else. However, if all other classes are given an immunity, then it becomes balanced if changes are made that give them time to use it.

So really all this only works if the game is slowed down enough to give people at least a few seconds to react to each action with a counter action. If you mess up sure you die or become the one most likely to die first. That makes sense. But being ganked out of the blue or one hit from someone out of range is just not fun. It's surely not a challenge for anyone and it tests nobody's playing skill.

So I think the devs really need to make several changes to skills so they are balanced by range and ability and cooldown. And they also need to adjust the defense so people take a lot less damage which allows time to react, use tatics and teamwork.

Please understand this is not about one class and one skill. These are just example. I play many classes and they are all aggravating to play in many situations. Obviously, if I had super good gear on all of them it would be less of a factor because I'd be favored in many more situtations.

Most sincerely, I just ask for some time to react, to do some damage even if it's small, or to have the ability to stun and contribute to the team in a small way. Simply being cannon fodder that slows down oppenents by adding a 1 second gcd seems absurd.

Now this request suits my agenda and probably won't sit well with the many well geared players who most likely spend money and support the game. But you may find many more players end up spending then those who quit because they can no longer stroke their big egos with easy kills.

If everyone who agrees could reply that they agree then maybe we can get the devs to notice and make the changes we think are needed. Not much to lose but a few seconds of time each to post.

Quoted from "bran1986;525388"

i agree 100% as a knight we are basically useless IMO

I agree with that. Knights should be like mini bosses. Taking groups even a few minutes to take down a well geared knight, giving time for the dead to regroup. That should be their roll but they are denied it. Even a lesser geared knights should be able to delay a 4 or 5 man group 30 seconds or so. That's their role. Hard to kill but don't do much unless they are ignored and left to pillage.

Quoted from "zephyrusq;525463"

Amazingly there is a lot of strategy in SW, if done correctly of course. Timing immunities to cap towers, chaining scrolls and tornadoes to take down gates, there are plenty of ways to use your skills to gain the advantage in battles.

Yes the tools for strategy are in place but they're having little effect because of the class imballances and one shots which you yourself admit exists.

Obviously if damage is reduced then heals have to be reduced which is easy to do for an instance. Just give everyone a 70% damage debuff and 70% heal debuff and maybe a 50% pot debuff. Or maybe, allow the option at registration time? Those who want a 1 hit battle can have it and those that don't can play a chess game of tatics and teamwork.

And no it should never be about who gets the first hit in my opinion. It should be a battle of action and counter action. OR at the least, make things equal and give people the same range. But in that case would it not just be luck and lag that is the deciding factor a majority of the time? So often it happens, you have two toons running towards each other and the guy with more range wins. Where's the skill there?

And again no that's not what a rogue is about in my opinion. The surprise factor and first one or two hits is what they should get in my opinion, but that shouldn't mean death! And if they pop out right before the attack then they're at least seen for however long the debuff lasts right?

In the end, it's not about people not knowing mechanics, it's about not having the time to do anything and spending 95% of their time at the top of the castle and running back to the battle.

Quoted from "TheDarkSage;525548"

Back when the level cap was 50, pvp was pretty balanced, and imo it was a lot more fun. The best pvp-er I remember was a K/W named Kolat with a kal turok axe, and even though he was 50 and pimped out, and I was like 45 and not so much, it still took him atleast 3 or 4 hits to kill me. Even though I was weaker, I could still turn the tide of a battle because I could throw silences and stuns around, and not die in half a second like it is these days. We've all gotten used to the new way of pvping, but it really isnt as fun..

Exactly. In my opinion, it should always take at least that many hits. Even with 4 hits there's very little time to react. I think fights should be at least 15 to 20 hits between equally geared players. That's the whole point to having a health bar isn't it? Maybe you stun and run and heal up a bit. Maybe he chases you down which takes him away from his post.

It's all about fun factor. Right now it's fun for ubers one shotting everyone. For the rest it's only fun when matched against equally geared guilds. But even then it's frustrating when a mage one hits a tank. And that's just one example I hear about alot.

I'm sure the ubers will say tanks could stack a bunch of wisdom and magic defense but we have to be realistic and realize that toons need to stat for pve as well in order to progress. AND even if they did stack magic defense, they would still be one or two hit because it just doesn't have much of an effect. The game is designed for people to do high damage. Which is great and fun for pve but it totally messes up pvp in my opinion.

Quoted from "HadMatter;525577"

Honestly I don't see how anything has changed since ch3. Now people are qq'n about rogues the way they did about scouts. As a scout in ch3 I hated rogues...they still could one shot me when they were equally geared and I could pretty much one shot them. Even with detection I couldn't always spot them in time, so hide gave them an advantage in siege. Rogue will probably get a nerf in the next chapter so calm down. Given RoM's track record they won't just nerf the class they'll drop it 5 steps below the others (looks at scouts).


signed -a disgruntled scout

Again it's not just about one class. I play many classes and combos. It's about balancing them all so no matter what two classes face each other, they each have equal abilities. Obviously knights and priests are different in that they should survive longer and do less damage. But the rest should be equal or have equal counters.

But even with class balancing we still need to give people TIME to counter attack. It may even require a 90% heal debuff and 70% attack debuff. That's easy enough to vary and test.

