Runes of Magic US / AU

Removed egregious emotes -- Kalvan

there are classes/combos that are more efficient than rogue that have their own beneficial skills.. lol

This whole course of discussion has been talked out so many times. Look at the older rogue threads. look at the scout fix threads. The problem here isnt hide, hide is how the class is supposed to work.

The problem with rogues is the following: Scout is the natural counter to rogue. No one plays scout. There is no natural predator for rogues. Rogues run free. People CAN counter with eyes of true knowledge, but this takes merits away from other defenses. If you are fighting a guild of all rogues, eyes will obliterate them. If you're opposing team is more well balanced, the non rogues will take out the eyes. If your team is poorly balance (aka, has no scouts or tank type characters) you will be destoryed.

Quoted from "Darwec"

The problem with rogues is the following: Scout is the natural counter to rogue. No one plays scout. There is no natural predator for rogues.If you are fighting a guild of all rogues, eyes will obliterate them. If you're opposing team is more well balanced, the non rogues will take out the eyes. If your team is poorly balance (aka, has no scouts or tank type characters) you will be destoryed.

If you are fighting a guild of all rogues... Eyes will do nothing. They'll all pop escape and snicker at your eyes. The time it takes between engaging combat with 2 players, death, running back to the battlefield, and destroying undefended eyes usually equates to escape being off CD when they see a player near an eye.

Unless you can afford to cover the ENTIRE map with eyes, which is not likely. First off, you won't have enough players to defend each eye, which means most eyes are easy pickings. Second off, you'd have to dupe merits to get enough to be able to do that AND constantly replace destroyed eyes since number of eyes > number of players to defend each eye.

Scouts at the moment aren't that useful against rogues. 150 range on detection is nothing when Numbing Dagger has 300 range and a 12 second stun, more than enough to close the distance for that gentle 200k Lowblow (and new honor gloves cannot remove stuns - only old ones can. So if you trashed old one to wear new one, you're kinda screwed).

Even combo throw will destroy a scout, for the simple fact that rogues can target scouts in advance, so by 150 range when Scout sees rogue, Rogues are already casting CT while scout still has to react, target the rogues then attack. Or if you really want to have some fun, pop an invis pot as R/K and use the R/K 13 second stun on them (6.5 seconds against players, not broken by damage). You get to sit there and let the scout despair for 4 seconds before you kill him

Numbing dagger, 150 range, 10 second stun, 1 second cast time. Requires poison, can only be used on 1 player at a time, broken on damage
Strike of punishment 8.5 second stun (player or mob) 90 range. Can be resisted, can be absorbed, can miss.

Guess what kind of enemy a rogue can't see. A player in an invis tower with 1 eye. Or add electric towers as those hit rogues in stealth at a greater distance. No need to be spending all of your merits on eyes if you use everything to your advantage.

Seriously go play a rogue and fight someone who knows what they are doing. It's why certain rogues abandoned stealth and went straight for 300k+ hp.

Quoted from "sertet"

Numbing dagger, 150 range, 10 second stun, 1 second cast time. Requires poison, can only be used on 1 player at a time, broken on damage
Strike of punishment 8.5 second stun (player or mob) 90 range. Can be resisted, can be absorbed, can miss.

Guess what kind of enemy a rogue can't see. A player in an invis tower with 1 eye. Or add electric towers as those hit rogues in stealth at a greater distance. No need to be spending all of your merits on eyes if you use everything to your advantage.

Seriously go play a rogue and fight someone who knows what they are doing. It's why certain rogues abandoned stealth and went straight for 300k+ hp.

Might be on R/S then. I remember someone told me it was 300 range, and saw a recording where he was able to hit someone from an enormous distance.

13 second R/K I inferred since guildie can stun me for 6.5 seconds. If the stun is the same duration for both mob and player than it sounds bugged, because stuns should last half the time on players. 8.5 second stun... You get that hit off and you're guaranteed to kill pretty much anyone lol.

And not sure why you have to "abandon" stealth for HP. Unless there's an HP requirement where you can't use hide after you hit this amount of HP. I could see stacking HP though, because with Rogue's enormous crit damage, a 300k Rogue can still hit 100k easily. Whereas this wouldn't be as feasible on other classes, say, a mage, because a 300k mage would be reduced to 65k crits.

Towers still can't hit a rogue in escape.

r/s requires a bow or crossbow due to the 60 elite. only adds 30-50 range depending on the weapon. gear swaps become required to use throw/combo throw or to use scout based skills.

