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RoM - Why do you allow some continue to play??

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Quaddro

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Friday, October 26th 2012, 5:26am

RoM - Why do you allow some continue to play??

I am confused because screen shots, video play etc have been sent reported about hackers in Siege from various people. Even in some the forums and through world chat you hear about one particular guild or even a particular player who "hacks". A good example how some can see through invisible towers when they do not have the ability to see such. Or whopping good one, be able to run faster then a fully buffed rogue and no related classes with a speed buff. I am confused because it takes the fairness out the game and fact everyone complains. Siege is a good aspect of the game and most relish the time to show off their equipment and OPness. It's the most frustrating thing to see how people are some able to by-pass the in-game mechanics just because they feel they want to be better. Siege is fun but after tonight, I may move on to new platforms for the reasons the people seem circumvent the game mechanics. Granted that 90% of people out there who do siege are fair and honest players but its that 10% that you always run into that drops the game rating very quickly. It's those who make it the game actually pretty crappy to play at times. Just IMO

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Friday, October 26th 2012, 7:44am

That's a good question.


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RoMage

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Friday, October 26th 2012, 12:47pm

Quoted from "Quaddro;575206"

Or whopping good one, be able to run faster then a fully buffed rogue and no related classes with a speed buff.


I am a bit lost here... fully buffed rogue runs faster then unbuffed?

There are countless threads about various pots/setups that can make character run faster then someone on mount, but I guess you did not bother to check them.

Some elites even allow to add to that, like for M/R >> Shadow Protection - Increases your casting speed by 1.0% for 900.0 seconds. If you receive a critical physical hit while it is in effect, your movement speed is instantly increased by 10.0% for 3.0 seconds.

Just calling someone a hax does not makes them hacker. Some folks know how to use their abilities/all given pots/food/buffs.

Ravesden

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Friday, October 26th 2012, 1:04pm

I can run faster than most rogues. All consumables/buffs.

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Friday, October 26th 2012, 1:10pm

Quoted from "Ravesden;575222"

I can run faster than most rogues. All consumables/buffs.




Did this happen because of your new epeen as of 10/9/12? rofl
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orphan3000

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Friday, October 26th 2012, 2:22pm

Also some classes like w/r have a perm movement buff from one of their skills and its passive. For seeing through invs towers, going to ask stupid question but were you invs with the buff (I have a guildy who has sometimes difficulty getting the buff under the towers). Also could just be an glitch like classes being able to see rogues in hide. I dont see many people that cheat, only one person in about last 5 months.

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Friday, October 26th 2012, 2:41pm

Quoted from "orphan3000;575234"

Also could just be an glitch like classes being able to see rogues in hide.

Scouts can detect hidden rogues and other classes that acquire any effect that turns them hidden. I don't know if it works on stuff like an Invis Pot though.
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Friday, October 26th 2012, 5:06pm

There is definitely something out there that allows you to see hidden rogues. I actually watched a player that was focused on me to then target a hidden rogue and proceed to follow him. The rogue was no where near the player so it wasn't a range thing, it also was not a scout. This is the first time I have ever seen a questionable act in siege and cannot explain it. I suppose I should have screenshotted it and submitted it but oh well.
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Nytefall

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Friday, October 26th 2012, 5:57pm

Quoted from "Quaddro;575206"

I am confused because screen shots, video play etc have been sent reported about hackers in Siege from various people. Even in some the forums and through world chat you hear about one particular guild or even a particular player who "hacks". A good example how some can see through invisible towers when they do not have the ability to see such. Or whopping good one, be able to run faster then a fully buffed rogue and no related classes with a speed buff. I am confused because it takes the fairness out the game and fact everyone complains. Siege is a good aspect of the game and most relish the time to show off their equipment and OPness. It's the most frustrating thing to see how people are some able to by-pass the in-game mechanics just because they feel they want to be better. Siege is fun but after tonight, I may move on to new platforms for the reasons the people seem circumvent the game mechanics. Granted that 90% of people out there who do siege are fair and honest players but its that 10% that you always run into that drops the game rating very quickly. It's those who make it the game actually pretty crappy to play at times. Just IMO


As other players in this thread have mentioned, some of these issues that you have described are completely legitimate behaviors, or can be done in legitimate ways - We must investigate these issues and prove it cannot have been done legitimately before we can take action.

We cannot, however, just take "It's common knowledge that so-and-so hacks" as proof of misconduct. Sometimes this is said by people who don't understand how they were beaten in Siege, and sometimes it is said by someone out to get a guild or an individual.

I've seen people go as far as duplicating their character and another character on a different server to frame someone for cheating.

All of this means that we have to investigate these reports thoroughly, and this takes quite some time. While we're aware that this sometimes makes it look like nothing is being done, I much prefer this to banning innocent players or banning people using clever tricks like stacking run-speed effects.

Some of the issues you've also described can be, and often are, caused by lag. In some cases, that player "seeing through your stealth" is right next to you on his screen, even though he's not anywhere near you on your screen. I'd much rather give a borderline player the benefit of the doubt, versus the alternative of banning an innocent player with a slow connection or a connection that is acting up. Realize that some night, your ISP may have issues, and this player could be you - the same investigations you find annoying today could prevent your account from being suspended in the future.

