Runes of Magic US / AU

Quoted from "Amberwave;563635"

AoE attacks are just that, Area of Effect which is 3 dimensions not 2. They have volume. They are not bypassing a sight mechanic because none is required. The damage is done in the space of that volume, not the specific point targeted.

You're missing the point.

The area targeted by the caster is on the OPPOSITE side of a SOLID object. An object that cannot be passed through, an object that cannot be attacked through, and an object that the caster cannot even see with their camera view pointed straight at it.

This is how the line of sight system should be working as designed by the developers. I can say this because that is how it is working for each and every other skill in the game. Just because casting circles arnt working the same way as all other skills yet does not mean they're working as intended, and are intended to attack through landscape flaws.

If it cant be attacked through, it cant be seen through, and it cant be walked through, it cant be healed through... it shouldnt receive damage through. On that note it shouldnt be able to be targeted through either, but thats just wishful thinking.

Besides, if thunderstorm were intended to do 3 dimensional "spherical" damage, then it wouldnt be a casting circle, it would be a casting sphere. :p Not only that, but the damage caused on the ground level would be very localized to the exact center of that casting circle, thus unable to hit FOTS and other small targets on the edges of the casting circle... Unless you want to claim thunderstorm is intended to do "cylindrical" damage that is

... now, where did I leave my casting cylinder?

You can test these spells for yourself and you will see that these spells are in fact either spheres or cylinders.

There are many AoE attacks that are not targeted at all, knights WWS and most of the warriors AoE attacks are not targeted, they are centered on them, and they have always ignored "solid" objects, as have the all the other AoE attacks.

It is very difficult to argue real world physics ifantasytisy game, and even more so, the intent of the developers.

Quoted from "Amberwave;563651"

It is very difficult to argue real world physics ifantasytisy game, and even more so, the intent of the developers.

One thing that is plain and clear as day about the intent of the developers are that they do not want us attacking without a line of sight... else the dynamic would have never been introduced to begin with.

Quoted from "flyingltj;563689"

One thing that is plain and clear as day about the intent of the developers are that they do not want us attacking without a line of sight... else the dynamic would have never been introduced to begin with.

Well that's true for things that specifically require us to target a player, npc, or target. I cant say that same intent is there for aoes where a target is not needed to use the attack. Whatever happens to be in the area of effect at the time will be effected regardless, this also includes group healing your party when an obstacle is in the way (which no seems to complain about for some reason)

I don't understand the complaining about casting thunderstorm on top of walls and such. It isn't avoiding line of sight. It is not a targeted spell. They can reach with the skill to cast it on the edge of the top of the wall. This means from that point the aoe around that point will be hit. Makes sense to me.

Quoted from "Winston;563745"

I don't understand the complaining about casting thunderstorm on top of walls and such. It isn't avoiding line of sight. It is not a targeted spell. They can reach with the skill to cast it on the edge of the top of the wall. This means from that point the aoe around that point will be hit. Makes sense to me.

Yes, I agree! In this situation I believe thunderstorm is working as intended & cannot see reason why any mage would not use this skill in this way. It is just the same as targeting past a corner to hit fots & eyes that are out of sight around that corner, working as intended.

so then we should use the same complaint for scrolls from throne too. they function the same way. wich imho, who cares. accept is as it is.

From my perspective Thunderstorm is fine with what it can do pertaining to the castle walls.

My reasoning is. Thunderstorm is a magical spell that creates a thunderstorm of which we all know comes from the sky downwards...not outwards from the caster such as purg fire does. It should be able to avoid LoS rules because it chooses an area and hits from above. The same applies to the meteor scrolls, which causes an effect meant to hit from above.
Walls do not stop thunderstorms in real life...the roof does, so in fact it is more realistic to leave it as is.

Quoted from "turboreaper666;563934"

From my perspective Thunderstorm is fine with what it can do pertaining to the castle walls.