Depending on the class a stun of that length will either not be needed or not be useful enough. Most tanks have several abilities to break out of a stun, squishier classes it is best to go for a higher damage stun like sneak attack which will do more than twice the damage but then you run the risk of watching them port halfway across the map because of a stun.

There are much bigger problems that need to be addressed before hide is even looked into.

Quoted from "sertet"

Depending on the class a stun of that length will either not be needed or not be useful enough. Most tanks have several abilities to break out of a stun, squishier classes it is best to go for a higher damage stun like sneak attack which will do more than twice the damage but then you run the risk of watching them port halfway across the map because of a stun.

How so? Sneak Atk might be higher damage, but if you stun a player for 8.5 seconds... You have all the time in the world to one shot them lol. Unless you're trying to take on several opponents at a time and still expect to kill all of them. In which case, Kanches Rand will wipe the whole group, anyone not dead gets the 8.5 second stun.

Rogues also have several other stuns they can go through a rotation of and use attacks in between. For example, Numbing Dagger > Vanish > Sneak Atk> R/K 8.5 second stun > SP should easily wear out any stun removal skills tanks might have and still keep them stunlocked.

I may have misread that, but vanish and escape are not stuns... O.o

Quoted from "Cike"

I may have misread that, but vanish and escape are not stuns... O.o

You can't use Sneak Attack when you're in combat. Unless Numbing Dagger doesn't put you in combat, otherwise you'd need some method pop back invisible. Also, sneak attack has to be used from behind, and unless you're invisible, your opponent isn't going to face their back to you so you can follow up with SA.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

You can't use Sneak Attack when you're in combat.

r/p ftw....but yes, i see your point now...

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Also, sneak attack has to be used from behind, and unless you're invisible, your opponent isn't going to face their back to you so you can follow up with SA.

this doesn't mean anything, it's easy as heck to get behind the target...if you really have a hard time with it, pm me...

- numbing dagger puts u in combat
- numbing dagger is bugged for r/s since it ADDS the bow/xbow range with the skill range instead of using MAX. have already submitted corresponding bug report long ago and is ignored as usual
- stuns duration is half the time if used in pvp
- escape does not put u out of combat, so numbing>escape>sneakattack doesnt work

Quoted from "achilleas1"

- escape does not put u out of combat, so numbing>escape>sneakattack doesnt work

- stuns duration is half the time if used in pvp

I stand corrected

Took out escape from original post. Just vanish then.

Darn, that means I can't pop invis pot either when Rogue I'm fighting pops escape. Was hoping to try that.

And that's what I thought about stuns as well. But it seems like R/K stun duration is not halved during PvP. I think my R/K guildie will hate me forever if I submit bug report for that Highly doubt they'd fix it anyway though.

Notice whats funny ... People still scream nerf rogues. The only reason they want a nerf is PVP aspects. As in most nerfs People scream about. How many classes do you all have to scream to be nerfed and the class subsequently destroyed in PVP and more importantly then your silly SW .. PVE?

How many players are left that you are trying to make quit the game like the other nerfs to classes did?

but keep on with the QQ. Because you think all classes should have the exact same skills.

Quoted from "atriedies"

Notice whats funny ... People still scream nerf rogues. T

mmk.. I vote nerf Champion/mage then! Because a 600k HP tank that can hit for nearly 3 million damage with an AoE is a tiny bit too OP too

i'm only averaging a little over 2m on mine but it does have a 5m cd.

oh and its also something you can do at the gates. in siege. While it won't harm the gate at all. it does wipe out any player and tower in its radius reguardless of walls.

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Quoted from "atriedies"

Notice whats funny ... People still scream nerf rogues. T

mmk.. I vote nerf Champion/mage then! Because a 600k HP tank that can hit for nearly 3 million damage with an AoE is a tiny bit too OP too

That was a good siege noble

I have a devious macro in mind just wait muahaha

Quoted from "Bakken"

Quoted from "ruisen2000"

Quoted from "atriedies"

Notice whats funny ... People still scream nerf rogues. T

mmk.. I vote nerf Champion/mage then! Because a 600k HP tank that can hit for nearly 3 million damage with an AoE is a tiny bit too OP too

That was a good siege noble

I have a devious macro in mind just wait muahaha

Wait, you were that 600k C/M?

Honestly, I dread the day when people start playing that class en masse. Then all PvP gear, def, and siege upgraded def buff instantly becomes obsolete.

Sorry, been on vacation. My opinion still stands, scouts need a fix before any hide nerf is discussed. Nerfing hide right now would just be pointless. Eyes DO work. Yes, you have to have a lot, yes you need to keep people defending key points of the siege map. If you dont have enough people to do that, you were going to lose anyways.