Please also note that reporting a whole guild for cheating is not very helpful - A guild tag is not always representative of the guild's members as a whole, and we cannot punish a whole guild for the actions of a few. Individual character names are necessary. Again, this rule protects you as much as it works against you - would you risk your account for ALL of your guild mates, even ones you have never spoken with or done anything besides Siege War with?

Ziav

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Monday, October 29th 2012, 7:44pm

Well I agree with the OP. I have been standing inside invis towers (with the buff) and have watched an opposing m/p cross the bridge, run directly at me, then from range cast flame at me. There is no legit way he could have seen me standing in the invis tower from that far away. I've also seen d/m popping in and out of invis repeatedly during combat. This may be lag, but is it really when the entire guild sees him doing it, then after talking with friends in other guilds about him, they've seen the same thing. These kinds of questionable tactics are much more common in the 1-2k points range.

In one siege with a guild in the 1-2k points range, there was a wd/s who would speed across the bridges, dismount, kill and remount all without moving. I know there isn't any legit way to do that. I've even tried it with my m/wl soul stepping ability and it doesn't work.

People may want to deny there are guilds/players who exploit mechanics or flat out cheat, but they are out there and it's not just a select few.

Bakken

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Tuesday, October 30th 2012, 6:54am

while Nytefalls post is valid there ARE individual 3rd party program users that have even been reported that still roam the server

even with strait up video which I even got some other guildies apologies for was proof enough for everyone else. If even their friends believe it and the staff don't there's a problem here.


bilalab

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Wednesday, October 31st 2012, 4:51am

Quoted from "Ziav;575521"


In one siege with a guild in the 1-2k points range, there was a wd/s who would speed across the bridges, dismount, kill and remount all without moving. I know there isn't any legit way to do that. I've even tried it with my m/wl soul stepping ability and it doesn't work.


can u clarify what u mean by not moving? i know there is a glitch that buggs the animation of the toon's legs and arms and show the legs as not moving but u can still c them move across the screen, just as if they where standing still. most of the time changing gear will fix it but most ppl dont have the luxury to switch gear and be with low hp in sw so they dont.

Dysantic

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Friday, November 2nd 2012, 9:17pm

The problem with much of this is what people consider hacking. I have been called a hacker numerous times while facing other guilds. I'd say I'm nearly an end game mage and many people in my guilds range (800-1k) haven't run into a mage as strong as me before so they resort to calling hacks.

I've found when someone is killed, especially someone strong who doesn't die very often in siege, they just start attributing these deaths to hacking or the fact that they don't know the class they are being killed by very well and can't understand what they are doing to survive or hit so hard. Holy aura for example, people were claiming I was hacking because I never took any damage while I was just casting Holy Aura every time I saw someone and pretty much 1 shotting them. It's not hacks, its just I know how to play my class and I know how to kill you.

Although I do agree about some of the things with people moving in odd manners (ie. stepping through walls or dropping inside towers) but some of those are more glitches than hacks. From my own experiences, even when my guildies think they are hacking, normally it can just be attributed to something in game that they just don't know about or dont understand. It has been a long time since I've seen someone blatently hacking in siege to win.

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Friday, November 2nd 2012, 9:45pm

Quoted from "Dysantic;576042"

The problem with much of this is what people consider hacking. I have been called a hacker numerous times while facing other guilds. I'd say I'm nearly an end game mage and many people in my guilds range (800-1k) haven't run into a mage as strong as me before so they resort to calling hacks.

I've found when someone is killed, especially someone strong who doesn't die very often in siege, they just start attributing these deaths to hacking or the fact that they don't know the class they are being killed by very well and can't understand what they are doing to survive or hit so hard. Holy aura for example, people were claiming I was hacking because I never took any damage while I was just casting Holy Aura every time I saw someone and pretty much 1 shotting them. It's not hacks, its just I know how to play my class and I know how to kill you.

Although I do agree about some of the things with people moving in odd manners (ie. stepping through walls or dropping inside towers) but some of those are more glitches than hacks. From my own experiences, even when my guildies think they are hacking, normally it can just be attributed to something in game that they just don't know about or dont understand. It has been a long time since I've seen someone blatently hacking in siege to win.


I think we've all heard this enough times to where its getting to be more of a dead horse than the issues of accusation.

The ability to determine some hacks from glitches depends on being first hand witness to the act of deviance in itself. If no one is there to witness first hand, for all we know it could be a hack or a glitch. No telling. But what difference does that make? None, cause the deed is done.
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Bakken

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Friday, November 2nd 2012, 10:55pm

Quoted from "Dysantic;576042"

The problem with much of this is what people consider hacking. I have been called a hacker numerous times while facing other guilds. I'd say I'm nearly an end game mage and many people in my guilds range (800-1k) haven't run into a mage as strong as me before so they resort to calling hacks.