My reasoning is. Thunderstorm is a magical spell that creates a thunderstorm of which we all know comes from the sky downwards...not outwards from the caster such as purg fire does. It should be able to avoid LoS rules because it chooses an area and hits from above. The same applies to the meteor scrolls, which causes an effect meant to hit from above.
Walls do not stop thunderstorms in real life...the roof does, so in fact it is more realistic to leave it as is.

By that logic Lightning, Iceblade, Etc. should ignore LOS because they come from above.

So i want to be able to use my arrows to shoot catapults and people threw the gate ;-) Arrows can be shot in the air, as in medieval time to shoot over the walls!! but ya too OP probably, maybe rogues should be able to shadowstep in the castles again and take down processors loll, oh true they fixed that.

Quoted from "turboreaper666;563934"

From my perspective Thunderstorm is fine with what it can do pertaining to the castle walls.

My reasoning is. Thunderstorm is a magical spell that creates a thunderstorm of which we all know comes from the sky downwards...not outwards from the caster such as purg fire does. It should be able to avoid LoS rules because it chooses an area and hits from above. The same applies to the meteor scrolls, which causes an effect meant to hit from above.
Walls do not stop thunderstorms in real life...the roof does, so in fact it is more realistic to leave it as is.

If thunderstorm was a "top down" damage dealing skill, as you have suggested, then it would not be able to damage anything at the base of castle gates or inside of the main castle structure, as they have roofs above them.

Since you state you understand roofs protect against thunderstorms and meteors and such... you defeated your own argument... and there isnt diddly squat realistic about it

Ill just sit patiently while more folks try to make more far-out attempts to justify subverting line of sight dynamics in ROM.

Quoted from "flyingltj;563999"

If thunderstorm was a "top down" damage dealing skill, as you have suggested, then it would not be able to damage anything at the base of castle gates or inside of the main castle structure, as they have roofs above them.

Since you state you understand roofs protect against thunderstorms and meteors and such... you defeated your own argument... and there isnt diddly squat realistic about it

Ill just sit patiently while more folks try to make more far-out attempts to justify subverting line of sight dynamics in ROM.

Your taking it as a 90 degree straight line down....it doesn't happen that way. Thunderstorm(s) do not travel straight in RL so why would they in a game? It is meant to be an AoE attack based in on a downward casted act of nature.
Did you boycott X-men when Storm casted a thunderstorm and hit things behind a wall? No because it is following the rules of how a thunderstorm actually affects things.

I should have said 4 walls and a roof.
Sit in a room with 4 walls and no roof, feel the effects of a thunderstorm. Sit under a roof with no walls....feel the effect of a thunderstorm less the rain. Thunderstorms have, thunder, rain, lightning and wind. A roof with only 1 wall, comparable to the effect an umbrella has, could only block rain. Act's of nature do not follow LoS nor straight lines so designing a spell that simulates an act of nature shouldn't either.
Oh...and just fyi..I didn't say a roof would protect against meteor's...I said they hit from above. I sure as hell wouldn't count on my roof saving me from a meteor shower. :p
I didn't defeat my own argument. All one would have to do is look at the act of nature the thunderstorm spell is trying to simulate. What would a real thunderstorms components be able to damage and apply it to the the game. Damage from above at all different angles.
I have nothing to gain by defending a mage skill as a Priest. I have nothing to lose either other then the possibility of seeing RW take a suggestion and tamper with another thing that doesn't need fixing.

& so now we're to the point where we're claiming that thunderstorm is doing a 3 dimensional "cone-shaped" damage? In that it comes in at various angles from a large area at the top to focus on a smaller area below? Or are you suggesting that slight variances in the direction of the wind caused by disturbances in the atmosphere are redirecting the damage of the thunderstorm skill so they hit outside of the area in which the player is casting them.

Seriously?

Next you're gonna tell me shatterstar storm is doing 3 dimensional "star-shaped" damage because it has star in the name, and clearly that it was intended for these arrows to originate from extra terrestrial origins and thats why its ok to subvert line of sight dynamics with it.