I believe from my coding experience that the devs could make it an option at registration time. If they can code all this other stuff I've seen them do, they can surely code this into the siege registration menu in hours or days at most. Obviously, I don't know their code and I could be wrong, but my experience says it shouldn't be that hard to do.

But we have to ask for it at the least. If not beg and plead for it. And yes many requests I'm sure go unheard but we get nowhere if we don't ask for it. So again, I'm hoping many people will post they agree and make this thread one loud voice.

And thanks to those who have posted in agreement already.

Quoted from "gstnet;525596"

I think you missed the point of the siege. It is group effort and there is something to do for every class combo and level. It is not something that any one class should be able to do on their own (other than r/m, r/m is so awesome that is should be able to solo the siege). Making all classes about the same would make it boring and dull. In that case you might as well get rid of classes and gear all together and make everyone just the same.

It should be a group effort but at the moment it's not. Right now most lesser geared players spend their time rezing and running back to the battle. They're not given the time to do anyting. They are one hit.

Obviously, we want slightly different classes but we need to balance things. Just one example is the mage's lighting compared to the rogues shadow prison. Because they both use magic accuracy/resistance one is effective and one is not. That's just one example of many.

You could say it's mages roll to crowd control and not a rogue's job. But when these classes end up face to face, it creates a huge inbalance. If the rogue is in hide he wins, if he's not he loses. Should that really be the deciding factor? My opinion is no.

Classes should have minor differences of course but I personally don't think it should decide the outcome.

Mages don't miss against a rogue because they have high magic accuracy. That's my point. But they will miss against an uber. That's also my point. And they are hard to shadow prison unless you have good gear with potentials to give you wisdom.

I do realize it's just a root but a rogue/scout has 2 ranged bow skills and often don't have a good dps bow. But my real point, from my original post, was that if a mage can stun every 16 seconds, a rogue should be able to escape every 16 seconds. That's fair.

I have a 70/68 rogue/scout/knight and a 70/60 priest/mage/knight. Each have been geared very well and owned people so hard it's funny. It's hilarious how I can one hit people who just run back for more one hitting. Sure it's fun for me until I run into someone who's uber geared and does it to me.

My ability to react quickly and choose the right skills to use have become irrelevant. It's just about gear and classes now. I run into a mage/druid with more range but equal or better gear or even slightly less gear, I'm dead. A rogue in hide, I'm dead. If the rogue is out of hide and equal or lesser geared, he's toast, he's one hit. There's just no skill involved. There's no battle.

You're talking about lower level and lower geared players. They don't usually have the ability to one hit like higher geared players and higher level players do. Wait until you face someone with 60 X runes in their gear. Then you'll understand.

Quoted from "zetpro;525627"

tl;dr but i saw u mention that tanks are useless in sw, i have to disagree our guild k/s ( we have 3 ) usually score quite alot of kills, i as m/r do like 150-300 kills on a fair sw where we are up against simular amount of players and their gear is simular to ours

while our knights usually do like 20-60 kills which imo is not too shaby, they are my meatshield and as soon as they die so do i

They can be useful in some situations. But they are being one hit by decent geared and uber mages and priest/scouts which at high levels makes them much less useful and almost pointless.

Our tank has like 150k HP and a 21k shield and is one hit.

I am starting to think from the reponses that this issue is more of a high points guild problem but it still probably has an effect when a lower guild faces another with a few ubers in it who are laughing and killing everyone with one hits.

Why does a mage have to close in on you? Mages are ranged damage dealers. Your logic is flawed it seems.

As for r/s and their vamp/shot skills, my point is that it's not their main skills. So they have a disadvantage.

When I say lesser geared, I may infact still mean end gamers, just not ubers with 60 X runes and tier 11 tosh weapons.

Obviously I'm not talking about a lvl 55 attacking a level 70 with 60 X runes. I'm generally talking about a fully geared lvl 70 with slightly less stats, +12 gear, maybe 40 lvl 7 runes, a tier 9 grafu weapon and lvl 40 pet VERSUS a lvl 70 with perfecting statting, level 60 pet, 60 X runes, all +16 tier 7 to 8 gear and tier 11 tosh weapon. Someone who MAY have spent $100 on diamonds versus $600 or more on diamonds.

Both are decent players and both can one hit. But it's the classes and gear that often decide the action rather then a player's skill. The lesser geared should be able to do some damage that's not instantly healed. But instead the lesser geared person is OFTEN one hit and spends their time runnning back to the battle.

I can understand gear affecting the eventual outcome in many cases. I'm just asking for a battle and a balance between the skills.

The way the devs seem to look at it now is that a mage/druid gets more range but has a cool down versus a p/s with less range and no cool down. BUT they don't seem consider at all the near FACT that it's a first hit, one hit game, at higher levels.

And I'm all about making suggestions then just bashing the devs. So another option/suggestion would be to raise everyone's HP dramatically during siege, maybe 5x to 10x their current amount. That might be an easier solution to implement. A knight with 1.5mil to 2mil HP makes him like a miniboss. That would be cool imo. He can sit there doing minor damage while the battle happens and is finally dealt with in the end or even at the start depending on tatics a guild chooses.

Maybe one uber rogue can then pop his cools to fight this tank while the others battle. In vent/teamspeak we can call out our target and implement offensives, etc.

Sounds like so much more fun to me anyways.