I've found when someone is killed, especially someone strong who doesn't die very often in siege, they just start attributing these deaths to hacking or the fact that they don't know the class they are being killed by very well and can't understand what they are doing to survive or hit so hard. Holy aura for example, people were claiming I was hacking because I never took any damage while I was just casting Holy Aura every time I saw someone and pretty much 1 shotting them. It's not hacks, its just I know how to play my class and I know how to kill you.

Although I do agree about some of the things with people moving in odd manners (ie. stepping through walls or dropping inside towers) but some of those are more glitches than hacks. From my own experiences, even when my guildies think they are hacking, normally it can just be attributed to something in game that they just don't know about or dont understand. It has been a long time since I've seen someone blatently hacking in siege to win.


unless someone fly hacks in siege it's hard for a regular player to see. The only way to really prove hacks in siege is if your a rogue to see if others are targeting you though hide with the 3rd party program everyone knows about.

The point of this thread is asking why these people, who have even been caught on video (I have like 7+ hackers on fraps), are not getting banned even after tickets. If video isnt enough what do I need, a copy of their registry? wtf.


bilalab

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Sunday, November 4th 2012, 8:53pm

lol people just call "Hacker" and various other combinations that basically means "i think ur hacking" and rez up. serious dude if u thimk i'm hacking stay and talk and i'll gladly tell u what/how i did what u saw me do. just called hacker for no apparent reason then defending a tower against 2 r/s and a k/r with already placed fots and eyes in illusion, r/s goes hacker and rez.... we all lolz at him in raidcall.

and the thing is i'm a pure healer :-D
so they must be bad dps'ers ;-P

Ziav

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Monday, November 5th 2012, 4:41am

So when a warden/scout and see me from range hiding inside an invis tower, run straight at me on their mount, get off that same mount, kill me (still inside the invis tower) then remount all without ever stopping. I'm sorry THAT IS a hack. I know there are zero skills that allow anyone to mount up while they are moving. If any class could do it, it would be the mage/warlock combo with their soul stepping ability. I've tried it and no it does not work. So you can say people call hacks for glitches/bugs/whatever you want to call it, but there are and will continue to be people who use 3rd party programs to win at siege at any cost.

Personally I find it very very pathetic that some one has to resort to this kind of tactic. Maybe for them it gives them a false sense of accomplishment, but what it really does is make these same people believe they are better than they are. These kinds of people are the same ones who wipe parties because they think they are so much stronger than they are.

If you're going to participate in siege, then play within the rules. Rules don't mean putting trechs on gates. It means shooting through objects that you know are not meant to be able to attack. Just because you can, doesn't mean it's intended, use some common sense. It means using in game speed buffs. It means when someone is inside invis/hide you can not see them from across the map. Siege frustrates me as much as the next person, but I've always been on the mindset, if I lose a fair fight, great. If I win a fair fight, great. My guild did the best we could with who we had. What drives me crazy (and I'm sure everyone else) is when you lose to a guild you know is using shady tactics to win (even when they are out gunned and out numbered). Take the win or loss with everyone else, it's 1 hr at most, don't waste everyone's time by cheating to win.

RoMage

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Monday, November 5th 2012, 1:43pm

Last night I type something in SW, then note that letters are not there, couple seconds later they appeared just as typed...

Midway trough SW I crashed at rez point.

Afterward still had some funny things happening... (clicking skills and waiting for response...)

It is funny when does not work, you have fun when it does...

pazuzzu

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Monday, November 5th 2012, 4:58pm

lmao yea the chat servers are a different company (and location entirely i think) was funny back when there was 2 minutes of lag between clicking a skill and it firing in siege but no latency when i QQ'd about it in trade channel. guess say chat is siege only so on the poor trs-80 used for siege

i had a screenshot here somewhere of me taking Hilot....in Rhanka village NJF Oo

Dysantic

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Monday, November 5th 2012, 5:03pm

Quoted from "Ziav;576223"

If you're going to participate in siege, then play within the rules. Rules don't mean putting trechs on gates. It means shooting through objects that you know are not meant to be able to attack. Just because you can, doesn't mean it's intended, use some common sense. It means using in game speed buffs. It means when someone is inside invis/hide you can not see them from across the map. Siege frustrates me as much as the next person, but I've always been on the mindset, if I lose a fair fight, great. If I win a fair fight, great. My guild did the best we could with who we had. What drives me crazy (and I'm sure everyone else) is when you lose to a guild you know is using shady tactics to win (even when they are out gunned and out numbered). Take the win or loss with everyone else, it's 1 hr at most, don't waste everyone's time by cheating to win.


Here's another instance. Using trenches on the gates is not hacking, it's not cheating, there is nothing against the TOS when doing it. Although it is seen as a cheap way to drop a gate, it is still within the game mechanics. Everyone has the ability to do it, so why call people hackers or cheaters when they do it? It just makes no sense to me.

As for the claims of no one being banned or no reprocussions for hacking, thats up to the GM's and we all know they have a hard time doing anything in game other than the fail events they hold once a year. If its surprising you that nothing is being done, your in for a world of dissapointment if you keep playing ROM. lol
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