This only further begs the question... where's my casting cone, and where's my UFO-bow?

I am waiting for the argument that Shadow Prison is broken because there is no way shadows can hold you down.

Quoted from "Amberwave;564053"

I am waiting for the argument that Shadow Prison is broken because there is no way shadows can hold you down.

Shadow prison obeys line of sight, and aside from the rubberband bug that currently exists with it during siege, it is otherwise functioning 100% completely.

Im not the one attempting to use irl justifications for the way skills work in the game. Im simply pointing out how silly such claims are.

What is being stated by yourself and others in this thread are far-out, and im talking way out in left field, claims trying to justify subverting the line of sight dynamic by damaging targets in through a solid objects without a line of sight.

My point is that there are skills in the game that are not functioning fully with the dynamics built into the game, and people are abusing these to gain advantage over other players.

Quoted from "Amberwave;564053"

I am waiting for the argument that Shadow Prison is broken because there is no way shadows can hold you down.

Your right...I don't have a skill to hold you down :p hmmm....maybe I should. New Thread!!!

Targeting the lip of a wall with TS is obeying LoS (same as a molotov, grenade, missile, all are AoE). I'm talking about the raised platform on either side of the gates where defenders can (with some LoS restrictions) attack the attackers. Walls are a defensive structure not an invulnerable structure. One should be able to attack from a wall & be attacked while on a wall.

Attacking through a wall should not be possible & beyond a wall should only be possible with siege engines, no matter on which side of the wall one stands.

Defensive towers should also obey LoS.

Area of Effect spells have NEVER been affected by Line of Sight. Using Area of Effect attacks has ment death when used in the wrong place. Thunder Storming Goddess in Kalin Shrine hits the mobs below, using Whirlwind Shield too close to the exit door in the "Box Room" in Grafu Castle will hit the mobs in the next room. Thunder Storm has been tested and the effect also hits targets above the casting circle. These are facts, I am sorry that they get in the way of your opinions.

Actually, in some places TS is affected by LoS. One example i can give is Clops, 3 mobs standing around a big cooking pot & TS will hit 2 but not the 3rd unless you take LoS into consideration when targeting, the pot will shield 1 of the mobs.

Its always seemed odd to me that a cooking pot can block TS but in many other places a wall, door or floor can't.

Quoted from "Amberwave;564116"

Area of Effect spells have NEVER been affected by Line of Sight. Using Area of Effect attacks has ment death when used in the wrong place. Thunder Storming Goddess in Kalin Shrine hits the mobs below, using Whirlwind Shield too close to the exit door in the "Box Room" in Grafu Castle will hit the mobs in the next room. Thunder Storm has been tested and the effect also hits targets above the casting circle. These are facts, I am sorry that they get in the way of your opinions.

*facepalm*

You still do not get the point.

Im not talking about the way skills currently work. We all know that in every aspect of ROM there is something that is not fully functional or fully implemented. Line of sight is one of them. I am talking about a dynamic that was introduced into the game by the game's developers, which is not currently fully functioning with all skills. A dynamic that is still in the process of refinement based on the continued actions of the developers. A dynamic which, through it's incomplete nature, has given a remarkable advantage to certain classes over others in PVP.

So the "facts" you pointed out are only "facts" in the sense that you cannot look at the all encompassing nature of ROM. The line of sight system is not complete, and because you can currently use the flaws in line of sight to hit mobs through doors and floors in instances does not mean it is functioning as intended. I think you've played ROM long enough to know THAT is a fact rather than opinion.

But you can go on coming up with wild outrageous examples with a perfect world of a fully functional ROM to try to justify exploiting line of sight flaws... so long as it helps you sleep at night.

Edit to add... Just because it "CAN" be done in game with the current game dynamics, doesnt mean it was intended to be done by the developers. Otherwise this game would have absolutely zero exploits in it's current form.